Recommendation for Digital Cable with BNC terminations (

[papageno]

Would like to get a "value Buy" digital cable with BNC terminations for connecting my USB/SPDIF to my DAC. Any consensus for good ones below $150.

Appreciate your input.

 

[ringenesherre]

Hi

 

You will be fine with any reasonable quality BNC-terminated 75 ohm coaxial video cable. I would recommend this one:

 

http://www.amazon.com/BNC-06-010-75-OHM-Coaxial-low-power-applications/dp/B003D87JOQ/ref=sr_1_27?ie=UTF8&qid=1320295513&sr=8-27

 

If this length does not suit your application (you are not specifying any length requirements), search for "bnc 75" and you will get a long list of options. Anything from a couple of bucks (for a short cable) to 25 bucks (for a 100ft cable) is ok. Coaxial cables are really cheap. And for a digital signal (be it word clock or a PCM stream), they will all be fine.

 

Cheers,

Peter

 

[bsn]

At the lower price point, Blue Jeans Cable, at the higher side of your price point the Analysis-Plus Digital Oval .5 Meter is at top rated digital cable. Both are available with BNC termination.

 

http://www.analysis-plus.com/prod_digitalcable.html

http://www.bluejeanscable.com/store/digital-audio/index.htm

 

 

 

[Mark Powell]

Any cable below about ten dollars will be good value. Do not be taken in by the 'smoke and mirrors' charlatans who manufacture expensive cables. Price and performance are not related.

 

>equipment varying between 200 and 9000 dollars per piece, joined together by 'generic' interconnects, speaker cable from the local car accessory shop.

 

[ringenesherre]

The Blue Jeans cables look good from a price/performance+customization point of view

 

Unless you have a REALLY old (> 10 years) or bad DAC, there is no point in spending money on the Analysis Plus snake oil crap. Even then, I would bet my money on investing the money in a better DAC.

Cheers,

Peter

 

[Mark Powell]

Some of the cables I made up using 75 ohm cable and BNC connectors from 'Radiospares', a UK supplier to the general electronic industry, are on the probe 'Voyager'. Thirty years and the farthest away a man-made item has ever got.

 

Still working.

 

[papageno]

Thanks for all the input. This forum is awesome. I would like to use the cable for connecting my EVO USB/SPDIF to Bryston BDA-1 with BNC terminations.

 

[analogshop]

I strongly urge you to consider the Black Cat Veloce I love it... http://www.blackcatcable.net/veloce.php

 

and....I have no personal interest in the product or in its success.......

 

[4est]

Chris Sommovigo is well known for his digital cable designs. Unless you are looking to spend big money, this would be it. As others have noted, video cabling would work too, but there is a difference beyond price.

 

I have no clue as to what the space craft Voyager has to do with anything audio...

 

[goldsdad]

"what the space craft Voyager has to do with anything audio..."

 

 

Not digital audio cables, but something audio: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voyager_Golden_Record

 

 

[barrows]

You cannot go wrong with Chris S. digital cables. The Black Cat is the best value in a BNC SPDIF cable out there.

Anyone who suggests that digital cables for audio do not matter, does not really understand how an audio data stream (SPDIF) is different from pure data transfer. This cable is transmitting an analog waveform, and the ultimate bandwidth of the cable will affect the rise time of the squarewave (ideally you want 0 risetime), a well designed/built cable will have higher bandwidth (infinite bandwidth=0 risetime). The closer the risetime is to 0, the lower the jitter caused by the cable.

 

[4est]

"I get a touch hacked off with this 'If you don't agree with me you don't understand' stuff."

 

Really, but do you understand? Barrows (as usual) stated it well. Mostly I chimed in because I felt I needed to represent the other "side".

 

[Mark Powell]

With respect to all the others, I think I have a great respect for 'Barrows', even though I don't always agree with him. At least, if I see an append of his I always read it.

 

Read my 'snake oil append again. I have put a few more things in for people to disagree with!

 

Don't really want to get so personal though.

 

[Mark Powell]

Nothing directly, but it used precicely the coax/BNC cables as he wants.

 

If a low-cost cable and connectors are good enough for a 30 year huge investment NASA mission then it should be good enough for the questioners purpose.

 

No need to buy high priced snake oil.

 

And such cables/connectors were used for many purposes before 'digital' was invented. Ours is pretty low speed digital too. And as Barrows says its an analogue signal. (A digital signal is an analogue signal with gaps in - sort of). Don't need a costly 'special purpose' one. Rise times? They are used at tens of Mhz, often hundreds - think of your TV aerial cable. If it makes you feel better, use one with an open 'air cored' insulator, which is no more expensive off the reel than a solid one. Can't imagine it would make any difference. Best cable is a short one. One UK manufacturer producing active systems says "We put the DACs in the speaker cabinets as it reduces jitter." Never heard such utter nonsense. Real reason is that if you go from their small speaker to their big one they get to sell you two more DACs.

 

I get a touch hacked off with this 'If you don't agree with me you don't understand' stuff.

 

 

[4est]

More personal than snake oil and charlatans. Hmm, I suppose I should get back to work then!

 

[Paul R]

I get a touch hacked off with this 'If you don't agree with me you don't understand' stuff.

 

Isn't that just a touch like the pot calling the kettle black?

 

Honestly, we all feel that way to some degree, but none of this is all that important that we all have to agree with each other, is it? It isn't life or death, and half the fun is getting to debate with people who disagree with you.

 

Heck, you might even wind up changing your mind!

 

-Paul

 

 

[The Computer Audiophile]

I have a Wire World BNC cable that was shipped with my Proton. It's a great cable. I also have a three meter AudioQuest BNC cable that is a great cable. I have yet to try ordering one from Redco.com but it's on my to do list.

 

 

Mark - Thanks for adding the information about the NASA mission. It's interesting stuff but may actually counter your opinions. NASA needed components that would last the test of time not necessarily components that are the ultimate in performance (the two don't always go hand in hand). Somewhat like the Spectral DMC 15SS preamp's volume fader that is accurate and lasts some ungodly number of revolutions.

 

I know we are not talking about cars and I usually don't like these analogies. However, I'm using this for illustration not a 1 to 1 analogy as cars are very different from digital wires.

If I were to drive a single car for 30 years I'd look for the most reliable. If I were driving a car in quarter mile races on the weekends I'd look for a car that would last the weekend, could be repaired over the week, and performed the best longevity be damned.

 

Thanks for not going personal. That keeps this wonderful hobby out of the gutter and still fun :~)

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Mark Powell]

That's not personal. No more than if I say 'The BBC produces a lot of rubbish television'. And you think a company selling 30,000 dollar speaker cables is being totally honest? Somewhere on here (as far as I can remember, but may not be) I saw that the outer of one of these thick speaker cables was a piece of garden hose. As the buyer found out when he took it apart.

 

[Mark Powell]

Sure - it would be terribly boring if we all agreed. The site would probably close.

 

It's even happened to me As a result of what I read here I am off for an earwig of a McIntosh and an Audio Research amp next week.

 

Thank you, site, for making me think about such things.

 

Thank you rather less for leading me into spending several thousand dollars more than I intended!

 

[barrows]

Sorry to get "personal", no offense is intended, and it is OK if we disagree!

 

BTW, I am not recommending, super high dollar, digital (SPDIF) cables here. Just a good, well designed and constructed 75 ohm, BNC terminated cable (with true 75 ohm BNCs, for some strange reason some manufacturers use 50 ohm connectors!). I have no experience with super expensive digital cables (above $300 or so). But I do have experience with Chris Sommavigo's (Chris, sorry if I misspelled) designs (Kimber D-60, Illuminati, Stereovox, Black Cat) and these cables consistently outperform random 75 ohm cables from no name sources.

I do not know if $1000+ digital cables ahve anything more to offer (and I kind of doubt it, but without experience, I woudl not say it is impossible). I recommended a reasonably priced cable, within the OP's budget, which is a known excellent performer.

I have also DIYed some 75 ohm cables from various mil spec 75 ohm, FEP coax, and Amphenol 75 ohm connectors, which worked as well as a Black Cat, but the parts cost plus labor hardly made the DIY cable a better deal considering the cost of the Black Cat (good mil spec, FEP, 75 ohm cable is around $10 a foot if you can find it, a handful of more dollars for connectors, a lot more money for a good crimp tool, and then figure a couple of hours of labor for sourcing the parts and build time and the Black Cat looks like a very good deal).

 

[4est]

Add I2Digital to the list of Chris' accomplishments.

 

[ringenesherre]

Dear barrows,

 

I would appreciate if you could tone down your writing a little bit. You make your personal opinion stand out as absolute truth.

 

One harmless example: You write that "The Black Cat is the best value in a BNC SPDIF cable out there." This is clearly your opinion, but I guess there is quite a few people who would disagree. I for one think that any BNC cable of the right length with normal quality connectors costing 10% of the Chris S. cable represents better value in BNC SPDIF cables.

 

Now I am guilty of the same when I'm looking at what I wrote above. I wouldn't bother to point out such a case of misrepresenting opinion as fact if it were not for the second part of your comment.

 

You write that "Anyone who suggests that digital cables for audio do not matter, does not really understand how an audio data stream (SPDIF) is different from pure data transfer." This is again your opinion, but I happen to know quite a few people that are counterexamples to your claim - including me.

 

I don't advertise this in web forums, but I happen to have a phd in computer science and I have taken master level courses on digital signal processing as part of my master specialization. I understand in detail how AES and S/PDIF are working - both on the level of the digital protocol and on the level of the signal transmission. I understand that for example the theoretically infinitely steep transition from low state to high state of a square wave is in practice a steep ascent typically overshooting the high state and then settling to approximately the voltage representing the high state.

 

I also acknowledge that cables have the potential to further distort the analog signal representing the digital signal. This can very well increase the inconsistencies (both random and systematic ones) regarding the distance between two transitions. In other words, the recovered clock signal can exhibit a higher level of jitter.

 

However, in my opinion, any decent jitter rejection scheme as implemented by state of the art DACs (or even previous generation ones) should reduce the jitter to a level below audible influence on the analog output. Thus, I reject the idea that we need USB cables and other digitial cables costing hundreds of dollars.

 

In any case, if a system really exhibits sound problems that can be traced back to jitter, I would not be investing hundreds of dollars into a cable for a at best minimal improvement. Instead I would invest in either a DAC with a better jitter rejection scheme or in a reclocking device.

 

A final comment regarding bandwidth. For coaxial cables this is easily in the range of 100s of MHz for even cheap cables over longer distances. Increasing this by a factor of 10 or so might be possible by elaborate shielding etc. The influence on the distortion level of the analog signal should by all means be very small, though.

 

Cheers,

Peter

 

[4est]

With all due respect, Barrows owns a DAC with a really well done re clocking scheme, and he (and I) have together noticed significant changes with changing the source jitter. You may reject the notion, but that does not make it true - no matter what your education level. There are people on this forum whom work with and for DAC manufacturers that would agree with him. They work with this stuff every day in reality, not theory. My experiences mimic his closely...

 

[dallasjustice]

I read somewhere that it is better for digital s/pdif cables to be 1.5m or more. The theory is that a really short s/pdif digital cable can produce more jitter inducing reflections.

 

 

 

[Paul R]

That actually used to be a problem back when we had thick Ethernet cables, running at, by today's standards, a very slow speed. (1mbs, etc.)

 

With the frequencies we run in cable today, it isn't much of an issue.

 

I often wonder why coaxial cables are still preferred over twisted pair cables though. It would, on the surface, seem to make much more sense in Audio applications.

 

 

-Paul