Berkeley Audio Design Announces The Alpha USB Asynchronous Interface

<br />

<br />

"Ahem, with audiophile glasses on, maybe. Or maybe it was dCS. (?)"<br />

<br />

Audiophile glasses? Of course, and why not - the name of the site is computer audiophile. ;0<br />

<br />

<br />

But no, it was NOT dCS.<br />

<br />

<br />

For the record, Gordon showed his Cosecant USB DAC at CES in January of 2004.<br />

<br />

<br />

<br />

<br />

<br />

Another interesting read, about the history of Asynchronous USB<br />

<br />

http://www.diyhifisupply.com/node/856<br />

<br />

thanks...I'll check it out!<br />

<br />

Jesus R<br />

www.sonore.us

Lars, I have to apologize. Although I explicitly referred to "word games", I thought it would be clear enough that for me there's a difference in "can't believe" and "not true". Because you seemed to rephrase my "can't believe" into "not true" I thought you referred to the "not true" one liner, which is why I referred to this other anync USB device.<br />

So I guess I tripled over my own writing, which most certainly tried to differentiate between something I was sure about (not true) and something I wasn't sure about at all (can't believe).<br />

<br />

Call that silly, but I merely like to call it plain stupid (my side).<br />

Let me honestly add that I made two other major mistakes in my post, the first one already referring to a post you didn't write (but Clay did), and the next one by referring to "RAMDisk" which is not related to you at all. Too many names around. :-)<br />

<br />

Regards,<br />

Peter

Thanks for that clarification, I missed your first (and only other) post here on CA, which also pointed out that EMU USB DAC was asynchronous.<br />

<br />

I'll remember this one!<br />

<br />

As mostly a Firewire fan, I'm apparently not as aware of all the USB offerings as I had thought.<br />

<br />

OTOH, I don't usually consider the low cost "prosumer" audio devices worthy of consideration, despite that two of the three "DACs" I've ever purchased are pro audio devices (made by Metric Halo).<br />

<br />

EDIT: there's another point that I'd forgotten, so I'll add it here.<br />

<br />

"asynchronous" interfaces allow for the data flow to be controlled by high quality fixed frequency oscillators located in the DAC itself. This is their (i.e. async interfaces) primary benefit. When I think of an "async" interface from computer to DAC, this approach is bundled into it - it's part and parcel of it. This has been much discussed here on CA - indeed, it was proposed that we use a different word (than Async) to describe this approach, but Async was already in place and has stuck.<br />

<br />

I don't know who first implemented this approach over Firewire, only that Metric Halo did so in 2002. Interestingly, like eMU, they didn't make a big deal out of the asynchronous nature of their driver behaviour.<br />

<br />

clay

Thunderbolt from Intel: <a href="http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-12570323">http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-12570323</a><br />

<br />

"It is able to carry multiple signal types at the same time, enabling power, display and peripherals to use a single cable"<br />

<br />

Do you think this will be a better medium than usb or firewire?<br />

OTOH, I don't usually consider the low cost "prosumer" audio devices worthy of consideration, despite that two of the three "DACs" I've ever purchased are pro audio devices (made by Metric Halo).[End Quote]<br />

<br />

<br />

General meanings for prosumer:<br />

1. Producers or professionals using consumer-grade products.<br />

2. Consumers using retired professional-grade products.<br />

3. Consumer targeted products, at consumer prices, but containing some professional-grade functionality.<br />

4. Progressive consumer.<br />

<br />

Which meaning are you using and what prosumer audio devices do you feel are not worthy of consideration compared to typical consumer audio devices?

I'm very doubtful of the claim that Gordon was the first to implement USB in a DAC. I purchased my Stereo-Link USB DAC in 2001 and it was not the first on the market.

Gang,<br />

<br />

I did not create the first USB Class 1 Asynchronous device. I was the first High End company to do this way before anyone else did.<br />

<br />

dCS even said in their release @ RMAF that they were following my lead.<br />

<br />

Also look Thorsten is a great designer and those of us that know him enjoy his writing. But remember... anything on the web that is more than six months old is out of date!<br />

<br />

But really the big point I want to make and jump in at this point is that all you people are commenting on the Alpha USB without anyone even trying the damn thing.<br />

<br />

Come on... I am sick of getting calls from people who want me to tell them what this that or some other thing they should buy. This is not that complicated. Sure there is a lot of crap being said in this thread and others. But really it's not that hard. There are dealers out there selling this stuff... so before you open your pie hole, why not at least go out and try some of this stuff!<br />

<br />

Thanks for your bandwidth.<br />

Gordon

"...so before you open your pie hole, why not at least go out and try some of this stuff!"<br />

<br />

Perfect!

Great comment Gordon, I enjoyed it and it amused me greatly. I needed that this morning with all the April fool's pranks running around. <br />

<br />

However, let me gently point out, that it is not so easy to hear these great devices for most people, which is <i>why</i> people will ask you about them, read reviews here and other places, and work the internet to get every scrap of information they can. <br />

<br />

They will have the encyclopedic knowledge of your devices - and the competition - that is only possessed by those people passionately longing for something that is just out of their reach. They may drive you crazy. <br />

<br />

But it will happen as long as distribution and availability is limited. For example, I live 30 miles north of Austin- where within say, 50 miles can I go an listen to a Proton? Or even a 100 miles? <br />

<br />

Or a Berkely DAC? There is a dealer who carries Berkely in San Antonio (about 120 miles) however they apparently do not even have a storefront - not exactly a warm and fuzzy feeling. <br />

<br />

So in a way, you are not only pioneering with your DACs, but pioneering in how a small company can do innovative things, reach a worldwide targeted audience, and at the same time, be profitable. A lot of your success with that is, in my opinion, due solely to your accessibility - by internet, phone, and in person at some events. Not all, or even most of course, but a lot. <br />

<br />

I suspect that licensing out the your code is at least a profitable as the sales of your DACS, and that is also made more possible for you because of your internet reputation. <br />

<br />

You hear this type of thing all over the place, in conversations and on the net. "They licensed the Streamlength code? Probably worth looking at then!" <br />

<br />

It may seem that people are not "doing their homework" sometimes, but when people call you and ask your opinion, that is <i>exactly</i> what they believe they are doing. <br />

<br />

I think most folks appreciate it a lot. I do, even if I don't always agree with you. <br />

<br />

-Paul<br />

Assuming you just want to evaluate asynchronous USB/SPDIF converters, I count at least ten products and there may be more.<br />

<br />

Asynchronous USB to SPDIF Converters:<br />

<br />

1. Analog Research Technology – Legato $500<br />

2. Audiophilleo 1 $895<br />

3. Audiophilleo 2 $495<br />

4. Berkeley Audio Design $1695<br />

5. Halide Design – The Bridge $450<br />

6. John Kenny HiFace $410<br />

7. M2Tech HiFace $150<br />

8. M2Tech Evo $499<br />

9. Musical Fidelity – VLink $169<br />

10. Wavelength Audio – WaveLink $900<br />

<br />

Items 5 and 9 are both on the CASH List. All except the Berkeley converter are way less than $1000. Can anyone (whether end user, reviewer, competing manufacturer, or Berkeley designer) provide some compelling reason to try Item 4? Is anyone claiming that the most expensive asynchronous USB/SPDIF converter is sonically superior to all others on the list?<br />

Apparently, they're running a one-day special.

<br />

"Which meaning are you using..."<br />

<br />

The word 'prosumer' was in quotations and prefaced by the words 'low cost'. Combined, these were meant to convey that I don't consider the inexpensive audio devices offered to the so-called "prosumer" market of audio recording hobbyists (rather than pro audio engineers) as worthy of (my own personal) consideration in an audiophile quality setup.<br />

<br />

There are a number of such devices on the market, typically designed to offer a large number of features at the lowest possible cost, often with the goal of being the first to market with a new feature.<br />

<br />

In my experience, ultimate sound quality is rarely the goal or the result.<br />

<br />

YMMV,<br />

<br />

clay<br />

<br />

<br />

<br />

I'm not sure if you consider the Duet prosumer or low cost at $495 but as a A/D and D/A device, I think it does well.<br />

<br />

And if the new Duet2 at $595 lives up to expectations, it should also be very good for those wanting recording and playback capabilities.<br />

<br />

http://www.apogeedigital.com/products/duet2.php

I own #5 (Halide Bridge) and #9 (V-Link) on your list, and I plan to buy some version of #10 (Wavelength DAC) or #4 (Berkely DAC) soon.<br />

<br />

That still doesn't mean I can go out and HEAR a Wavelength or a Berkely anywhere around here - I can't. <br />

<br />

Spending $170 on a V-Link or $150 for an HRT streamer is not what I consider a serious financial risk. Not the least because if I buy them from Amazon and they turn out to be stinkers, I can send them back. (They are not stinkers - they are both great products. ) <br />

<br />

Spending $900 on a WaveLength Proton, or much more for the CoSecant I really want (despite the silly tube sticking up on the top!) is what I do consider a serious financial risk.<br />

<br />

Even given that I have heard and loved a Proton in my system for a couple hours, laying out the cash is a much more stressful descision. No dealer for support, no Amazon return policy, and $900 to $3500 does register with me a serious money. <br />

<br />

As I kind of pointed out, buying higher end audio site unseen is a risk - one that is mitigated by the openness of the community, and especially people like Gordon. Chris's reviews help a lot too, as to a lesser extent, do the reviews in the pubs like Stereophile. <br />

<br />

I sure miss Stereo Review. (*sigh*) <br />

<br />

-Paul<br />

"By 2015 (or sooner) a USB to SPDIF converter box will look like a cassette player- a Berkley USB to SPDIF converter box will just look like a nice Nakamichi cassette player"<br />

<br />

I agree, spending this much on USB to SPDIF box in a few years time will probably be redundant. But the Nakamichi cassette player still looks sexy sitting there.

Getting OT, sorry...<br />

<br />

<cite>The word 'prosumer' was in quotations and prefaced by the words 'low cost'.</cite><br />

<br />

Low cost doesn't necessarily mean low quality, nor high cost high quality. For example E-MU is now 40 years old company that has been designing synths and synth chips as such for ages, so they kind of know what they are doing. Most likely they can do affordable things these days, backed by Creative's production capabilities.<br />

<br />

Hand made things tend to cost a lot, even when not particularly "fancy". But at least I definitely see a value in something being actually hand made. Nice beautiful casings tend to cost a lot, there's definitely a value in beauty too. What also makes a difference is how much the people designing and actually producing the things get paid.<br />

<br />

So in the end it's about what one values. Is it just the sound quality, is it the build quality? Is it the fact that someone has actually made something by hand and what kind of compensation did that person get for his/hers time and effort? Was it done for passion or for profit? Is good sound quality only a privilege of the wealthy?<br />

<br />

There are just many aspects and points of view...<br />

<i>I own #5 (Halide Bridge) and #9 (V-Link) on your list...</i><br />

<br />

I have been extremely pleased with the V-Link in my system. The Halide was a bit over my current budget, but I was tempted, and have been curious about its performance. Is there some sort of comparative description you can give of the two?

With a decent USB cable on the V-Link, they both sound equally good to my ear. With anything but a really good USB cable, the Halide has a better sound. <br />

<br />

By equally good, I do not mean they sound the same though. They have a very different sound from each other. As odd as it may seem, I think I like the V-Link a little better for Acoustic and Orchestral stuff. I seem to prefer the sound of the Halide a little better for Rock, Pop, and Opera. <br />

<br />

Again, those are preferences, and there may be other influences at work, such as the DAC it is going into. <br />

<br />

-Paul<br />

<br />

P.S. I picked up the Halide used from Craigslist. A very good deal, but I have no idea of how it was used before. May "break in" on the system and sound even better over the next few weeks. <br />

My question remains simple and unanswered. With the goal of the best sound possible and least amount of devices and connections, wouldn't a Lynx sound card work as good or better than an extra device in the chain to get from USB to the DAC?<br />

In theory, yes, simpler is better. In practice, things are different. Especially with using an in-computer card -- a computer is a "noisy" place. Of course, my preference for an outboard is based on my own experience. Chris may have a different view and a different set of experiences.

amount of devices and connections, I would think that firewire out to a firewire DAC or USB out to a USB DAC would eliminate the need for an extra device.<br />

<br />

Now my personal opinion is that asynchronous firewire or asynchronous USB is best capable to offer the better sound, though the only fault I find with the Lynx AES16 and clock interface is the SPDIF that probably has higher levels of jitter.

Hi Oksana - You present an interesting question that can't be answered by anyone but you. The goal of best sound possible may include more or less pieces in one's chain depending on the system. At first blush meeting both your goals does seem to exclude using a device like a USB to S/PDIF converter. Best sound with least components. However a Lynx card is a component itself converting the audio stream to AES/EBU. Among other considerations we should weigh the pros and cons of an internal card in a noisy environment (objective measurement do show items like video cards causing big issues with even shielded internal cards) versus an external converter isolated from the internal noise of a computer but converting a very low jitter async USB audio stream to AES. <br />

<br />

The final answer must be made by each individual. I recommend finding a great dealer experienced with both methods and willing to lend you components. Trust me these dealers are out there. I talk to many of them frequently.

Makes the Auraliti look like an absolute bargain.<br />

Thunderbold optical will change the game soon also.