M.2 NVMe SSD for OS

[phusis]

Thanks for your replies, @lmitche and @StreamFidelity. 

 

About a week ago it seems my old Samsung EVO840 SATA boot drive (C:) had checked out, so to speak; some "read error" occurred when I powered up my server (maybe linked to my enabling X.M.P. in BIOS?, that I've since disabled again), and being several re-boot attempts failed I headed over to BIOS and changed the boot drive to the Kingston A2000 M.2 unit, which is what I'm running still, and after some tweaks it's not for the worse - sonically speaking or otherwise. I then disconnecting two SATA drives, namely named EVO840 and a Seagate HDD, while also disabling 3 out 4 SATA ports in BIOS - leaving only one enabled that's connecting my Asus Blu-ray drive.

 

I've then spent some days continuing to fiddle with BIOS settings disabling the likes of Intel "Turbo boost" options, Speed Shift, C-States, audio controller, EIST and others. Hyper Threading it seems is not supported by my i3 9100 CPU, and I disabled C-States because I experienced music stuttering after (and only after) some hours of playback, suspecting that the CPU went into an idling state. It's a bit of a trial and error process navigating with these BIOS tweaks trying to find out what they're good for, and if they have any positive (or negative) effect on sound quality.

 

All being told and while still in the process of tweaking I find the current level of sound quality has advanced into a more "analogue," stable and coherent presentation. 

[StreamFidelity]

On 9/26/2020 at 4:59 PM, lmitche said:

OK, so you seem to have answered your own questions about the Optane drive without trying one.

 

This is a point for you. I have now tested it with:

Intel® Optane™ Memory M10 Series 64GB, M.2 80mm PCIe 3.0, 20nm, 3D XPoint™

 

On 9/26/2020 at 3:31 PM, lmitche said:

There is no need for bios adjustments, or driver installations.

 

That's all right.

 

On 9/26/2020 at 3:31 PM, lmitche said:

In SSD mode it works in any NVME slot on all Intel and AMD motherboards tried here.

 

Correct, see M.2 slot in ASUS Board with the blue Intel Optane SSD.

 

On 9/26/2020 at 3:31 PM, lmitche said:

Just make it your boot drive for the OS and run the music playback app from the same drive.

 

Cloning the boot drive on Intel Optane went smoothly. The operating system (Win 10 Pro) and HQPlayer started smoothly.

 

On 9/26/2020 at 3:31 PM, lmitche said:

While it can hold music files, it is best to use another drive for music files to separate the traffic and data paths.

 

That is my experience too. I was streaming music from the NAS and Qobuz. Here's a closer look at Intel Optane SSD activity. When the HQPlayer is started, read and write activities take place.

 

 

But after about 5 minutes there are no more SSD activities because everything is in RAM.

 

 

 

Contrary to my noticed, I hear a slight improvement in the SQ! How can that be?

 

Is it because of the very low latencies?
Latency - Read 7 µs
Latency - Write 18 µs

 

I consider low latencies to be one of the keys to digital audio playback. Optane can show its advantages here.

 

 

Or is it the 3D XPoint storage? Compared to the NAND memory, the durability is 10 times longer due to the gentler type of memory. Bit-precise addressing can take place with 3D XPoint. NAND must read page by page (read-modify-write cycle). Source: Intel Optane SSD 900P 280 GB with 3D XPoint storage in the test

 

Maybe I am wrong. But it just sounds good. The Intel Optane SSD remains in it for now. @lmitche Thanks 👍

 

 

[lmitche]

8 minutes ago, StreamFidelity said:

 

This is a point for you. I have now tested it with:

Intel® Optane™ Memory M10 Series 64GB, M.2 80mm PCIe 3.0, 20nm, 3D XPoint™

 

 

That's all right.

 

 

Correct, see M.2 slot in ASUS Board with the blue Intel Optane SSD.

 

 

Cloning the boot drive on Intel Optane went smoothly. The operating system (Win 10 Pro) and HQPlayer started smoothly.

 

 

That is my experience too. I was streaming music from the NAS and Qobuz. Here's a closer look at Intel Optane SSD activity. When the HQPlayer is started, read and write activities take place.

 

 

But after about 5 minutes there are no more SSD activities because everything is in RAM.

 

 

 

Contrary to my noticed, I hear a slight improvement in the SQ! How can that be?

 

Is it because of the very low latencies?
Latency - Read 7 µs
Latency - Write 18 µs

 

I consider low latencies to be one of the keys to digital audio playback. Optane can show its advantages here.

 

 

Or is it the 3D XPoint storage? Compared to the NAND memory, the durability is 10 times longer due to the gentler type of memory. Bit-precise addressing can take place with 3D XPoint. NAND must read page by page (read-modify-write cycle). Source: Intel Optane SSD 900P 280 GB with 3D XPoint storage in the test

 

Maybe I am wrong. But it just sounds good. The Intel Optane SSD remains in it for now. @lmitche Thanks 👍

 

 

I am delighted to see you tested the Optane. Despite using the Optane as a boot drive for years, I did regression with non-Optane Intel and Samsung drives a few weeks ago and the Optane presented a richer, more dense image. It was a relief to hear the SQ return after the Optane was re-installed.

 

From here you may want to listen with Samsung drive removed. You could use a streaming service (Tidal or Qobux) or move a few files to the Optane. Either way, this is an easy test to do and you may be surprised at the difference.

 

Also consider moving the Optane between various M.2 slots. Closer to the CPU and/or a CPU direct slot can impact SQ.

[lmitche]

4 minutes ago, lmitche said:

I am delighted to see you tested the Optane. Despite using the Optane as a boot drive for years, I did regression with non-Optane Intel and Samsung drives a few weeks ago and the Optane presented a richer, more dense image. It was a relief to hear the SQ return after the Optane was re-installed.

 

From here you may want to listen with Samsung drive removed. You could use a streaming service (Tidal or Qobux) or move a few files to the Optane. Either way, this is an easy test to do and you may be surprised at the difference.

 

Also consider moving the Optane between various M.2 slots. Closer to the CPU and/or a CPU direct slot can impact SQ.

Looking at the picture above, my guess is that you are using an Asus ROG MAXIMUS XI FORMULA motherboard. That board has two M.2 slots connected to the PCH. You could try an external M.2 PCIE adapter board to avoid the 4 lane PCH connection. Your board can handle 3 simultaneous M.2 drives operating in the 4 m.2 slot ASUS Hyper M.2 PCIE adapter card.

 

https://www.asus.com/support/FAQ/1037507/

 

There are dual m.2 PCIE m.2 low profile adapter cards from Supermicro that may be a better fit for your case.

 

Remember to enable PCIE bifurcation in the bios to get this working.

[R1200CL]

@lmitche

 

Would an Optane in a SonicTransporter make a difference?

I have an early i5 version. 
 

Since I’m using Roon, would a NUC with Optane and ROCK likely to be a good option. (I have a NUC available). 
 

I’m storing my music on a Qnap TS-453 Pro, using SSD’s. 
 

What is your best suggestion based on my HW in order to test out Optane?
 

 

 

 

[lmitche]

9 hours ago, R1200CL said:

@lmitche

 

Would an Optane in a SonicTransporter make a difference?

I have an early i5 version. 
 

Since I’m using Roon, would a NUC with Optane and ROCK likely to be a good option. (I have a NUC available). 
 

I’m storing my music on a Qnap TS-453 Pro, using SSD’s. 
 

What is your best suggestion based on my HW in order to test out Optane?
 

 

 

 

I don't know the details of the SonicTransporter design. If it is a standard Intel machine with an M.2 slot you are likely to gain a SQ advantage with an Optane boot drive. 

 

Yes, NUCs with a M.2 port benefit from an boot Optane boot drive.

[R1200CL]

On 9/30/2020 at 11:49 AM, lmitche said:

Yes, NUCs with a M.2 port benefit from an boot Optane boot drive.

This will work with ROCK ?

So it doesn’t matter so much where music is stored ?

 

I think there exist Optane M.2 cards that can act as combined RAM and SSD. Is that version recommended ? Or just use normal RAM ?

 

Do you know if there exists NUC boards with SFP / SFP+ interfaces ?

(I suppose this can also be added into a PCI slot). 
 

I happen to have this housing available, so basically I would be looking for a NUC board that supports ROCK, as I suppose it’s better to use instead of Windows.

 

What is best considered NUC board today for ROCK ?

Any I7 NUC board ?

 

I was hoping one 12V? (Like Paul Hynes SR4T) power supply would be enough, but open to suggestions if more complex solutions is the advice. 

 

 

 

[lmitche]

3 minutes ago, R1200CL said:

This will work with ROCK ?

So it doesn’t matter so much where music is stored ?

 

I think there exist Optane M.2 cards that can act as combined RAM and SSD. Is that version recommended ? Or just use normal RAM ?

 

Do you know if there exists NUC boards with SFP / SFP+ interfaces ?

(I suppose this can also be added into a PCI slot). 
 

I happen to have this housing available, so basically I would be looking for a NUC board that supports ROCK, as I suppose it’s better to use instead of Windows.

 

What is best considered NUC board today for ROCK ?

Any I7 NUC board ?

 

I was hoping one 12V? (Like Paul Hynes SR4T) power supply would be enough, but open to suggestions if more complex solutions is the advice. 

 

 

 

Hi R1200CL,

 

I don't know much about Rock. I run a customized version of Audiolinux here.

 

There are new RAM and SSD versions of Optane. I haven't tried them.

 

I don't know of any NUCs with SFP ports.

 

I would expect most NUCS to work well powered by the 12Volt PH SR4.

 

Larry

[phusis]

For what it's worth: 

 

Today found out that my Samsung EVO 840 SATA SSD was alive and well (about a week ago received a "read error" notification when trying to boot via this drive following a series of boot sequence changes between that and the Kingston M.2, and after several boot attempts failed assumed it was dead), and being that I initially preferred the Samsung over the Kingston as boot drive then continued BIOS tweaking with the former as C: drive. 

 

A friend of mine and I made the following observations by ear in the tweaking process via my budget HTPC: X.M.P. disabled proved the better sonic option (i.e.: 2133MHz), and we then set our minds/ears trying to figure out if the different options in 'Memory Enhancement Settings' made a sonic difference - they do. Shifting between each single setting from 'Relax OC' to 'High Density' (we passed on DDR 4500+) we honed in on exactly those two "outer" settings as the best sounding ones; 'Relax OC' sported a musically very inspiring and whole presentation albeit a wee bit too rounded, with 'High Density' being, surprisingly, of a similar-ish sonic cloth though noticeably more insightful, distinct and resolved. More monitor in the best sense of the word with a lovely sonic balance. 'High Performance' and 'High Frequency' settings sounded thinner and more overtly detail-oriented, while 'Normal' - though quite pleasing sounding - appeared rather dull overall. 

 

It's amazing how easily audible these different settings were to our ears. Theory had to go by the wayside (i.e.: theory-based assumptions into sonic implications), and listening ruled. 

[jcn3]

On 10/1/2020 at 10:32 AM, R1200CL said:

This will work with ROCK ?

So it doesn’t matter so much where music is stored ?

 

I think there exist Optane M.2 cards that can act as combined RAM and SSD. Is that version recommended ? Or just use normal RAM ?

 

Do you know if there exists NUC boards with SFP / SFP+ interfaces ?

(I suppose this can also be added into a PCI slot). 
 

I happen to have this housing available, so basically I would be looking for a NUC board that supports ROCK, as I suppose it’s better to use instead of Windows.

 

What is best considered NUC board today for ROCK ?

Any I7 NUC board ?

 

I was hoping one 12V? (Like Paul Hynes SR4T) power supply would be enough, but open to suggestions if more complex solutions is the advice. 

 

 

 

 

rock is very easy to install and doesn't require that much processing power (unless you're doing heavy dsp stuff). i've used i5 processors without issue.

[R1200CL]

18 hours ago, jcn3 said:

 

rock is very easy to install and doesn't require that much processing power (unless you're doing heavy dsp stuff). i've used i5 processors without issue.

I know. Have a NUC with ROCK not in use. 
So are you confirming that ROCK will work with Optane SSD and RAM ?

[jcn3]

1 hour ago, R1200CL said:

I know. Have a NUC with ROCK not in use. 
So are you confirming that ROCK will work with Optane SSD and RAM ?

 

Nope, only replying to your cpu question that there is no real "best" cpu for ROCK (depends on your situation) and that than i5 can work well.

[charlesphoto]

I run ROCK on a 7i5 and the i5's seem to be the sweet spot between speed, power use, and price. 

 

I'm about to put my mine in an Akasa fanless case, and am going to redo the RAM and OS disk as the one's that came with mine were from a cheap eBay build and may be the cause of having to constantly restore the Roon database whenever I update or power down the NUC. So I'm interested in the Optane option as well - from what I gather it does work, and can be configured/used as a normal drive in the 7i5. But need to do a bit more research and would be great if somebody on here jumped in with a definitive. 

[Topk]

On 10/1/2020 at 4:38 PM, lmitche said:

Hi R1200CL,

 

I don't know much about Rock. I run a customized version of Audiolinux here.

 

There are new RAM and SSD versions of Optane. I haven't tried them.

 

I don't know of any NUCs with SFP ports.

 

I would expect most NUCS to work well powered by the 12Volt PH SR4.

 

Larry

Do you know if we can you use the M10 Optane that Streamfidelity bought for an AMD motherboard? I did some research but I’m not clear if it’s compatible or not. Based on your prior posts I do think we can but want to make sure before I invest. Thank you!

[Topk]

On 4/12/2021 at 11:33 AM, Topk said:

Do you know if we can you use the M10 Optane that Streamfidelity bought for an AMD motherboard? I did some research but I’m not clear if it’s compatible or not. Based on your prior posts I do think we can but want to make sure before I invest. Thank you!

Well, I ordered one so will report...

[Topk]

I bought an Intel Optane M10 (the latest version) and put it on my Asus MB for AMD Ryzen (Rog Strix B550-E). Boots and works perfectly with Euphony. Took the 16gb one since it has the lowest active power consumption (2W vs 3.5W for the 64gb). Sound wise, it’s fine however jury is out for now.