HQplayer 4 and Mac-mini M1

[Kalpesh]

Anybody using Sinc Long on Apple Silicon ?

can @352.8 PCM, no more

glimpses at 1.5 M before crash were amazing

Wonder How much is possible with more recent Mac ?

[ripples]

 Sinc-lp,  Sinc-Long-lp  is a no go,  initialization takes for ever on m2 pro 

for reference my old i7 8th gen windows laptop has no issues with those filters using hpq 5

also sounds better compared to my m2 pro using NAA. btw this relates maybe to my lack of macos knowledge . Mac looks like linux but does not respond like linux 🙂 

 

just guessing dont think apple silicon has the tricks required for this

 

 

[bogi]

6 hours ago, ripples said:

Sinc-lp,  Sinc-Long-lp  is a no go,  initialization takes for ever on m2 pro 

for reference my old i7 8th gen windows laptop has no issues with those filters using hpq 5

At the same target rate? Because it depends.
Those filters have very high memory requirements for 512+ rates, but -2s versions work fine at those rates.

[Kalpesh]

7 hours ago, ripples said:

 Sinc-lp,  Sinc-Long-lp  is a no go,  initialization takes for ever on m2 pro 

for reference my old i7 8th gen windows laptop has no issues with those filters using hpq 5

also sounds better compared to my m2 pro using NAA. btw this relates maybe to my lack of macos knowledge . Mac looks like linux but does not respond like linux 🙂 

 

just guessing dont think apple silicon has the tricks required for this

 

 

seems you're referrng to poly family, not new Sinc filters introduced in 5

[Miska]

12 hours ago, Kalpesh said:

Anybody using Sinc Long on Apple Silicon ?

can @352.8 PCM, no more

glimpses at 1.5 M before crash were amazing

Wonder How much is possible with more recent Mac ?

 

If you don't need conversion between rate families, maybe sinc-Lx group instead?

 

[Kalpesh]

5 hours ago, Miska said:

 

If you don't need conversion between rate families, maybe sinc-Lx group instead?

 

thank you. Sinc Ll @256 Super sure sounds good with piano/violin sonata. Other combos do too... In the end I have to let the music flow ; sometimes I think I have found a pattern for filters picking  but for the time being I'm a bit lost

back To Beethoven now...

[ripples]

7 hours ago, Kalpesh said:

seems you're referrng to poly family, not new Sinc filters introduced in 5

indeed poly-sinc-lp,  poly-sinc-long-lp 

[ripples]

8 hours ago, bogi said:

At the same target rate? Because it depends.
Those filters have very high memory requirements for 512+ rates, but -2s versions work fine at those rates.

both laptops have 16gb ram dont think it is mem limited. it is some specific apple silicon thing with  poly-Sinc-lp, poly-Sinc-Long-lp  

[juniorbudel]

On 15/05/2023 at 00:32, Reg19 said:

 

Na verdade, eu estava errado - posso jogar DSD 512 AMSDM7EC 512+f1 / sinc MGa sem preocupações. O gargalo era meu streamer (SoTM Trifecta). Mudar para Sonore óticoRendu corrige isso.

 

Com meu Intel NUC (hospedando Roon), Mac Studio (hospedando HQP) e SMS-200Ultra Neo, todos conectados ao switch Innuos Phoenix Net, posso jogar um pouco menos (o DSD256 / ASDM7ECv3 / Sinc MGa normal), mas soa muito bom.

 

Então, voltei a usar o HQP.

Sorry for the offtopic, did you find OR better than Sotm trifecta? I ask because I use the OR as a NAA and I've always been curious about the Sotm trio.

[Reg19]

On 5/25/2023 at 11:24 AM, juniorbudel said:

Sorry for the offtopic, did you find OR better than Sotm trifecta? I ask because I use the OR as a NAA and I've always been curious about the Sotm trio.

 

I prefer the trifecta. oR and oM are powered by the Sonore Audiophile Power Supplies. The trifecta timbre seems more realistic and natural. Better depth (though oR has a bit wider soundstage). oR seems a wee bit digital (though, perhaps, using different SFP might help in that regard)

[Schafheide]

On my Mini M2 Pro, using Desktop v4 or v5 - when I O/S DSD64 files to DSD256, when I pause the playing, I can just hear very faint, random "ticks" (like tiny scratches on an LP).  This does not happen when I O/S to DSD512 or when I play PCM or DXD files.  Any thoughts?

[bogi]

1 hour ago, Schafheide said:

when I pause the playing, I can just hear very faint, random "ticks"

When pause is pressed, DSD silence pattern is played by HQPlayer. CPU/GPU load remains the same like during normal playback, but silence allows you to hear any noise if present during processing.

 

Your issue shows some similarity to this but I'm not sure if that helps in your case.
I would suggest for testing purposes to simplify your chain to maximum - local playback from local file and directly connected DAC. Then go step by step in direction to your wished setup and always check the result. Hopefully you could isolate your issue that way. With full setup you don't know where the issue originates.

[Schafheide]

Any ideas why I can only hear it when playing at DSD256 and not at DSD512?

[Schafheide]

Thank you - I found the post, to which you referred, most informative.

Given that I do not hear clicks when converting PCM or DSX to DSD256 - doesn't this mean that the problem could be in the server (incl HQP) and the path between the server and the NAS (incl router etc) ???

[bogi]

8 hours ago, Schafheide said:

Thank you - I found the post, to which you referred, most informative.

Given that I do not hear clicks when converting PCM or DSX to DSD256 - doesn't this mean that the problem could be in the server (incl HQP) and the path between the server and the NAS (incl router etc) ???

Try to play a PCM file locally stored on HQPlayer server and let it convert by HQPlayer to DSD256. I suggested that already. If it will play without ticks, then your path from NAS to HQPlayer server is causing issues.

[Miska]

On 6/2/2023 at 11:15 PM, Schafheide said:

On my Mini M2 Pro, using Desktop v4 or v5 - when I O/S DSD64 files to DSD256, when I pause the playing, I can just hear very faint, random "ticks" (like tiny scratches on an LP).  This does not happen when I O/S to DSD512 or when I play PCM or DXD files.  Any thoughts?

 

One typical reason for such are lost USB packets, causing 125 µs long dropouts. Such are usually hardware related. For example RPi3 based NAAs suffer from such and for that reason are not supported for NAA use.

 

[bogi]

9 hours ago, Schafheide said:

Given that I do not hear clicks when converting PCM or DSX to DSD256

I see I didn't read your 2nd post enough carefully.
Try what I above suggested - local playback - but with DSD64 file as a source.

[juniorbudel]

Has anyone managed to use an M2 Pro with an external linear source? From the photos on the internet the connector of this model is different, the power specifications are also a little higher (2.5A).

 

 

[Schafheide]

On 6/4/2023 at 7:57 PM, bogi said:

I see I didn't read your 2nd post enough carefully.
Try what I above suggested - local playback - but with DSD64 file as a source.

I tried this on my Mini M1 8GB - the clicks are still there (they are also there when I play the file, when it is on an attached USB drive).

I am thinking that this only became obvious after an update to macOS Ventura (not certain which one).  

Not sure if I can easily go back a couple of those updates?

[Miska]

11 hours ago, Schafheide said:

I tried this on my Mini M1 8GB - the clicks are still there (they are also there when I play the file, when it is on an attached USB drive).

I am thinking that this only became obvious after an update to macOS Ventura (not certain which one).  

Not sure if I can easily go back a couple of those updates?

 

I cannot reproduce this on my Macs. Is your DAC locally connected? If not, I would try with DAC connected locally through USB.

 

[Schafheide]

My DAC (Holo May) comes after EtherRegen & UltraRendu (NAA).

But surely, the bottom line is that, up until a couple of months ago, there were no clicks when playing DSD64.

So what has changed? 

All cables & hardware are the same as before.

So, the possible culprit is an upgrade to Ventura (other than HQP upgrade).

I will therefore have to go down this path, and report.

[ripples]

On 6/2/2023 at 10:15 PM, Schafheide said:

O/S DSD64 files to DSD256, when I pause the playing, I can just hear very faint, random "ticks" (like tiny scratches on an LP)

no clicks on that scenario , hardware: [macbook M2 pro/ventura 13.4 +HQP-Desktop and Client v5 + external ssd attached)] -->wifi-->NAA(windows)-->Dac

 

i use 250 ms buffer, small buffer can sometimes mean  sound is dropping unexpectedly but nothing like a click

50 minutes ago, Schafheide said:

So, the possible culprit is an upgrade to Ventura (other than HQP upgrade).

could be , interested in your findings 

 

btw my own experience  with "clicks"  relates to usb asio  installations on windows NAA (something from the past btw)

 

[SwissBear]

2 hours ago, Schafheide said:

My DAC (Holo May) comes after EtherRegen & UltraRendu (NAA).

But surely, the bottom line is that, up until a couple of months ago, there were no clicks when playing DSD64.

So what has changed? 

All cables & hardware are the same as before.

So, the possible culprit is an upgrade to Ventura (other than HQP upgrade).

I will therefore have to go down this path, and report.

 

I have not noticed any adverse effect of upgrading to the latest versions of macOS on my M1 with 8 GB of RAM. Have you tried a direct connection to the DAC via USB as Jussi suggested or using a small simple computer with the Linux NAA image of Jussi ? In the past, such tests helped me get rid of similar clicks I had with an SOtM Trifecta which was becoming useless with the progress made on the upsampling side by HQP and not able to keep up with the evolution of the NAA protocol.

This test might prove less of a burden than downgrading macOS which is a real pain 😅

[MikePid]

Hmm, maybe it is time to rename the thread to HQPlayer 5 and Mac Mx? 😉

 

I just ran a quick test.  My system is the mighty yet humble MMM1 with 8GB RAM, into EtherREGEN then UltraRendu (similar to @Schafheide.  DAC is ESS9038Pro-based.  MMM1 is on latest Ventura, and I just updated to HQP 5.0.2.  Roon Core is running on MMM1 too.  Cables are Ghent CAT8 JSSG360 from MMM1 to ER then Sablon 2020 CAT8 to UR, and Inakustik Referenz USB to DAC.  No issues with playback or pausing with any input rates, and amazingly low CPU loads for HQP doing DSD256x44/5ECv3/poly-sinc-gauss-long.  Buffer is default.

- 44k: 240%

- 48k: 300%

- 88k: 240%

- 96k: 300%

- 192K: 400%

- DSD64: 250%

- DSD128: 260%

 

Almost no load on efficiency cores except 48k-based.  With 192k, the extra CPU was offloaded to the efficiency cores, meaning the performance cores were doing not much more than for 44k.  

 

Truly amazing work by @Miska to optimize HQPlayer for Apple Silicon!  It wasn't that long ago that DSD256 with regular EC and ext was an unachievable holy grail, now even heavier modulators and filters are easily achieved.

[Schafheide]

So you do not hear "the clicks" when you pause a DSD64 file (which was playing at DSD256) ???

If not, then I am going mad!