Article: UPDATE: Amazon Music HD Is Still Lossy*

[The Computer Audiophile]

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[The Computer Audiophile]

2 hours ago, whell said:

Had no idea that Amazon was working with Bob Stuart and company.

They aren't. MQA tried to sell Amazon on the technology years ago. Amazon was only interested in lighting the MQA blue light so its customers could see something (I have that straight from someone at MQA). The deal never materialized. The MQA content showing up on Amazon is just there because the label provided it. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

7 hours ago, 57gold said:

Man, I'm confused.  Have the Amazon app on my music Mac Mini, pay for HD version, and who I played a couple of new albums yesterday - Dave Grissom's, Matt Scofield's and a tune by Scary Goldings with Josh Smith (I like guitar).  It all sounded pretty nice and my Mytek B+ displayed that the files fed by USB from Mini to B+ were CD quality? 

 

Not sure how to find stuff on Amazon Music HD that is higher resolution than CD quality to test? 

 

FWIW, the Mini is connected to the web by WiFi (Netgear hub is in next room, 6 ft linear from the Mini).

 

 

No worries. Sample rate isn’t a decent indicator of bit perfect audio. You can take a CD quality WAV file and convert it to MP3. It will still be 16/44.1 but irreversibly damaged / lossy. 
 

The Amazon interface shows stuff as HD and UHD but will only show sample rate once playback starts. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

46 minutes ago, 57gold said:

 

Guess I don't understand sample rate versus bit perfect. Par for the course for me as I miss 80% of the tech talking here. 

 

 I use a Mac so where does Amazon app "send it" to get altered, iTunes?

 

FWIW, the Amazon HD files sound better than MP3s, made the mistake of assuming that iTunes sold CD quality downloads years ago and bought an album (Gregg Allman's) and it sounded miserable. 

Hey @57gold, you’re in the same boat as most people. Thanks for asking the questions/making the points. 
 

Sample rate vs. bit perfect:

 

Start with a CD quality file. It’s 16/44.1.  Play it without altering anything and it’s bit perfect at 16/44.1. 
 

Using iTunes, turn down the volume 90% and it will still be 16/44.1, but no longer bit perfect because the digital volume control removes bits to reduce volume. 
 

In this case it’s simple to hear the loss because it’s a massive volume reduction. All DACs and software that only show sample rate will still say 16/44.1, which doesn’t indicate the bits are no longer all present. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

5 minutes ago, photonman said:

If only Amazon HD had Spotify's apps and algorithms!  For now I will stream lossy proudly.  I let my Amazon HD expire in favor of staying with the green and black.

Certainly nothing wrong with that. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

33 minutes ago, 57gold said:

 

OK, may be a dumb question...but if the shoe fits!

 

So, if I stream from Amazon HD on my Mini with both the app volume and iTunes volume maxed, and then use the analog attenuator on the B+ to modulate volume, do I have bit perfect play back from Amazon HD?

No. The apps for Windows and macOS are incapable of bit perfect. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

1 minute ago, photonman said:

 

What about if I am using Amarra SQ+ with the Spotify app streaming to my Benchmark stack using the volume control on the LA4 preamp?

My original comment, and this article, reference the Amazon Music HD app and its content. 

 

Spotify is lossy to begin with and the company doesn't offer lossless. If you like it, you're totally golden. Don't worry about it. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

Just now, photonman said:

Sorry, got off topic a little.  I did try SQ+ with the Amazon Mac app.  It would start out fine but after about 15 minutes of continuous play I would get pops and clicks.  Amarra support looked into it and responded that the Amazon app was CPU intensive from what they saw.  

Ah. There is nothing Amara, or anyone, can do if accepting the audio feed from the Amazon apps. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

30 minutes ago, 57gold said:

 

OK, so how "imperfect" are they with no digital attenuation in terms of signal/data degradation?  Are they taking a CD or better signal and converting it to MP3 compressed quality?  Or something better but not 100% of the original file quality?  

 

Seems dumb for Amazon to advertise HD and then not deliver it, especially when they charge extra for it and it's not like they do not have the resources to develop an app that delivers as advertised.  

That's the rub. I have no clue where the DSP is taking place or what it's doing. I suppose I could capture a stream and compare it to the lossless version I have and to other services, then make a difference file. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

1 hour ago, JPK said:

Is the Roon streamer compliant with Amazon?

No. 

 

1 hour ago, JPK said:

Is there a list of streamers/companies that have a relationship with Amazon Music?

No. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

8 minutes ago, asdf1000 said:

Reminds me of DTS cds LOL

Yes!

[The Computer Audiophile]

1 minute ago, Ottoa62 said:

My thought is, to my knowledge Could another solution or alternative to Bluesound( which I have no gripe about), be waiting for software apps like JRiver ,Ardrivana, and others to start offering to handle the higher Rez streaming services. Now their interface would bypass Windows and iOS all together.  If I'm missing something,  my bad. 

I'm not totally following your question / comment, but if I understand correctly, technically JRiver, Audirvana, Roon, etc... could integrate with Amazon Music HD and output bit perfect audio very easily. However, working with Amazon is like pulling teeth. Getting in touch with someone there, getting them to actually respond in a timely manner to get work done, is as difficult as it gets. Th company just isn't that interested in working with others unless you can offer them Sonos type numbers. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

1 hour ago, Daren F said:

I just ordered a Paradigm PW Link. It uses DTS Play-Fi which will provide bit perfect output of Amazon Music HD.

 

I'll connect it to my DAC via the Toslink output. The PW Link also has a Toslink input where I plan to connect a Chrome Cast Audio.

 

The PW Link is currently on sale for 45% off at CA$249.00 on the Paradigm website.

How do you control Amazon Music, the Play-Fi App? Do you know that Play-Fi streams everything through your mobile device rather than straight from the cloud?

[The Computer Audiophile]

5 minutes ago, Daren F said:

Yes, you control with the Play-Fi app. I didn't know that it streams through the app but does that really matter? 

 

Options are limited with Amazon Music HD so at $249.00 I though it would be worth trying. If Qobuz was officially available in Canada my choice would be easy. I have a French account but at 19.99 Euros per month that's over CA$30.00.

 

I really don't want to support Tidal and MQA especially since they started replacing CD quality with MQA as well.

 

I have Play-Fi on my Anthem processor and bit depth and sample rates change accordingly. Don't know if it's truly bit perfect as I have no way of testing but if the Node 2i tested bit perfect I would say that it's a pretty good chance that the PW Link will be too.

 

If the PW Link doesn't work out, I'll pay for French Qobuz until they hopefully launch in Canada. 

I’d get a Node 2i. 
 

 

[The Computer Audiophile]

18 minutes ago, otaking241 said:

Very interesting discussion addresses the only problem I’ve had with AMHD to date.  I play primarily from my HTPC to one of my external DACs and have been concerned that the DAC only shows the bitrate that Windows is set to as the maximum for the DAC I’m using, regardless of the bitrate that the app shows it’s playing. 
 

I’m curious though if there is a quantifiable downside to this?  What is actually happening when AMHD is playing back, say, a 24/96 file but the DAC is processing it as 24/192?

That’s the thing. We don’t know what’s going on with the signal processing. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

Hi Guys, just want to post an update to this article. I just published a podcast interview with OraStream founders Frankie Tan and Kelvin Lee. In the episode Frankie explains why Amazon Music HD isn't lossless / bit perfect and why the app can't have exclusive mode. It's very interesting. 

 

 

 

 

[The Computer Audiophile]

11 minutes ago, BaseballCoach said:

Would connecting the Bluesound Node to the Net via wired Ethernet cable enable me to get the Amazon subscription tracks (ultraHD) into this streamer?

 

Yes. I’ve done this and it works great.