firedog Posted December 18, 2021 Share Posted December 18, 2021 How long will it be till a vendor comes out with an audiophile server based on this board? Lots of people don't want to build a pc from scratch. Allan F 1 Main listening (small home office): Main setup: Surge protectors +>Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Strip/Protection>QuietPC Low Noise Server>Roon (Audiolense DRC)>Stack Audio Link II>Kii Control>Kii Three BXT (on their own electric circuit) >GIK Room Treatments. Secondary Path: Server with Audiolense RC>RPi4 or analog>Cayin iDAC6 MKII (tube mode) (XLR)>Kii Three BXT Bedroom: SBTouch to Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Setup. Living Room/Kitchen: Ropieee (RPi3b+ with touchscreen) + Schiit Modi3E to a pair of Morel Hogtalare. All absolute statements about audio are false Link to comment
Popular Post firedog Posted December 25, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted December 25, 2021 1 hour ago, bbosler said: Do you seriously think that we can explain everything we sense with electronic measurements? I use the word "sense" on purpose because we definitely sense vibrations that we don't "hear" in the conventional use of the word. To be true, your statement means that we have defined exactly how we hear and that we can precisely measure everything that pertains to it. It implies our knowledge is so far advanced that we understand precisely how the human body senses vibration and exactly how our brain processes this information, and beyond understanding how all of that happens, we have electronic instruments that are capable of precisely measuring everything that pertains to this process... . ..... dream on. Your response is irrelevant to Archi's post. Archi and others have measured the output from DACs fed a signal from devices with and without all the various audiophile "noise reducers" and "jitter reducers". The result: basically no difference in the jitter output, distortion, or noise floor of the DAC. You can claim all sorts of things are going on. But other than fairy tales, please tell us how the DAC output is actually changed by these devices? If jitter doesn't change, frequency response doesn't change, distortion doesn't change, and noise floor doesn't change - then what effect do these devices actually have? Just saying "it's something unknown we can't measure" is a nonsense response. If you want to claim a MB like this or any other audiophile device "does something" - tell us what it does. Saying it "reduces noise" is, by itself, a meaningless statement. What's the effect of the "noise reduction"? On what part of the audio is it operating? And of course, evaluations of such products are almost always done with sighted listening comparisons. So they are basically meaningless. And look, in the end, if you want to buy this MB, and "feel" that it actually does something - go right ahead. Just don't make unsubstantiated claims for it. All you can legitimately claim for such a device is that in your system, with your ears, and in a sighted comparison you think it sounds better. No one can say or prove you wrong. But any broader claim that it actually has some more universal application to SQ for any other listener or that it "really" does something is baseless. Summit, EdmontonCanuck and botrytis 2 1 Main listening (small home office): Main setup: Surge protectors +>Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Strip/Protection>QuietPC Low Noise Server>Roon (Audiolense DRC)>Stack Audio Link II>Kii Control>Kii Three BXT (on their own electric circuit) >GIK Room Treatments. Secondary Path: Server with Audiolense RC>RPi4 or analog>Cayin iDAC6 MKII (tube mode) (XLR)>Kii Three BXT Bedroom: SBTouch to Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Setup. Living Room/Kitchen: Ropieee (RPi3b+ with touchscreen) + Schiit Modi3E to a pair of Morel Hogtalare. All absolute statements about audio are false Link to comment
Popular Post firedog Posted December 26, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted December 26, 2021 13 hours ago, bbosler said: this is the Audio Science Review position. "I see no difference when I measure these 3 things. these 3 things are all that matter, so therefore these devices are identical." Once again, and then I will drop it since you are not "hearing" what I am saying. You and others have decided what the relevant parameters are and that nothing else matters. The ASR guy has also decided that even though some things do measure differently, these differences are beyond what a human can detect. I am hearing you. And no, that's not my position. I don't claim there isn't anything else and everything is known and can be measured. I also don't claim the the $200 devices they test at ASR all sound as good as some of the best equipment. (Although I do suspect that lots (noy all) of people who claim to hear the differences actually couldn't under blind conditions). But "differences beyond what a human can detect" have been measured- for the things that we know how to measure. To say that these same vanishingly small measured differences that have actually been shown in listening tests to be undetectable by listeners are somehow magically making a system sound different is simply nonsense. If you want to make such claims, then it has to be on the basis of some other, as yet unknown or unmeasured type of difference. That's why I said such claims have no basis other than for the individual making them. If you want to claim they have some broader basis, you have to know what they are so they can be evaluated by others - or at least test them in blind listening. If they are only heard in sighted conditions by a certain group of individuals, that means zip in terms of if such a device actually does anything. That's basic logic and science, and doesn't depend on us knowing about any as yet unknown parameters. If SOtM wants to claim that such a motherboard improves SQ, saying it "reduces noise" is in itself a meaningless claim. It's no different than me saying if I put a small magnet in my hands and wave them a certain way while playing music, it "changes the energy" in the room and the SQ improves. Show how it is improving the end result coming out of the DAC or the speakers. And you don't have to measure some mysterious unknown variable. Have it properly tested under blind conditions and show us that listeners can actually hear a difference when this product is installed. If you really have confidence in your product you could do that. With this product it wouldn't be difficult at all. Nor would it be expensive. If they could show such an actual difference with listeners, they'd sell more product. So why do you think a company like SOtM never does this? R1200CL, botrytis, EdmontonCanuck and 1 other 1 2 1 Main listening (small home office): Main setup: Surge protectors +>Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Strip/Protection>QuietPC Low Noise Server>Roon (Audiolense DRC)>Stack Audio Link II>Kii Control>Kii Three BXT (on their own electric circuit) >GIK Room Treatments. Secondary Path: Server with Audiolense RC>RPi4 or analog>Cayin iDAC6 MKII (tube mode) (XLR)>Kii Three BXT Bedroom: SBTouch to Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Setup. Living Room/Kitchen: Ropieee (RPi3b+ with touchscreen) + Schiit Modi3E to a pair of Morel Hogtalare. All absolute statements about audio are false Link to comment
Popular Post firedog Posted December 27, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted December 27, 2021 18 hours ago, bbosler said: which is impossible.. How does one make a claim based on an unknown then say what that unknown is so it can be evaluated? and so ends the discussion at least from my end... you seem to believe that tests have been designed and carried out that prove what can and cannot be detected . I have no faith that these tests are valid nor does a large % of the audiophile community I said, in fact, the opposite. The rabbit hole is your creation. I said no special tests or measurements are necessary. Just do unsighted comparative listening. Anyone who knows anything about human perception knows that humans are highly influenced by expectation biases. It's been shown to be true for audio perception also. Human nature doesn't suddenly change when a hi-fi system is involved. "The audiophile community" is in large part a joke. Often like the anti-vaxxers and other science deniers. "We will hold onto our beliefs no matter what, and we will never actually test them, b/c then we might find out we don't have golden ears and can't actually hear all those things we claim to be able to." That's the real reason for most of the resistance. It's more fun to hold on to beliefs than deal with reality. Wouldn't it be terrible if you found out you couldn't hear any difference between a $1000 component and a $5000 one? Or a $5000 one and a $20000 one? botrytis, R1200CL, Ben-M and 3 others 1 2 2 1 Main listening (small home office): Main setup: Surge protectors +>Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Strip/Protection>QuietPC Low Noise Server>Roon (Audiolense DRC)>Stack Audio Link II>Kii Control>Kii Three BXT (on their own electric circuit) >GIK Room Treatments. Secondary Path: Server with Audiolense RC>RPi4 or analog>Cayin iDAC6 MKII (tube mode) (XLR)>Kii Three BXT Bedroom: SBTouch to Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Setup. Living Room/Kitchen: Ropieee (RPi3b+ with touchscreen) + Schiit Modi3E to a pair of Morel Hogtalare. All absolute statements about audio are false Link to comment
Popular Post firedog Posted December 28, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted December 28, 2021 17 hours ago, bbosler said: unsighted = blind listening which you obviously believe to be valid. I do not. based on what? You are aware of the many tests of human perception, including sound/listening perception, that show expectation bias and results influenced by "sight"? So what is a question of "belief" here? And please stop grouping me with your prejudicial comments about "the ASR cult". Your stereotypes about people who "believe measurements tell everything" are neither accurate nor relevant. Summit, EdmontonCanuck, Ben-M and 2 others 2 3 Main listening (small home office): Main setup: Surge protectors +>Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Strip/Protection>QuietPC Low Noise Server>Roon (Audiolense DRC)>Stack Audio Link II>Kii Control>Kii Three BXT (on their own electric circuit) >GIK Room Treatments. Secondary Path: Server with Audiolense RC>RPi4 or analog>Cayin iDAC6 MKII (tube mode) (XLR)>Kii Three BXT Bedroom: SBTouch to Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Setup. Living Room/Kitchen: Ropieee (RPi3b+ with touchscreen) + Schiit Modi3E to a pair of Morel Hogtalare. All absolute statements about audio are false Link to comment
Popular Post firedog Posted December 28, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted December 28, 2021 1 hour ago, bbosler said: as I said Answering your question will continue yet another endless, pointless debate. If you care to look into it you will find a multitude of them Here are a few links to get you started although it is by no means exhaustive. . enjoy.. https://www.head-fi.org/threads/testing-audiophile-claims-and-myths.486598/#:~:text=Blind tests mean the listener does not know,image%2C product reputation is hidden from the listener https://www.stereophile.com/features/113/index.html https://www.stereophile.com/content/blind-listening-letters https://www.pooraudiophile.com/2014/08/blind-audio-testing.html Thanks. Your articles acutally back up my point, and not yours. I suggest your read them again. In unsighted listening, many listeners can't hear differences between components. That's exactly what I said. I didn't say there were no differences or that no listeners can hear them. In sighted listening audiophiles almost always describe dramatic differences and "veils being lifted". In unsighted listening, most of those same audiophiles can't hear those supposedly dramatic differences. The reason is that the differences either aren't actually there, or if they are, they are often small, and not as dramatic as described. The majority of listeners, even audiophiles, can't hear them. If you find out you can't hear the difference between 2 components, why by the more expensive one, other things being equal? Most audiophiles are afraid to test themselves, b/c they are afraid to find out they don't have "golden ears". It's very satisying to think you are a member of some especially talented listening group, even if you aren't in actuality. The same thing would probably happen with the MB described here if people compared it unsighted. There are (or at least used to be) listening skills tests and courses online. Most audiophiles fail them. It takes a lot of time and work for people to pass them, and many never do. They can't actually hear many of those things they claim to hear. They are just imagining them. That's fine if they just want to enjoy their components. The problem is when they assume and tell others that they should "upgrade to X" because it "reduces noise" and will improve what they hear. The likelihood is that it actually won't. botrytis, EdmontonCanuck, bbosler and 1 other 2 2 Main listening (small home office): Main setup: Surge protectors +>Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Strip/Protection>QuietPC Low Noise Server>Roon (Audiolense DRC)>Stack Audio Link II>Kii Control>Kii Three BXT (on their own electric circuit) >GIK Room Treatments. Secondary Path: Server with Audiolense RC>RPi4 or analog>Cayin iDAC6 MKII (tube mode) (XLR)>Kii Three BXT Bedroom: SBTouch to Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Setup. Living Room/Kitchen: Ropieee (RPi3b+ with touchscreen) + Schiit Modi3E to a pair of Morel Hogtalare. All absolute statements about audio are false Link to comment
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