Grimm Audio MU1 and MU2 Music Players

[FredM]

On 1/5/2023 at 6:22 AM, Low325 said:

I would have never known the MU1 would be the “gateway drug”, taking it to the next level when things just became music

Haha, “gateway drug” 🤣🤣

A dealer gets whole other meaning 😄

[Nicholas Dong]

2023/1/5下午1点46分，Low325说：

哇，你有一些很棒的听力，区分了MU1 SQ对屏幕亮度水平的影响。我本以为只要关掉屏幕就能对SQ产生最大的影响，而不是中间的东西......？有趣。如何在不重置MU1的情况下找到默认设置？也许扩展的实验也是命令..嗯？

 

关于显示器......过去有一个技巧，你可以在v1.4.x中关闭白色LED。我曾经能够从各种待机模式中“唤醒”，在关闭白色LED的情况下，我将能够像往常一样控制MU1。在v1.5中，我无法偶然发现这个（错误？）不再...

Need to restore to the default settings, the only way is to reset MU1, in the process of my hearing comparison, I found that the SQ with the default settings is the best, I have upgraded the 1.5 firmware, but I have not heard whether 1.5 is positive for SQ  or negative impact

[dsyzling]

On 1/6/2023 at 9:04 PM, FredM said:

For me this setup has 3 main advantages:

• For stereo I’m using a dedicated power line and separated ground/earthing. By converting to Toslink (=glass/fiber) the AV and Stereo remain isolated 👍. The ADC is powered by a standard smtp plug, on the normal house grid.
• Thanks to a recent MU1 firmware update it’s possible to set a source specific volume level. This means I can adjust the Toslink input volume so that it matches with the other channels (I haven’t tried this setting yet, I guess I try it out when I in for a movie).
• Ease of use. The Toslink/AV input is easy to choose via the selector knob on top of the MU1, easy to explain to others. (The LS1 speakers also have a direct analogue input which I guess can be used, but I haven’t tried these as I’m keen to isolate the stereo set (see point 1).)

 

 

@FredMThanks for the very detailed information - that's really useful. Yes I'd expect that the A->D and D->A + additional processing would cause delays which would need to be accounted for through the front L/R.

 

So when you change the volume on the AV amp when you're watching a movie that changes the volume automatically on all 4 speakers (including the LS1s)? I guess you didn't go through an Audessy style calibration process for the 4 speakers with this configuration - I've no idea whether this would work at all. 

 

I like the way you've separated the Audio from the AV sections as well.

 

I have similar requirements to yourself, I'd like to integrate surround sound but music is the priority. Sometimes it's actually a pain, I mean I don't need all of these amps just to watch the news, but with TV sound so poor these days you almost need a defacto soundbar with a TV.

 

I think an LS1 as a centre might be a bit 'rich' for me, somehow I don't think nano legs will be a huge discount  :-)   

 

[PYP]

16 minutes ago, dsyzling said:

I think an LS1 as a centre might be a bit 'rich' for me, somehow I don't think nano legs will be a huge discount  :-)   

 

but can be cute:

 

[FredM]

13 hours ago, dsyzling said:

So when you change the volume on the AV amp when you're watching a movie that changes the volume automatically on all 4 speakers (including the LS1s)? I guess you didn't go through an Audessy style calibration process for the 4 speakers with this configuration - I've no idea whether this would work at all. 

Yes, to control the volume during AV playback, I only adjust it on the AV receiver. All channels are controlled.

After connecting the Front L/R via the AV Pre out/Toslink/MU1 I did the Audessy setup/calibration. It’s possible to assign the Pre outs to the Front L/R channels.

[soupcon]

On 1/4/2023 at 3:12 PM, PYP said:

Purchasing the LS1be would mean selling my DAC, mono amps, speakers, cables.  Not a small step (purchasing the MU1 was very simple by comparison).  But Eelco's description was very compelling and I know you love your LS1bes.  I would have to convince myself first, and then my wife (if she likes the way the speakers look that would be helpful ☺️ ).   In the meantime, I'm at the point of asking myself what else I would want given how enjoyable the setup is now (the answer might be "nothing else").

 

i was happy to sell all of my separates over time. i first went to powered speakers (and proved to myself that you could get high end sound from them--most pro rigs have such awful sources that you would never hear them at their best) and then later gleefully sold my expensive dac and got kii's. now, I'm not convinced that they're better than the LS1be's but they fit into my space much better than those would. and my system has never sounded better. i can quite imagine based on what i've achieved with this system that the Mu1 + Ls1be's would be ridiculously good. i did get tweaky with what cables i still need, and that's been fun, but i'm glad not to have to think about interconnect and speaker cables. 

 

 

[Low325]

Small little update released today, 1.5.1. Went in without a hitch!

 

also if anyone is using a Tambaqui. You have an app and firmware update. In the firmware my requests have been answered about the dimmable LEDs lol!

[PYP]

3 hours ago, Low325 said:

Small little update released today, 1.5.1. Went in without a hitch!

The MU 1.5.1 update seemed to take a little longer than usual.  Just FYI to those impatient audiophiles who might think it is frozen mid-update.

 

Also, there is an update for Roon.

 

 

[Low325]

20 hours ago, PYP said:

Also, there is an update for Roon.

I didn’t know!  Updates galore and the week is not even over yet! 

[pvanosta]

This morning I have an issue with my MU1. After the latest update (roon and the MU1 firmware), I wanted to listen to music for the first time (no time during the week). On my Ipad, I see the track playing, but there is no sound coming out of my Grimm Ls1 speakers. The display on the MU1 indicates the correct file (type) is streaming. On the web UI I re-check all the settings and everything looks normal. No sound.

I managed to shut down and reboot the MU1, but the problem persists. I see nothing in the settings on the MU1 that looks any different that before...

[pvanosta]

I have screenshots of my settings. Maybe I'm missing something...

[TheAttorney]

59 minutes ago, pvanosta said:

I managed to shut down and reboot the MU1, but the problem persists. I see nothing in the settings on the MU1 that looks any different that before...

I'm sure you've checked, but just in case, have you gone through all of Roon's device/output/volume settings?

 

My MU1 and Roon updates went smoothly, although as PYP mentioned, the MU1 update took a while - it seems to hang for several minutes, with the rolling 3 progress square dots frozen on a single dot. But given a bit more time, it got going again.

 

Regarding SQ, MU1 continues to be largely immune to Roon version updates - it continues to sound great over the last few updates, and it wasn't even impacted by the big Roon ARC release. Also, I retried a couple of tweaks previously suggested:

 

1. The MU1 display brightness setting. Someone suggested that the original, default brightness setting sounded best. Resetting MU1 puts the brightness to maximum (which is retina-scorching in a darkened room). I tried this compared to various levels of dimming and I couldn't reliably tell which was best, or even whether there was any difference beyond the usual placebo effects. So I'm not going to worry any more about this one, and I'm certainly not going back to the maximum brightness setting.

 

2. Disabling Roon's karaoke-style lyrics option in the Now Playing screen. This does seem to make a subtle, but worthwhile, difference. Disabling this option seems to give a slightly more transparent and lively presentation (similar effect to other established tweaks like removing DSP filters, etc). Weirdly, the effect is there even if there are no karaoke-style lyrics available for that particular song. So I've disabled this option, as you can still get a static lyrics display at various places, including Album View, Now Playing View and Queue View.

 

 

 

[pvanosta]

Just as an additional check: I switched my Roon ROCK from outputting to the the MU1 to a media streamer connected to my TV/Soundbar. Music plays without a hitch. So the issue is not with Roon or the Roon Core (which is a dedicated fanless NUC), but something in the MU1 / LS1 combo.

[pvanosta]

38 minutes ago, TheAttorney said:

I'm sure you've checked, but just in case, have you gone through all of Roon's device/output/volume settings?

I believe I have. I go to Roon / settings / audio and look for the MU1. Click on the cog wheel. Everything is set up as default.

Where else should I be looking?

 

[pvanosta]

I think I fixed it. In the MU1 settings, I activated 'second out' to LS1, by pressing the bronze knob twice. Music playing is restored.

 

Not sure why it needed that. Also not sure that setting was active before.

Anyway, playing DSD64 in native lossless as I type this... phew...

[Caso]

1 hour ago, TheAttorney said:

I'm sure you've checked, but just in case, have you gone through all of Roon's device/output/volume settings?

 

My MU1 and Roon updates went smoothly, although as PYP mentioned, the MU1 update took a while - it seems to hang for several minutes, with the rolling 3 progress square dots frozen on a single dot. But given a bit more time, it got going again.

 

Regarding SQ, MU1 continues to be largely immune to Roon version updates - it continues to sound great over the last few updates, and it wasn't even impacted by the big Roon ARC release. Also, I retried a couple of tweaks previously suggested:

 

1. The MU1 display brightness setting. Someone suggested that the original, default brightness setting sounded best. Resetting MU1 puts the brightness to maximum (which is retina-scorching in a darkened room). I tried this compared to various levels of dimming and I couldn't reliably tell which was best, or even whether there was any difference beyond the usual placebo effects. So I'm not going to worry any more about this one, and I'm certainly not going back to the maximum brightness setting.

 

2. Disabling Roon's karaoke-style lyrics option in the Now Playing screen. This does seem to make a subtle, but worthwhile, difference. Disabling this option seems to give a slightly more transparent and lively presentation (similar effect to other established tweaks like removing DSP filters, etc). Weirdly, the effect is there even if there are no karaoke-style lyrics available for that particular song. So I've disabled this option, as you can still get a static lyrics display at various places, including Album View, Now Playing View and Queue View.

 

 

 

Thanks for the continuous suggestions but I can't find the Karaoke style option for the text...

[Nicholas Dong]

2小时前，TheAttorney说：

我相信你已经检查过了，但以防万一，你是否浏览了Roon的所有设备/输出/卷设置？

 

我的MU1和Roon更新进展顺利，尽管正如PYP所提到的，MU1更新花了一段时间——它似乎挂了几分钟，滚动的3个进度方点冻结在一个点上。但再多一点时间，它又开始了。

 

关于SQ，MU1在很大程度上仍然对Roon版本更新免疫——在过去的几次更新中，它听起来仍然很棒，甚至不受Roon ARC大版本的影响。此外，我重审了之前建议的几个调整：

 

1.MU1显示亮度设置。有人建议，原始的默认亮度设置听起来最好。重置MU1可以最大限度地提高亮度（在黑暗的房间里进行视网膜灼热）。与不同程度的调光相比，我尝试了这个，我无法可靠地判断哪个是最好的，甚至无法确定除了通常的安慰剂效果外，是否还有其他区别。因此，我不会再担心这个了，我当然不会回到最大亮度设置。

 

2.在“播放中”屏幕中停用 Roon 的卡拉OK 风格歌词选项。这似乎确实产生了微妙但值得的区别。禁用此选项似乎可以提供略微透明和生动的演示文稿（类似于删除DSP过滤器等其他既定调整）。奇怪的是，即使那首特定歌曲没有卡拉OK风格的歌词，效果也是存在的。因此，我禁用了这个选项，因为您仍然可以在各个地方获得静态歌词显示，包括专辑视图、正在播放视图和队列视图。

 

 

 

Does turning off ROON's karaoke lyrics option also work on the mobile version of ROON, I didn't find an option on karaoke on ios version of ROON,Thanks

[TheAttorney]

1 hour ago, Caso said:

Thanks for the continuous suggestions but I can't find the Karaoke style option for the text...

On the Now Playing view, hit the settings icon on the top right corner. There you can choose which extra info is to be displayed. One of these is Lyrics. You can also change the display order of the info by grabbing and moving each option - a very nice feature.

 

58 minutes ago, Nicholas Dong said:

Does turning off ROON's karaoke lyrics option also work on the mobile version of ROON, I didn't find an option on karaoke on ios version of ROON,Thanks

I don't use mobile Roon, but it wouldn't surprise me if some extra features would not be available on mobile.

 

On local Roon, my Remote Control iPad shows the full set of features and settings for Now Playing view, but my Remote Control smart phone shows hardly any features, which is not surprising. 

[Ronnie112]

Can't find karaoke on my mobile, so wouldn't know how to switch that off ;-) Anyways, as stated before, I do hear a subtle difference with the display fully off, as if the treble is more airy and open. Dimming the display provides no difference, but turning it off does, with me. Maybe my rig is very revealing and/or sensitive for this. Even my amp has no IR remote control, as the maker (SPEC) believes it could be in the way the musical engagement. I am inclined to be a believer. And yes, DSP and all other bells and whistles are still off as well. Loving vanilla I guess.

[Ronnie112]

1 hour ago, TheAttorney said:

On the Now Playing view, hit the settings icon on the top right corner. There you can choose which extra info is to be displayed. One of these is Lyrics. You can also change the display order of the info by grabbing and moving each option - a very nice feature.

 

I don't use mobile Roon, but it wouldn't surprise me if some extra features would not be available on mobile.

 

On local Roon, my Remote Control iPad shows the full set of features and settings for Now Playing view, but my Remote Control smart phone shows hardly any features, which is not surprising. 

Next time I should write faster, not to have our messages crossing. Thanks Attorney, dusted off an old tablet and found the settings to turn lyrics off. Seems to kill all lyrics, but as I wasn't using them anyway, that isn't a loss. Sarah Neutkens is playing her strings now and must say, sounding peaceful.

[PYP]

5 hours ago, TheAttorney said:

Regarding SQ, MU1 continues to be largely immune to Roon version updates - it continues to sound great over the last few updates, and it wasn't even impacted by the big Roon ARC release. Also, I retried a couple of tweaks previously suggested:

 

@TheAttorneySince you like to experiment, have you tried an external grounding box with the MU1?

 

I've been reading about two.  Computer Audio Design is based in your general geographic area:  https://www.computeraudiodesign.com/gc1-ground-control/   And Shunyata Research is in the US:  https://shunyata.com/products/grounding/altaira/     

 

The logic of these devices makes sense to me.  The two designers seem to agree on the sources of noise (signal ground and earth ground) and a similar way to address it.   Both companies seem to believe in in-home demos, which is a positive sign to me.   

 

Given my setup, I'm most interested in anyone who has tried these with both the MU1 and the Mola Mola Tambaqui   (perhaps @Low325  is interested in doing my work for me?)   Neither the MU1 nor the Tambaqui has grounding posts on the chassis, so one of the spare inputs would be the logical point of connection.  

 

I'm also curious about how these might be used with the LS1 since I've been reading more about their architecture.  

 

 

[The Computer Audiophile]

4 hours ago, pvanosta said:

Anyway, playing DSD64 in native lossless as I type this... phew...

 

Where does the conversion to PCM take place, in the MU1 or the LS1, and to what frequency is it converted? Just curious how this system works. It's a great concept. 

[pvanosta]

15 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

 

Where does the conversion to PCM take place, in the MU1 or the LS1, and to what frequency is it converted? Just curious how this system works. It's a great concept. 

As far as I can tell, the system plays native DSD up to DSD128 (limitation of the DAC in the LS1), but I will double check the signal path tomorrow morning at my next listening session. And I can also compare it to what it does with a DSD256 file.

[The Computer Audiophile]

1 minute ago, pvanosta said:

As far as I can tell, the system plays native DSD up to DSD128 (limitation of the DAC in the LS1), but I will double check the signal path tomorrow morning at my next listening session. And I can also compare it to what it does with a DSD256 file.

 

I believe the LS1 resamples all audio to a single PCM rate, unrelated to the audio being played. It's the way almost all active speakers work. Without this, there are really huge hurdles to overcome and the user experience can be subpar. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

I believe this PDF from Grimm explains it https://www.grimmaudio.com/wp-content/uploads/speakers.pdf

 

Quote

the sampling rate is set to 93.75kHz instead of one of the more traditional audio rates. This is specifi- cally done to improve the performance of the SRC chip. An uncommon clock frequency reduces the odds that mix products between the incoming clock and the internal clock fall inside the PLL loop bandwidth of the SRC.