Complete system at less than 2.5k $ - could you do better ?

[DuckToller]

This system showed up in my timeline today:
- Klipsch RP600M II @ 749$

- Marantz PM7000N @ 1199$

- PRO-JECT T1Phono SB Turntable @449$

Would you think thats legit?

I remember that system with the Magnepan LRS and a VERY  expensive phono-preamp (ear?) a year ago, or two. However, The LRS has a new edition, which may perform better on the ASR testbench than the predecessor.

We have seen the 4k with a phono pre amp here this spring, but could you do better than above?
How do you see the options to create a 2.5k $ system which could be interesting for newbies?
As they often ask here, I've chosen the Q&A section for that topic.
Let the systems fly in ... ;-)
Cheers, Tom

[galwaycolin]

13 hours ago, DuckToller said:

Actives are speakers with one or more amplifier integrated in the chassis driving the transducers directly, usually without a passive crossover. Nowadays (for the budget!)  the Xover for the frequencies / drivers is provided digitally. Advantage, you can use digital sound processing that allows the designer theoretically to "perfectly" pair amplifier and transducer / speaker design  Disadvantage, a 3 way floorstander i. E  may have to integrate a lot of technology and can be heavy & expensive.

About digital technology:

Streaming: like Radio or Jukebox over a paid subscription service over internet in CD or  better quality.

AIO - all in one unit vs separate units for different tasks. Think about pro/con  single chassis/power unit vs many, failure vs. easy exchange.

Hdmi arc: technology for transferring sound from/to tv in higher quality

HP amp - headphone amp

Phono preamp amp - necessary if you have a MC system in your Linn..

Ask for more but please let us know what you don't know.

Cheers,Tom

 

 

Thanks Tom for taking the time to explain this stuff to me! 
 

 

[firedog]

10 minutes ago, galwaycolin said:

 

Getting back to your question: the space I plan I putting this system in is pretty big so floorstanders would be ideal, but my budget is saying standmounts!

There are some good floorstanders in you price range. 

Polk, Magnepan, Elac, Emotiva, PSB, Wharfdale, Klipsch, Golden Ear, etc.

[DuckToller]

1 hour ago, galwaycolin said:

Would you mind pointing me to the smls DAC you mentioned above pls?

 

Also, I’m afraid I don’t understand what

‘That might be important for you if you can hear differences between an ESS 9038q2m in double config vs an ESS9023 DAC chip. If you can't, why not start with the 9023?’ means. Would you mind elaborating? Thx much!

 

Oh and thanks for the recco for the Cyrus One Cast. I will put it on the ‘to research’ list! 

1) SMSL DO 100, if you align the thread on time, first page with link.

2) TOPL "cheap" DACs are using commonly ESS9028/9038 pro, Medium line could be the 9038q!2m

Low end and less procey integrated rather the 9016/18/23 type of Chips from ESS. There are AKM & TA Chips common as well. And the ESS9068 with MQA on Board (to be avoid, tbh)

You might need to be trained/  experienced to catch/hear the differences between these Chips, their implementation and the available filters. For some it is important and obvious, for others rather not.

As a rule of thumb, if you can't listen to it for comparison look at the implementation/feature set if they have the same price.

3) ok for the cast, I saw them close to one 1k in UK in July. 200 £ below msrp.

4) the lintons are 3-way standmounts,

with a very homogenous presentation.

Best ask @botrytis who enjoys them in his living room. If you can spend up to 1700 on speakers, you may have a rich choice, and your personal style may lead you to Jamo / Polk / Klipsch which leaves you a few options more.

 

[galwaycolin]

6 hours ago, firedog said:

There are some good floorstanders in you price range. 

Polk, Magnepan, Elac, Emotiva, PSB, Wharfdale, Klipsch, Golden Ear, etc.

That's a lot of brands! I didn't realize floorstanders would be affordable for my system, but I guess out of $3k for DAC, amp + speakers I can probably spend close up to $2k on speakers. With that in mind are there are particular models that stand that I should short-list?

 

Much appreciate your input!

[DuckToller]

Are you located elsewhere,  where you can listen to them at a HiFi store?

[DuckToller]

Have a look at Erin's Hifi Corner:

Polk R Series, Klipsch RP series, Wharfedale Lintons, Emotive Airmotiv t2+  Arenal come to mind.

[DuckToller]

13 minutes ago, DuckToller said:

Are you located elsewhere,  where you can listen to them at a HiFi store?

If you are far away from dealer experience, you may want to look at buchardt audio, they let you test the  equipment for 45 days at low return cost.

[galwaycolin]

18 minutes ago, DuckToller said:

If you are far away from dealer experience, you may want to look at buchardt audio, they let you test the  equipment for 45 days at low return cost.

Thanks for the specific model suggestions! I'm in Columbus Ohio so there should be a couple of hi-fi/home theatre stores in the area. I just read a review of the Magnepan 1.7 speaker (right around $2k) that was very favorable. Guess I should do as you suggest and go have a listen to some of these. I'm guess that will help sort this out!

 

Thanks a mill for your help Tom. Hit me back if you think of anything else I should be looking at (maybe in the DAC/amp line)

 

Cheers!

[botrytis]

3 hours ago, galwaycolin said:

Thanks for the specific model suggestions! I'm in Columbus Ohio so there should be a couple of hi-fi/home theatre stores in the area. I just read a review of the Magnepan 1.7 speaker (right around $2k) that was very favorable. Guess I should do as you suggest and go have a listen to some of these. I'm guess that will help sort this out!

 

Thanks a mill for your help Tom. Hit me back if you think of anything else I should be looking at (maybe in the DAC/amp line)

 

Cheers!

Dayton has a great adio store - Hawthorne I think and there are one or two in Cincinnati and Cleveland.

[firedog]

10 hours ago, galwaycolin said:

Thanks for the specific model suggestions! I'm in Columbus Ohio so there should be a couple of hi-fi/home theatre stores in the area. I just read a review of the Magnepan 1.7 speaker (right around $2k) that was very favorable. Guess I should do as you suggest and go have a listen to some of these. I'm guess that will help sort this out!

 

Thanks a mill for your help Tom. Hit me back if you think of anything else I should be looking at (maybe in the DAC/amp line)

 

Cheers!

Magnepan also has the LRS which is smaller and cheaper.

 

[Josh Mound]

On 8/25/2022 at 9:18 AM, galwaycolin said:

Much appreciate the specific suggestions! I will put them on my research list. The speakers you mentioned are in the same price range as the Zu Audio Dirty Weekend Six speakers mentioned earlier in this thread. Any idea how they compare?

 

cheers!

I haven’t heard them, so I can’t say. 

[botrytis]

Zu's are full range speakers with a supertweeter to fill the high end. People either like them or hate them. There is no middle ground.

[davide256]

On 8/25/2022 at 4:49 PM, galwaycolin said:

Thanks for the specific model suggestions! I'm in Columbus Ohio so there should be a couple of hi-fi/home theatre stores in the area. I just read a review of the Magnepan 1.7 speaker (right around $2k) that was very favorable. Guess I should do as you suggest and go have a listen to some of these. I'm guess that will help sort this out!

 

Thanks a mill for your help Tom. Hit me back if you think of anything else I should be looking at (maybe in the DAC/amp line)

 

Cheers!

I own Magnpan 1.7's. They are nice if you have  a room that is at least 16 x 16 but awkward in a 12 x 12 room. They also require a high current amplifier as they are inefficient and big panels tend to resist moving without an overpowered amp. The LRS is a smaller model. They and Quads are preferred by people that are sensitive to cabinet resonances as they are box-less speakers. If you go this route consider a Class D amp

[galwaycolin]

3 hours ago, davide256 said:

I own Magnpan 1.7's. They are nice if you have  a room that is at least 16 x 16 but awkward in a 12 x 12 room. They also require a high current amplifier as they are inefficient and big panels tend to resist moving without an overpowered amp. The LRS is a smaller model. They and Quads are preferred by people that are sensitive to cabinet resonances as they are box-less speakers. If you go this route consider a Class D amp

Hi Dave. Thanks for the info. I actually demo’d the smaller LSR Magnapans on Friday and the guy at the store told me the same thing -that they need a lot of space and a lot of power. 
The depth of the sound was pretty spectacular! But after the demo I’m leaning back towards box speakers as I think they would be more versatile over time.
So the hunt continues… One problem I’m having is there are not many local hi-fi stores and they only carry a few brands. Many of which are not the brands of components I have been getting recommendations on.. :-(

 

 

[botrytis]

29 minutes ago, galwaycolin said:

Hi Dave. Thanks for the info. I actually demo’d the smaller LSR Magnapans on Friday and the guy at the store told me the same thing -that they need a lot of space and a lot of power. 
The depth of the sound was pretty spectacular! But after the demo I’m leaning back towards box speakers as I think they would be more versatile over time.
So the hunt continues… One problem I’m having is there are not many local hi-fi stores and they only carry a few brands. Many of which are not the brands of components I have been getting recommendations on.. :-(

 

 

Sorry, not Hawthorne - Hansen https://hansonav.com/ In Dayton, OH

In Cincinnati - Home Audio | Home Theatre | Audible Elegance | Montgomery

In Cleveland - Audio Craft - HOME | Cleveland, OHIO | 216.431.7300 - Welcome to - Sound & Vision Audio Video Home Theater (soundandvisionohio.com)

 

At least you can Travel to stores.

 

I have been to Audible Elegance a long time ago - nice people, were great to deal with.

 

Hansen is one of the big dog dealers, meaning they sell super high end but also cover the range.

[galwaycolin]

Dear friends.. I have been making progress on my research mission, albeit slow (work & life factors!)

 

One question I have is regarding the Amp / DAC portion of the puzzle… The only one I have managed to listen to so far is the Marantz PM7000N which is also one that was a part of the under $2500 system configuration in this original post!

 

It was the source when I was testing some speakers, so I’m not exactly sure how to critique the source itself. Having said that, the speakers that listen to all sounded very decent so I assume the source was decent too!

 

Just wondering if there are any other integrated amps with streaming & DAC that I should consider, in the $2k and below range? I know it’s asking for a lot in one box, but I’m just trying to do due diligence before buying the first decent one I encounter.

 

I know the next question I am going to ask after this is regarding cabeling, so if anyone has any suggestions in advance (knowing we are e talking about an amp + speakers that cost $3k) please chime in. Thx!

 

🎵

[firedog]

Cables: Just get something well made that meets spec. I like BlueJeans Cable. They customize length and color, and individually test each cable to make sure it meets spec. Reasonably priced. 

[galwaycolin]

1 hour ago, firedog said:

Cables: Just get something well made that meets spec. I like BlueJeans Cable. They customize length and color, and individually test each cable to make sure it meets spec. Reasonably priced. 

Hello Mr 🔥Dog. Not familiar but appreciate the recommendation for BlueJeans Cables.. Will definitely put them on my ‘to check out’ short-list! Cheers 🙂

[AudioDoctor]

27 minutes ago, galwaycolin said:

Hello Mr 🔥Dog. Not familiar but appreciate the recommendation for BlueJeans Cables.. Will definitely put them on my ‘to check out’ short-list! Cheers 🙂

 

I will second the recommendation of Blue Jeans Cables.

[DuckToller]

Had a very good impression from my neighbors Q-Acoustics 3030i bookshelfs, which are to be had around 450-500 Euros a pair. Leaves a serious budget for amp, dac, streamer etc.

 

 

One could go up in price with the Q concept series 20 or 30 which you can se in Darko's latest video just behind him on these sweet wodeb stands (the latter about 1200$ a pair)  thus I would really compare them against each others.

[galwaycolin]

Hello Mr Duck and all the folks here!

 

I very much appreciate the additional suggestion! I was just thinking today I should post with an update... So here is where I'm at:

 

I landed on the Marantz PM7000N ($1200 + tax) for amp, because it ticked ✅ so many boxes with amp, built in streamer, + DAC in one plus I got to actually listen to it (I'll get into that shortly) and a small item but nonetheless meaningful to me, -it has a dedicated subwoofer port, a feature that most in the price range do not have.

 

Note: the Marantz PM7000N was one of the components in the $2500~ setup that started this thread by @DuckToller !! 👍

 

The being able to demo stuff proved a hurdle with speakers... My shortlist of speakers (mostly towers or larger standmounts that had great reviews such as Emotiva T1+, Dynaudio EMIT 30, Dali Oberon 5, Jamo C97II, GoldenEar Triton 7, Wharfdale Linton 85th Anniversary, Elac Uni-Fi 2) consisted of a lot of stuff I couldn't demo, because they are not available in stores my area.  

 

I got into the one local hi-fi store and listened to the inventory they had in my price range (incl the Marantz PM7000N) and just wasn't sold on anything I listened to (-besides the Marantz PM7000N). Unfortunately, the other hi-fi stores in driving distance carry many of the same brands and do not carry many of the speakers I had shortlisted.

 

FYI, in my local listening demo the closest I came to a speaker I liked was a bookshelf by Sonus Faber, but it was clearly lacking in the low end/bass dept.

 

Which brings me to the subject of the space I intend on using this setup in.. It is big. From speakers to listening positing -aprox 18' and the sides are really far away: R side aprox 25' from center & L side aprox 35' from center. So I am really concerned that bookshelf speakers, even with a sub -will be lost in this space.

 

Soooo, I decided that rather than wait until I could demo the speakers I like -which would likely never happen, I would just bite the bullet and buy two sets, with the intention of keeping one. The easiest place to do this for me is Amazon where I do a lot of shopping and can do returns for free. So I am now waiting on the arrival of a pair of Dynaudio EMIT 30 floor standers and also the Wharfdale Linton 85th Anniversary speakers plus stands.

 

Oh, and I did follow the suggestions of @firedog and @AudioDoctor and also have BlueJean Cables in transit!

 

I have an older Paradigm subwoofer that I intend on using with the system along with a Linn TT and a Sony ES series CD player, plus probs listening to some internet based stuff through the streamer/DAC.

 

If anyone feels strongly that they have a better suggestion than my choices of Amp/DAC & speakers that I ordered please speak now (while I am still within the product return window) -"or forever hold your peace"!!

 

Cheers peeps! 🎶

 

 

[firedog]

Sounds great!

Will be interested to hear what you think of the speakers, both in your rather large space and in comparison to one another.

[galwaycolin]

On 9/7/2022 at 3:44 AM, firedog said:

Sounds great!

Will be interested to hear what you think of the speakers, both in your rather large space and in comparison to one another.

Sooo, let me start by saying -Night and Day..

 

I received the Dynaudio Emit 30's first. I got them in white and they are great looking speakers imo.  While the sound was very decent I noticed that, in my listening space they felt very unbalanced..  While the sound had a lot of mid and low end presence it was lacking in the high end of the spectrum. Luckily the Martantz amp has bass and treble adjustments! so I dialed down the bass and pumped up the treble in an effort to rebalance the sound. Anyway, after a lot of fiddling it never really got there... :-(

 

I noticed that while there was a low of bass/low end sound -it wasn't very defined. As I mentioned the tweeter/high end was just kind of well -blah.

Additionally and a major listening note -vocals with these speakers in my setting sounded 'boxey' -literally like the vocalist was somehow confined to some kind of as box when they were singing. So strange -and not in a good way!

 

I tested with several different voices and genres and it was pretty consistent throughout. So while I was excited to have 'decent' sounds back in my life after a long absence -I was frankly disappointed. I wondered if maybe my large listening space was causing some reverberation that was making the sound wonky, or...?

 

About 4 days after the arrival of the Dynaudio's the Wharfedale Linton 85th Anniversary speakers arrived. . I unpacked and placed them parallel to best listening position I had found for the Emit 30's, -about 6" away so that were in a very similar listening position.

And..

 

..ALLEUJAH!

 

It was a beautiful thing to behold for my ears! They are wonderful. 

 

I won't bore you with all the ooey gooey details but they really do sound like an epic pair of speakers. A full balanced range (maybe marginally biased towards the low/bass end of the spectrum) of sound, which combined with my old Linn Axis TT it makes me want to turn it up loud, where I experience no distortion or discomfort -just beautiful sounds wrapped in a warm fuzzy blanket of audible love..! Oh, and  it really doesn't matter how they are positioned -they have awesome soundstage too.

 

So yeah, there you go...

[firedog]

Congrats. Great to hear you found something you like.

[DuckToller]

19 hours ago, galwaycolin said:

 

It was a beautiful thing to behold for my ears! They are wonderful. 

Very happy you found what you were looking for and a wee bit that the Lintons are the speakers of choice!