Article: SOtM Launches sMB-Q370 Motherboard

[Gavin1977]

I just wish the buy button would work! :-)

[Gavin1977]

I was hoping the SMB-Q370 would have included a high grade clock baked into the motherboard.  Hmm…

[Gavin1977]

Still no answer from SOTM on what the two clock freqencies are that this motherboard takes... the manual also doesn't say anything...dissapointing.  This is not the greatest product launch....

[Gavin1977]

Back on topic:

 

The sMB-Q370 appears to accept two external clocks - 24Mhz and 25MHz.  Can anyone shed light on the following:

• Can external clock be added to both, or just one of these at at time?
• What motherboard functions do these two clock frequencies control?

Reason for my question is that if 24Mhz clock on the sMB-Q370 if for the onboard USB clocks, but you have a standalone USB card with a good clocks, then you could obviously look to try upgrading the 25MHz clock first.  In other words, there may be a preferable upgrade path in terms of money spend.

 

Equally if the clocks just affect the Intel Q370 chipset, then then may be no benefit for those out us who use PCI cards which are 'CPU direct' and avoid the chipset entirely.

 

Thanks

[Gavin1977]

Spoke too soon!  I've answered my question on page 3:  https://docs.sotm-audio.com/lib/exe/fetch.php?media=manuals:smb-q370_productguide_v1.1c.pdf

 

Onboard clocks are for the Q370 chipset and the Ethernet controller.

 

In my current set up I bypass these by using CPU-direct PCI lanes - one 8x for a solarflare network card and the other 8x for JCAT USB XE.  Therefore I wouldn't get any benefits from the use of external clocks.

 

Will be interesting what other features standout in a sMB-Q370 review.

[Gavin1977]

46 minutes ago, MarcelNL said:

Great point you make here, I have been inquiring with Pink faun to modify my MB and you made me wonder why they propose two clocks...I probably only need one, since I'm using a Solarflare and have the ultra OCXO on the I2S bridge!

Indeed - Put one card in your PCIEX16 slot and the other in PCIEX8 on your Aorus x570.  You'll be CPU direct, so clocks 'shouldn't' benefit you and you'll save a wad of cash.   sMB-Q370 is therefore interesting if you decided NOT to go for external cards, but with the cost of good quality external clocks being so high, I can't see a reason why you wouldn't do down this route like we have with Solarflare and JCAT/Pink Faun (somebody please shout out if this is incorrect).

 

Perhaps we know now why Taiko don't have any fancy clocks on their motherboards, it's just a standard SAGE C631e because the best thing you can do for accuracy of the CPU is a top quality linear supply and bios/OS optimisation (I presume there is no other form of clock external to the CPU).  Attach everything to the CPU directly, and power the CPU with the best power you can find and your timing / transient response will be the best.  Of course, clocks or not, design of the motherboard still matters (copper traces, VRMS etc...) to optimise the CPU and it's power delivery.

 

Same applies to Innuos (probably antipodes and others too) if you design around the CPU-direct philosophy, no reason for MB level clocks.

 

I think I learned something today!

[Gavin1977]

10 minutes ago, MarcelNL said:

That is exactly what I did...was just wondering if there is any part of the MB that would benefit from a better clock?

The chipset? Indeed the CPU? (always assumed they have their internal reference)?

Same here - anyone?

[Gavin1977]

1 hour ago, MarcelNL said:

what I read until now it seems as if the PCI bus has it's own clock...YMMV....I'll wait for the more informed response from Jord....

Just found it out myself…

 

——————

 

Modern procesors rely on a 100MHz base clock (BCLK) which is generated by a phase locked loop (PLL) circuit inside the chipset or platform controller hub (PCH).

 

Different components in the CPU die can thus get their clock speeds using that BCLK and a multiplier/ratio. For example, a 3GHz core will use a 30x multi while the integrated GPU running at 1.1GHz will use a 11x multi and a DDR4 memory controller running at 2400MHz will use 24x.

 

Intel's current SoC clock layout with the init CLK (BCLK) which is generated by the PCH. Note that most components operate on separate clock domains.

 

Older computers used a crystal oscillator to generate the front-side bus (FSB) clock which was then used to get the final clock speed. A 486 with an FSB of 25MHz for example, could use a 2x multi to achieve 50MHz.

 

https://www.quora.com/What-is-used-to-create-clock-rate-for-processors-If-it-s-a-crystal-how-can-it-be-so-high-rate/answer/Yowan-Rajcoomar?ch=15&oid=134717785&share=5a39998b&target_type=answer

——————

 

So therefore, even if you have an add-in PCIE cards that are CPU direct it is worth adding an external clock to the motherboards system chipset because it controls the CPU frequency.  So my earlier understanding was wrong.

 

The Q370 chipset in the SOtM can intrinsically do ethernet, but they decided to use a dedicated chipset for ethernet and provide for its own clock input… so it must be doing something better than what the integrated chipset in the Q370 can achieve.

 

At least we can now summarise that if you have a Solarflare card, JCAT NET XE or similar that it’s only the external clock on the chipset that’s worth bothering with.

 

All of this stuff should be obvious, but it’s not easy to find.

 

This starts me thinking about the chipset - gaming motherboards are therefore likely to sound better because the chipset has to be better at timing the CPU under higher frequencies.

New theory:  Chipsets such as Intel c621 are also intended to do a lot more functions, PCI lanes, etc… It’s this need to manage increased complexity which means that the chipset designer has to improve clocks on the chipset to manage all of these different operations compared to a consumer level chipset.  Therefore, the more complex (advanced) the chipset the better it may sound when undertaking simple tasks such as audio playback.  This is Taikos approach.  SOtM approach is to inject a higher quality clock into a consumer grade chipset and other tweaks.

 

This is an interesting theory - we’ll never know which approach to chipset clocks is better though because each platform uses different CPU’s (which sound different), memory etc… no way to compare, we can only judge at a macro level.

[Gavin1977]

sMB q370. - so which lanes are CPU direct, and which ones go through the system chipset?

 

PCI-E 3.0 x16 slot
PCI-E Gen.3 x4 slot
PCI-E Gen.3 x1 slot
2x M.2 M key 2280 (PCI-E x4)
2x M.2 E key 2230 (PCI-E x2, USB)

 

 

[Gavin1977]

7 minutes ago, MayfromSOtM said:

Obviously there will be users who want the PC for playing audio plus "video" as well..  

 

And you can use the tX-USBexp to x16.

And there are so many audio elements to consider other than what you think of the PCIe bus. I can't explain everything .

 

Anyway, using the usb port with pcie x16 will help certainly sound quality, but the improvement in other parts would be bigger than that.

 

I bet you will be able to experience the difference in sound quality from other motherboard immediately once use the sMB-370, please try it.

Well there are also reports that sometimes PCIe cards attached to the system chipset can sound better, so it’s not always the case that CPU direct is best.  However, CPU direct is probably the more consistent & recognised approach to good sound.

 

We’re all keen to try sMB-370 - just waiting for a review.

[Gavin1977]

1 hour ago, Patatorz said:

For the ones who would like to use BBS boot between different options/OS, you need to presse "F7" during boot sequence (not in the actual manual).

Cool - someone actually has one?

 

Still waiting for a review…

[Gavin1977]

Similar to Aries G2... hmm.  Needs us Computer Audio Nuts to hot rod it and see how far it can really go.
 

I'm hoping for another review on here soon.

[Gavin1977]

1 hour ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

It has arrived :~)

 

 

Great - is this SoTM’s demo unit or your own build?  Need to get an audiophile supply on it.

[Gavin1977]

Appologies for being cynical - but no comparisons and another 5* review?

 

5* vs what exactly?

[Gavin1977]

39 minutes ago, R1200CL said:

Just one similar random pick is OK. 

Yep - without it we’re clueless and the review has no meaning/insight

[Gavin1977]

21 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

This is a pretty narrow view of the world. 

 

If the only thing you're looking for is a sonic comparison head-to-head versus another motherboard, that's ignoring many other items I mentioned in the review. That's OK, I can't please everyone. 

 

Have you ever needed support from ASUS? I have. I know what the experience is like. 

 

How do you suggest someone sets up a comparison of the sMB-Q370, using the same parts that I did, with another motherboard?

I personally think a comparison with any other motherboard would have been fine, even your CAPs server?

 

I run 8086k, so could compare.

 

Credit to Hans Beckhuyzen - he did provide comparison, but a commercial streamer, and not a DIY product.  But still gives an idea about it’s relative performance.  Trouble was with his review that it’s the same rig you are using - just a regular ATX power supply.  What the computer audiophile peers want (that you’re the lead of) is a review that try’s this with a proper linear power supply and also the suggested SoTM clocks into the mix.  Let’s see how this thing scales!

 

Sorry, but I’m just very disappointed with the review.  Nobody has yet given this product the attention it deserves and it’s a missed opportunity.

 

(I’ve actually had good support from ASUS prior - but that’s not what I’m really interested in - sound quality is the big deal).

[Gavin1977]

Great job Rob - Finally someone gave the SOTM a quality power supply and associated equipment to see what it’s really capable of - Bravo!

 

I just wish SOTM would have done it justice to start with.

[Gavin1977]

8th gen 8086k vs 9th gen 9900k... hmm...

 

Also Q370 only does dual channel memory.  So dual channel with 2x DDR4 sticks or dual channel with 4x DDR4 sticks?  Absolutely zero guidance on what is preferable in the manual.

 

Is two sticks per channel worth it?

[Gavin1977]

25 minutes ago, Gavin1977 said:

8th gen 8086k vs 9th gen 9900k... hmm...

 

Also Q370 only does dual channel memory.  So dual channel with 2x DDR4 sticks or dual channel with 4x DDR4 sticks?  Absolutely zero guidance on what is preferable in the manual.

 

Is two sticks per channel worth it?

Found the answer... 4 sticks will serve as dual channel. only.  In fact 4 sticks would likely make the memory controller work harder, so 2 sticks is best.  Makes me question why four banks was included.