Simple home networking question

[wgscott]

I decided to take Ted_B's advice and use a wired network connection to my Airport Extreme wireless router.

 

I currently have a DSL modem that negotiates and holds a connection to ATT (such as it is).

 

There is a single LAN port, so I have an ethernet cable that goes from the DSL modem to my Airport Extreme wireless router. The router operates in bridge mode, meaning the DSL modem allocates local IP addresses to everything else on the network, including the wireless router itself. In addition to the 10 or so wireless devices that connect to the router, I also have a wired device (a thingie that collects data from my solar panels, so I need to keep it). The wireless router has one each of of an in/out ethernet port, so if I want to add more wired devices, I need a switch (or a DSL modem with a built-in switch). I bought a switch and it just arrived.

 

Logically, there are only two options that I am aware of:

 

 

 

1. DSL modem wireless router switch Mac Mini AV server

 

2. DSL modem switch wireless router Mac Mini AV server

 

 

 

I decided to try configuration #1 first, since most of my devices connect to the wireless router, and I also need that to have a speedy connection to the DSL modem. But is there any penalty for using configuration #2? I thought if I wired my Mac Mini, which is my audio/video server, directly into the wireless router rather than the switch, I could speed wireless remote video and audio streaming over my local network (and turn off the Mini's internal airport card), in which case maybe #2 is a better idea?

 

[realhifi]

Modem, switch, router.

 

[Audio_ELF]

Surely...

 

Modem --> Router --> Switch

 

Connect all your wired devices to the switch and a single port back to the router.

 

Eloise

 

[wgscott]

I knew this would happen.

 

My guess is either would work ok, but the appeal of #2 is that nothing comes between the mini and the wireless router. I occasionally stream audio and video and sometimes get drop-outs, so I am thinking replacing the wireless route from the mini to the router with the most direct, un-switched connection possible has an appeal.

 

My DSL connection is about an order of magnitude slower than my internal home wireless network.

 

[The Computer Audiophile]

Eloise is correct. Connect all wired devices to the switch with a single cable back to the router and a single cable from the router to the modem. There are a (at least) couple reasons for this.

 

1. Using a switch connected directly to the modem may require more IP addresses than the single address your ISP grants you.

 

2. All your wired traffic can traverse through the switch without going through the router.

 

 

 

[1audio]

Connecting to the internet is risky without. The Airport has one as do all home gateway routers. Most cable/dsl modems do not (or have it switched off by the provider to avoid support/giving anything away that can be charged for).

 

[nigel]

If you can, I would find out how to change the DSL modem to work in bridge mode, and have your Airport Extreme router deal with NAT and DHCP.

 

Which Airport Extreme do you have? Recent ones have at least 3 LAN ports, and a built in switch, so you wouldn't need to buy a separate switch.

 

[Paul R]

Bill- I would recommend you switch your Airport Extreme to "share a public IP address" and let it serve up IP addresses inside your home network. Not only does this give you more security, but you can have at least 254 devices in your home network without any issues.

 

The DSL modem would plug into the WAN port on the Airport Extreme.

You can use the 4 additional ports on the Airport Extreme with or without switches attached to them as you need.

 

Using an Airport Express is much easier then- set it to "extend a wireless network", give it your network password, and Bob's your uncle. Hook up a cable to the Airport Express ethernet port, and either plug it into a device or into a switch. You have then used the wireless network to bridge the wired network.

 

If you need to access machines inside your network from outside, that's pretty easy to do as well with the Extreme.

 

DSL ---> AirPortExt. WAN port ))))) wireless (((( Airport Express ----> ethernet

...............................+-----> Ethernet Port 1

 

...............................+-----> Ethernet Port 2

 

...............................+-----> Ethernet Port 3

 

...............................+-----> Ethernet Port 4 --> Switch -->>>

 

 

 

 

 

[wgscott]

@Paul and Nigel: I've had it both ways (DSL as bridge, Airport extreme as bridge).

 

I don't have the most current Extreme. It only has one port out. If it had 4 (I guess the new ones do?), then I wouldn't need or want the switch.

 

The modem is 3rd-party and has a good firewall, as does the Extreme. The software is a web-based interface and it actually works quite well.

 

My previous Airport Extreme was given to me in 2004 by an Apple sales rep, since I have been such a slobbering fan-boy. I had it allocating the IP addresses. It finally died. When I set up the new one, Apple's set-up software actually forced me to set it up in bridge mode. My sense is it actually works much better to have the modem do the interaction with ATT and have the Airport Extreme do the bridge work, in the sense it is more stable. In any case, I've done the experiment, and everything seems to behave identically in either configuration.

 

Now, my first impression of turning off the wireless card in the mini is that .... I can hear no difference. However, streaming music to my ATV2 works much much better. I streamed the largest file I could find, and had no drop-outs, even while simultaneously streaming a movie from the mini onto my iPad. So I guess that means I am going under the house again to play hide the wire.

 

[wgscott]

Thanks. I hope you won't think I am being difficult...

 

1. The DSL modem allocates the same local IP addresses regardless of which configuration I use.

 

2. The only significant wired traffic will be from my Mini to my Airport Extreme, which would then be used for streaming audio and video, so it is the simplest signal path for the one connection I care about the most.

 

[souptin]

I think the weak link may be the speed of the wireless networking using the older Airport unit. Certainly I found that most of my dropouts went away when I gave my flying saucer Airport to my brother-in-law and replaced it with a square one. However I'm not sure that you'll see an enormous difference between plugging the mini into the Airport versus plugging it into the switch, unless you have other wired computers connected to the switch (I'm guessing the switch will do 1000base-t wheras the old Aiports were limited to 100base-t).

 

[wgscott]

I did replace it. The original one was from 2004. I just got the new square one about a year ago. Enormous improvement.

 

[souptin]

So much for that particular theory then. I was sure the square airports always had three ethernet lan ports, which would have spared your buying another switch, etc. Unless you wanted to hard wire more than three things of course.

 

[wgscott]

Whenever I buy something from Apple, a new one comes out in 3 days. So what I have only has the one port (well, one in, one out). I only have one thing that needs to be plugged in, and two more that are optional (a distant office computer and as long as I am at it, the Mac mini music server).

 

I could also buy a DSL modem with 4 ports. Each of these corresponds to one of my two possible configurations for switches, except the switch is simply internal.

 

[Jud]

The modem is 3rd-party and has a good firewall, as does the Extreme. The software is a web-based interface and it actually works quite well.

 

I always like the extra security that NAT provides, so assuming the modem doesn't do that, if I were you I'd choose the configuration that has the router between the Interwebs and all the rest of your stuff. But you're not me, so feel free....

 

[Paul R]

You must have an Airport Express, with only one ethernet port? A year ago, all Airport Extreme Base Stations would have have 4 ethernet ports on them. In fact, make that 8 years ago.

 

Now this makes more sense.

 

-Paul

 

 

[wgscott]

I don't think the modem has that bad security. At least it took me quite a while to "break in" from the outside when I was trying to open a port for ssh. However, the overwhelming opinion is to use configuration #1 (both from here and from network people I asked, and it was my first idea). Now that I know #2 works, I'll take the 15 seconds required to swap around the wires.

 

When I started to think more about option #2, I was impressed with the benefit of having the most direct path between the mini and the wireless router. But that is assuming that going through a switch would have a deleterious effect, which is probably an ignorant and unwarranted assumption.

 

 

 

[Jud]

the overwhelming opinion is to use configuration #1

 

BTW, you do have a reasonable password required to control your router, don't you?

 

[wgscott]

You mean, does it have a good long combination of profanity and non-ascii characters?

 

[Jud]

You know profane passwords are way high in all the better "rainbow tables," don't you? :-)

 

[realhifi]

Pic should show I hope...

 

[wgscott]

They have to get through two firewalls with two different passwords and then ipfw on the computer, assuming they can even get into that, since I use ssh keys.

 

 

 

[wgscott]

This is embarrassing: It turns out that my newish (maybe a year old?) Airport Extreme has four ports (3 out, one in) on the back, so I never needed the switch. I have exactly the number of ports I need. Oh well, I am sure I can find some other use for the switch.

 

Sorry I wasted so much typing and bandwidth. The scary thing is I looked four or five times and never processed it. I even ordered a switch from Amazon.

 

So what I have corresponds to scheme 1, with a built-in switch.