NAD DAC shown at CEDIA - with HDMI inputs

[rgbyhkr]

Interesting new DAC from NAD shown at CEDIA:

 

From Twice:

"Also to the Master Suite, NAD is adding the $1,600 M51 Direct Digital DAC, which can be paired with the M3 integrated amp. The 35-bit 844kHz DAC supports HDMI digital audio and the newest USB codec for 24- bit 192kHz audio transmission. It can act as a digital preamp because it features multiple inputs and DSP volume control. Features include USB ports for connection to PCs and USB sticks, two stereo-only HDMI inputs, and an HDMI output with 3D passthrough. "

 

 

From SoundstageLive:

"NAD also showed the M51 Direct Digital DAC that has a bevy of features including: upsampling to 844kHz; a digital volume control that "does not truncate bits"; AES/EBU, S/PDIF, TosLink, USB (asynchronous 24/192), and HDMI inputs; and one 3D-capable HDMI output (to be able to pass the incoming HDMI signal along to a video component). NAD claims the M51's signal-to-noise ratio exceeds 130dB and that the jitter is unmeasurable. The M51 is $2000 and, like the M50 and M52, will be available in November."

 

 

Front:

http://www.hifiklubben.com/images/products/big/NADM51SI_1.jpg

 

Rear:

http://api.ning.com/files/vFqSw2mW8SMCr11y4yPOxZxSKrOBMiLx2KU9mYvH1i47N83WWZ0eqJM5ke3HIlfLw4gzE4S3Zr9IXDrdGCpVaD7SGNyVetPN/DSCN0145.JPG

 

 

 

[nigel]

Interesting. Looks like the new M51 DAC incorporates some of the technology from the M2 Direct Digital Amplifier, which also has the 35bit lossless digital volume control.

 

[The Computer Audiophile]

NAD has licensed Streamlength asynchronous USB from Gordon Rankin of Wavelength Audio.

 

 

 

[rgbyhkr]

This unit looks very, very interesting. Anyone know what chips it's using and if the upsampling can be disabled if the user chooses? Also, I'd be interested in seeing the extent of the front display interface (you figure with direct playback of USB devices, it must be pretty extensive). Alternatively, if anyone has a contact at NAD these questions could be posed to, that would be helpful.

 

Jeff

 

[vortecjr]

as far as I can tell. I wonder if DSD bit stream is supported via the HDMI input...

 

Jesus R

www.sonore.us

 

[HiFiInsider]

HDMI is pointless if it doesn't accept pure DSD signal form HDMI SACD players.

 

[konoyaro]

It would be great if this DAC handles DSD but none of their receivers or pre-pros have offered this feature in the past. Fingers crossed though...

 

[Wavelength]

Chris,

 

NAD has licensed Streamlength asynchronous USB from Gordon Rankin of Wavelength Audio.

 

Actually I had nothing to do with that unit. I am not sure where they are getting their 24/192 solution from.

 

Thanks

Gordon

 

[rgbyhkr]

So I got some additional details back from NAD about this unit. Amongst the tidbits included:

 

- $2000 MSRP in the US

- PCM over HDMI, no DSD support

- Reports about playback from USB thumbdrives are incorrect. The M51's USB port is only for software upgrades. The M50 device does have that functionality though.

- While Gordon's solution has been used on other units, it was not used for the M51. No information on what was used instead, but confirmation of "...192kHz sampling and uses asynchronous mode..."

- Upsampling is not optional.

 

Jeff

 

[Audio_ELF]

Im surprised no one mentioned another interesting device from NAD at CEDIA - a wireless DAC connected to computer via USB. Maybe too low end for you all...

 

http://www.hometechtell.com/technologytell/article/nad-introduces-wireless-dac-1/

 

Out of interest what else has NAD announced (the units which do perhaps use Gordon's code)?

 

Eloise

 

[rgbyhkr]

I was told that he MDC DAC and C 390 use Gordon's software. As for the wireless DAC1, I think that's a matter of preference whereby some folks would prefer a wired over wireless connection. Also, while the article could be wrong, it states that it transmits 16/48. So, it may not natively support high res files up to 192.

 

Jeff

 

[Audio_ELF]

I'd not come across any mention of the C390DD nor the MDC DAC module...

 

Eloise

 

[rgbyhkr]

From an NAD Pre-CEDIA Press Release (8/25/11):

 

"C 390DD ($2600) is a Direct Digital DAC Amplifier featuring 2 X 150 Watts and a built-in high quality DAC delivering 35 bit 844kHz up-sampling digital conversion. The amplifier features Digital PowerDrive as well as Digital Soft Clipping with no analog circuitry for wide dynamic range and lifelike detail. C 390DD also features NAD’s MDC (Modular Design Construction) with three MDC bays for ample upgrading in the future.

 

MDC DAC ($250) adds digital inputs to the NAD C 356BEE or C 375BEE integrated amplifiers significantly upgrading the sound of disc players and music streamers. The DAC replaces the DISC input. A USB input allows for direct connection of a PC or MAC. No special software is required however professional installation is recommended."

 

C 390DD Front:

http://www.soundstageglobal.com/images/igallery/resized/201-300/nad_c390dd-230-675-450-90.jpg

 

C 390DD Rear:

http://www.soundstageglobal.com/images/igallery/resized/201-300/nad_c390dd2-231-675-450-90.jpg

 

Jeff

 

 

[rgbyhkr]

So there were a couple of additional tech details I got that I don't know what to make of.

 

In response to asking if the M51's upsampling can be bypassed:

"No this is integral to the DAC processor. The M51 is not a 'normal'

DAC it uses a 108MHz master clock with high precision conversion of PCM

to PWM with an 844kHz sampling rate. This completely eliminates jitter,

not just static jitter, but dynamic jitter as well."

 

In response to asking what DAC chipset the M51 includes:

"We are using the NAD/Zetex DDFA chip. This is NOT a traditional DAC

chip.

 

It is far more sophisticated with higher levels of precision than other

DAC chips"

 

This is wading far beyond my very limited technical understanding in this area. Obviously, every company feels that their own solution is superior to others available but I have no idea what the above means practically - and whether it solves certain problems and/or introduces new ones. Anyone care to chime in?

 

Jeff

 

 

[rgbyhkr]

Ok, now I think I have it. I believe the M51 is the DAC and volume control sections of the existing M2 unit. I don't know that they are 100% the same, but the suggestion seems to be that. As such, it will be interesting to see how the M51 performs when paired with an analog amplifier vs. the amplification tech used in the M2. NAD has a white paper on the M2 which has sections covering the D/A and volume control which likely also apply to the M51. You can find that here:

 

http://nadelectronics.com/download.php?100218092123-M2-white-paper-EU-Web.pdf|White%20Paper%20-%20M2%20Direct%20Digital%20Amplifier

 

Jeff

 

[nigel]

@rgbyhkr

 

From the answers you received, it seems the the M51 is basically an M2 with a traditional line-level output. The M2 eliminates the need for separate analogue power amplification by doing the analogue to digital conversion at speaker power levels. This has huge benefits for the overall sound, as they can eliminate noise and distortion from all sources (power supply, EMI, RFI) by their DDFA (Direct Digital Feedback Amplification) method described here:

 

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/content/NAD-M2#comment-57564

 

Now it looks like they have released a version of the technology for people who are not ready to replace their traditional power amps, by replacing the M2's speaker-level output with the M51's line-level output.

 

As a DAC, I believe this will be one of the best sounding DACs out there. But an M2 will always beat an M51 plus traditional analogue power amplification, because the traditional analogue amplifiers will still suffer from all the noise sources that they always do (see all the threads here about different sounding USB cables, music players, operating systems etc. etc) without the M2's ability to cancel it out via DDFA.

 

[rgbyhkr]

Thanks Nigel. You can see I had my Eureka moment likely while you were composing your post. That information is extremely helpful and serves to confirm what I was thinking about the partial use of the complete M2 solution resulting in only the partial benefit. That being said, if someone is looking for a DAC to pair with analog amplification, the latter's weaknesses will exist regardless of what DAC you choose. So, it'll be interesting to see how the M51's sound compares to other DACs available when paired with an analog amp.

 

Jeff

 

[esimms86]

"This completely eliminates jitter,

not just static jitter, but dynamic jitter as well."

 

 

This is not a criticism nor am I refuting what was posted. I'm not an engineer but I have always been told that it is impossible to completely do away with jitter. I have heard of very low jitter but not a complete absence of jitter. Am I misunderstanding something or does this DAC, in fact, achieve that elusive goal?

 

Esau

 

[firedog]

Auditioned one, and wasn't impressed. And I really wanted to be, b/c I loved the concept. So saying "But an M2 will always beat an M51 plus traditional analogue power amplification" is a stretch.

 

One thing I've learned in years of auditioning audio: there's what's on paper and what SHOULD sound good, and then there's the actual sound.

 

I found the M2 lacking in "life" and didn't have the punch that some traditional DAC + amp setups had.

 

[firedog]

You are right. Despite oft repeated claims, you can't "completely eliminate" jitter.

 

[realhifi]

"One thing I've learned in years of auditioning audio: there's what's on paper and what SHOULD sound good, and then there's the actual sound.

 

I found the M2 lacking in "life" and didn't have the punch that some traditional DAC + amp setups had."

 

Amen to that. I can not count how many times I have found that things on paper are just that...on paper. There is NO substitute for listening. After all, it IS what we are all doing with all this I am assuming, listening to music?

 

 

[rgbyhkr]

Video of Greg Stidsen from NAD talking about the M51:

 

 

 

 

[Paul R]

Yowza! Now this is more along the lines of what I expected from NAD, not the C446 player they came out with a month or two ago!

 

At $2500, the M50 is not cheap, but it is not overboard expensive either. Have to see how it compares to the Auraliti.

 

Thanks for posting that link.

 

-Paul

 

 

[Snowman]

I´ve listened to the M2 mostly with Sonos ZP90 and Classe CDP202, and i have come to the conclusion that i have bought the wrong rig:(

 

The M2 is a monster amp if i had bought it i would have been able to buy a pair of B&W 802:s instead of 804:s wich i bought with my Classe CA2300 and my Lyngdorf DPA 1.

 

The M2 beats my current rig in almost all areas, especially the resolution, speed, dynamics, depth and above its silent, when i say silent i mean put your ear very close to any element put the volume to max and hear the sound of nothing!

 

Very very annoying, i ám going to Audition the M51 and the M50 and see if can bring som of above mentioned abilities to my current rig.

 

 

 

 

[Snowman]

I´ve actually ordered one, i will get it att the end of November.

 

If it performs the way i think i will, it will change peoples perceptions to whats considered value for money.