A point about original capture format and a review of Diana Krall's "Live in Paris"

[miguelito]

Hi all,

 

I know I am going to get some flak for a post on Diana Krall... If that's how you feel then move along... And may I mention that assessing music by its usage and not by the music itself is kind of silly.

 

I have had the CD version of her "Live in Paris" album for a very long time, possibly since it came out. I really like this album. Some time ago the Analog Productions 45rpm LP was released and I bought it for when I would get a turntable - which I did last year. Finally, I recently learned that there is a new(ish) SACD version of the album so I set out to compare all versions, and this is what this post is about. For the digital versions, they are ripped to AIFF and DSF respectively and played in Roon.

 

Generally speaking, I have found that recordings captured to analog sound better in analog format while recordings captured to digital sound better in digital format - obviously assuming a very careful production chain in all cases. Two examples:

1- Nina Simone's "Little Girl Blue" Analogue Productions remaster by Ryan K Smith to LP and DSD in 2015. My understanding is the same exact analog tape and chain was used to cut the lacquer and encode the DSD files. In this case the LP beats the DSD sound.

2- Both 'Sera Una Noche' albums by MA Recordigns/Todd Garfinkle - I have both the high-res downloads and the LPs and the digital (which Todd provides in the original digital capture format) beat the analog versions.

 

My conclusion, almost across the board - I have done this comparison in many cases - is that the original format has a magic that suffers when transcoded.

 

Now to Diana Krall's "Live in Paris"... Firstly, I love this album of hers. The lineup is quite spectacular, actually, and the recording engineer is no other than Al Schmitt. The performance dates from Nov 2001 and was captured to analog tape. I have done my research - Schmitt started dabbling with digital around 2007 and migrated to digital post 2010 or so, still doing some projects on analog when asked for that. Moreover the hype sticker on the LP says "Mastered by Bernie Grundman from the original analog tapes", and you can hear tape hiss here and there.

 

The CD version of this release has some grittiness in her vocals. It's pretty good but I always felt it was what it was - not top notch. The LP is a bit better but in this case not by a whole lot - I still hear some of the grittiness in her voice. The DSD version though is stunning, leaps and bounds better than the CD and to my ears better than the LP. This was a surprise, and makes me question the actual source for the LP cut...

[firedog]

3 hours ago, miguelito said:

This was a surprise, and makes me question the actual source for the LP cut...

The sad part is, unless you read a direct quote from Bernie saying he cut the lacquers directly from the tapes, you don't really know.

Record company statements aren't reliable sources. 

[miguelito]

True, which is sad. The hype sticker includes a pic of the tape logs, which I doubt they would fake. But I wonder if the source for the LP was a digital file, as I detect similar artifacts as in the CD whereas the SACD is on a very different level of sound quality. 

[AudioDoctor]

I also have this CD, but not a vinyl version. I must track down this SACD.

 

edit: Is this the SACD you are referring to?

https://store.acousticsounds.com/d/164598/Diana_Krall-Live_In_Paris-Hybrid_Stereo_SACD

[Rexp]

It's almost as if the big record companies are evil entities that are purposefully depriving us of real music. I've only got the 16/44 which is OK but still doesn't really swing.

[miguelito]

Yes that’s the one. Cheaper on Amazon: 

 

Live in Paris https://a.co/d/i8GbbKX

 

sounds fab

 

 

[Rexp]

51 minutes ago, miguelito said:

Yes that’s the one. Cheaper on Amazon: 

 

Live in Paris https://a.co/d/i8GbbKX

 

sounds fab

 

 

Just checking, you do have other 16/44.1 files that do match good vinyl?

[miguelito]

On 6/18/2022 at 9:17 PM, Rexp said:

Just checking, you do have other 16/44.1 files that do match good vinyl?

Not sure what you mean. I have the AIFF rips from the CD which is what I am comparing the vinyl version to. 

[zyberguran]

This album has been a long-time favorite for me, too.

I am right now listening to the Live in Paris show on DVD (audio in 24/48). I must say it sounds way better than the CD and/or the ripped flac16 files. And there are more songs to enjoy on the DVD than on the CD and the SACD.

 

[miguelito]

5 hours ago, zyberguran said:

This album has been a long-time favorite for me, too.

I am right now listening to the Live in Paris show on DVD (audio in 24/48). I must say it sounds way better than the CD and/or the ripped flac16 files. And there are more songs to enjoy on the DVD than on the CD and the SACD.

Indeed, I have this DVD. Also, some of the takes from the CD & SACD are not the same as the DVD's. The DVD was probably one particular night whereas for the CD & SACD they chose the tracks they deemed best sounding from all of the nights I suppose.

[zyberguran]

I quote a reviewer over at Amazon:

 

Like many other releases, the DVD and CD have different track listings and running orders. The CD has two tracks not on the DVD: a live version of "Fly Me to the Moon" and the bonus studio track of Billy Joel's "Just the Way You Are." The Canadian CD also features a track called "Charmed Life."

The DVD tracks not included on the CD are: "All or Nothing At All," "Cry Me a River," "I Get Along Without You Very Well," "Pick Yourself Up," "Love Letters," "I Don't Know Enough About You," and "Do It Again" (not the Steely Dan hit or The Beach Boys song).

The DVD also features music videos for "The Look of Love" and "Let's Face the Music and Dance," and rehearsal footage of "Do It Again," "The Look of Love," and "Love Letters."

[AudioDoctor]

On 6/18/2022 at 7:23 PM, miguelito said:

Yes that’s the one. Cheaper on Amazon: 

 

Live in Paris https://a.co/d/i8GbbKX

 

sounds fab

 

 

 

Thanks.

[JoeWhip]

The DVD is indeed superb.

[miguelito]

49 minutes ago, JoeWhip said:

The DVD is indeed superb.

Did you mean the SACD or the DVD?

[Rexp]

11 hours ago, miguelito said:

Not sure what you mean. I have the AIFF rips from the CD which is what I am comparing the vinyl version to. 

It was a question in general, unrelated to this album.

Supplementary question, have you compared the CD layer of the SACD to your CD?

[miguelito]

16 minutes ago, Rexp said:

It was a question in general, unrelated to this album.

Supplementary question, have you compared the CD layer of the SACD to your CD?

No I did not rip the CD layer.

[Rexp]

15 minutes ago, miguelito said:

No I did not rip the CD layer.

Assuming it came from the analogue master, it may even beat your vinyl copy.

[miguelito]

10 minutes ago, Rexp said:

Assuming it came from the analogue master, it may even beat your vinyl copy.

Possibly, but I can't be bothered... :)

[JoeWhip]

8 hours ago, miguelito said:

Did you mean the SACD or the DVD?

The multichannel DVD.  Puts you right in the hall.