Building a DIY Music Server

[ASRMichael]

15 minutes ago, gererick said:

I believe I purchased my Sean Jacobs 19V DC3 power supply for in the range of $1,500 or $1,600.  There are competing options at around this amount which may offer comparable performance.  The cost of a high-power DIY server is similarly manageable.  In 1985, one could purchase a Yugo for $3,990.  A new Yugo is no longer available.

I found adding more rails gave more value. E.g. 6-7 rails powering 4 devices made more economic sense/value.

[ASRMichael]

42 minutes ago, lmitche said:

OK, so thanks to everyone for your thoughtful feedback on the role of software in the sound quality equation. While there seems to be no overall consensus, the level of passion this topic engenders is impressive.

 

Nenon is right, I am interested in the 80 - 20 rule of music server sound quality. It would be sad to see people think that great digital playback can only be achieved with exotic power supplies and music servers that cost as much as a new car.

 

Enjoy your systems and be well,

 

Larry

I believe in the 80/20 rule also. 80% being the power supply that is! 

[ASRMichael]

The best sata cable is no data cable! I recently turned on sata controller to listen to internal storage. Wasn’t on for long. Even with good LPS, it’s just too noisy. 

[ASRMichael]

If really want to go for local storage, Why not go for a PCIe? If have a spare port? Like Taiko? 

[ASRMichael]

16 minutes ago, MarcelNL said:

I plan to do so tonight....IF I get Daphile to copy a file to another location ....probably IRL not very practical as I'd need to copy a couple of albums to the Optane drive (16Gb) remove the HDD and listen-repeat...

I expect the results will be almost similar to playing an album from memory with the external drive removed and Optane only used as OS ROM, but we'll see....

 

The hunt for the evasive Apacer ECC Ram continues....what is it that I so frequently end up on a quest for unobtanium...hope this one is easier than getting a Shigefusa Kitaeji Santoku in 200mm.

Apacer ECC ram is here

 

model - D31.23185S.001

 

https://www.mouser.co.uk/ProductDetail/apacer/d3123185s001/?qs=Cb2nCFKsA8prqNusSnCNZw==&countrycode=GB&currencycode=GBP

[ASRMichael]

Just now, MarcelNL said:

TA, mate ;-)

 

I'll try check if it fits and will order, plenty of time to tinker now we are entering our second lockdown.

If in the states, just click top right. US in stock also. 

[ASRMichael]

6 minutes ago, StreamFidelity said:

 

Thanks for link. 

I don't know if it means anything. The RAM latency is rather average: CL19 / 2666 MHz = Calculated nanoseconds 14.25.

I use CL10 / 2400 MHz = Calculated nanoseconds 8.33.

I’ve never tested the difference from CL10 to CL19 myself. If I recall correctly it was Marcin at JCAT & Nenon that reported the CL19 was a step up on previous versions. Is the CL10 a newer or older model? 

[ASRMichael]

If anyone interested This is the NUC version. Apacer SO-Dimm. 1 x 8gb
 

https://www.mouser.co.uk/ProductDetail/apacer/d2323240s004/?qs=GBLSl2AkiruWco00G6Jb1Q==&countrycode=GB&currencycode=GBP

[ASRMichael]

7 minutes ago, MarcelNL said:

thanks, I ordered 2 so I won't be testing with 4. I think my gut feeling is confirmed by what you wrote...less is more. 

I use 2! No need for more. 

[ASRMichael]

24 minutes ago, gererick said:

 

Yes, with Euphony, caching, etc., the NAS is just fine, but it doesn't sound quite as good as streaming (close, but not quite as good). 

 

And the NAS is just a few feet away.  So from a proximity standpoint, the NAS or local storage should sound better than streaming.  

 

The NAS only has to go through ethernet cable (and through the PF Buffalo).

 

Streaming is sourced many miles away, goes through more conversions (Verizon Fios, ONT box, coax, router, coax again, router extender, ethernet cable, PF Buffalo).  Plus whatever processes it went through before getting onto the Verizon Fios network.  My routers are Verizon routers, not audiophile grade (yet).  One would think that the NAS (a fine Synology DS218) shouldn't have difficulty beating streaming.  But it seems to be the rule and the norm, from what I've read of others' experiences who have invested in their streaming equipment and local storage.  Perhaps others have written why this is so.

 

Whatever Euphony is caching from the NAS presumably includes some bits that got out of place somehow (that is a non-technical supposition).  Or perhaps the process of burning CDs onto a hard drive introduced errors that are not present in streamed material.

 

Minor differences in SQ, though.  Things like digital glare, leading edge on piano, background vocals separation and prominence, but subtle when comparing.

 

Between the NAS and the PF Buffalo, I have a decent Cardas ethernet cable.  Between the router extender and the Buffalo, an unshielded, low cost but good Monoprice, I believe.  Both can be improved on, but the ethernet cable coming out of the router extender isn't a top performer.

 

I will be trying my etherREGEN in front of my PF Buffalo with fiber optic cable in between, and will see if that changes things.

I agree, NAS doesn’t sound as good. We’ve still to under so much about digital music! 
 

I use my NUC with SJ LPS. M.2 for storage. OS - Euphony, just running SMB Server. 
 

Hopefully once I get new JCAT card, I can move my old JCAT card to the NUC. 

[ASRMichael]

1 minute ago, MarcelNL said:

this remark was avout the Apacer RAM BTW, now with extended listening, cleaner power grid etc, the differences are even larger and clearer. Especially now I added a decent power cord to the computer..incredible how that affected the low end. bits are bits, yeah sure...love this hobby!

Love this hobby....
 

It can be really good at times...then not so good! After two years of substantial system changes/upgrades it all came to an end! I feel depressed!!! Just shows how much a hobby this is to me! 
 

Was thinking of starting an AA group! Audiophiles Anonymous! It’s been 30 days since my last purchase! 
 

Joking aside! Enjoy! 👍

[ASRMichael]

1 hour ago, Nenon said:

 

You should try Windows LTSC and ProcessLasso. 

I will be publishing a guide for tweaking Windows for this motherboard sometime next year. Planning to share everything I've learned since April. I am also working with Emile from Taiko on testing some of his technology that will most likely treacle down to the DIY market sometime next year. This coming year will be very exciting for DIY. 

Just when I thought I’ve just had my last purchase!!!!!!

[ASRMichael]

20 minutes ago, ray-dude said:

 

But SO satisfying then it all clicks, you look at the diagram, and you know exactly where to make tweaks (and then they work!)

 

(and spot on insights, thank you @OAudio!)

Hi, are you tweaking the Extreme? 

[ASRMichael]

1 hour ago, ray-dude said:

I can't help myself!  ;)

 

I'm on the alpha for Taiko Audio Server (the Taiko music player) and I'm doing a lot of experiments with upsampling right now.  Learning a lot about how to tweak up the Extreme to different configs.  Looking forward to the Taiko USB card at some point, which should be a game changer (the block diagram will show why ;).  I suspect there will be a part 6 to my Extreme review at some point (one year in type of thing), once the tweaks and updates accumulate a bit more.

I envy you! I’m sure that’s what I’d be doing if i had an Extreme! 👍

[ASRMichael]

20 minutes ago, Nenon said:

Merry Christmas to everyone!

 

As some of you may already know, I am evaluating some of Taiko's technology and working with Emile pretty much on daily basis. Impressive stuff, as you may expect. He is willing to share some of his technology with the DIY community to speed up some of the research and development. What a great idea! And I have made a commitment to help him evaluate what would be most suitable for DIY. No financial interest on my side. It's purely passion-driven, and it's an honor for me that he trusted me to do that. 

 

There is a specific process we need to go through that involves several rounds of tests, tweaks, redesigns, and repeats. Some of the exotic components he is using are not suitable for DIY, so they have to be replaced with good sounding but more affordable and more accessible parts. Exactly what is being tested would remain private until some more decisions are made

 

The plan is to come up with a generic DIY recipe that includes a list of everything you need - chassis, passive cooling, hardware components, OS, software, power supply recommendations, tweaking, etc.

There is a big chance that he might be able to make his USB card and more importantly his TAS software available for this particular DIY hardware, but there is still a lot of things to be decided. 

 

In any case, 2021 would be exciting for DIY music servers. Looking forward to it!

Santa has just come early knowing this....have great xmas everyone! 

[ASRMichael]

1 hour ago, genvirt said:

Hi all! (sorry for my not really good English)

Finally here is my two cent:)
First I want to THANK to all who supports me in this build and was very patient and helpful, especially to @nenon , who opened this wonderful thread and gave me a full support for my endless questions and much more, and to @elan120 who also support me in all issues.
So, it starts one summer weekend day, when I bumped up into this thread, while looking for “how to improve my three year old PC sound”, it took me two days for finish reading all this and the decision had fall.
I decided to build Nenon’s built (his summer configuration):
…

H5 2nd Gen Fanless PC Case

HDPLEX 800W DC-ATX with 16V-63VDC Input

ASUS ROG Crosshair VII Hero AMD Ryzen 2 AM4 DDR4 M.2 USB 3.1 Gen2 ATX X470

AMD Ryzen 7 3700X

Apacer ECC RAM (2x4gb)

USB CARD XE

NET CARD XE

Intel Optane Memory M.2 2280 32GB PCIe NVMe 3.0 x 2 (MEMPEK1W032GAXT)

…
Also I decided to build PSU that will “feed this all”, after searching and learning I‘ll going to build DIY PSU based on Dr. Sean Jacobs components (elan120 post great instructions that I’ll be using), for now all staff had comes finally to me and I can start with (hope soon I will), but this will be an another story:)
For PSU I ordered Modushop chassis that have 13 heigh front plate and by advise of Nenon I ordered one more plate for using as a front panel of PC for “set looking” staff. 
After thinking a while I decided to add heigh to HDPlex chassis that will suit 13cm front panel and for vertical installation of 800w dc-atx. For this I ordered two side panels of same H5 HDPlex chassis and cut them (maybe if I were start it today, I would using Modushop chassis for PC straight ahead ).
Well, there were a lot of drill and cut work that had been done here:)
I “wasted” one front plate and finally used it as additional separate plate with preparation for additional cooling if it will needed (my CPU temp was quite high and it took me a lot of time to nail it, finally it is much better, but I’m thinking anyway to add a bit more cooling here).
For not being “stuck” without a music while building PSU I added HDPlex 200w AC adapter for a while.

So ,what about the sound?
Oh yes, never my system has sounded such great!
I really love it, straight out of the box it sounds amazing! 
(I’m using Euphony OS and for me it’s the best sounding OS).
At start point I used JCat USB Femto card (from previous PC) and now it exchanged for XE one - wonderful improvement in all aspects (thank You @Marcin_gps!), hope soon to order an JCat XE Net card too.
In the future I’ll exchange internal PC cables for DIY.
Add bit useful info of my project that I centralized (most were posted by Nenon prior actually).

 

 

 

PC parts.pdf 134.89 kB · 4 downloads

Well done on new build. What CPU temps are you getting? 

[ASRMichael]

9 hours ago, genvirt said:

At the beginning it was 70-75C, after rebuilding all heating (put more thermal paste, tighting and so on, now I’m getting 40-45-50C

You should be able to get that lower. Your build is very similar to mine. I'm running at 5.0ghz. Gets good temps. 

[ASRMichael]

5 minutes ago, genvirt said:

 

what do You mean by “running at 5.0ghz” - some bios settings?

My CPU speed

[ASRMichael]

3 hours ago, Nenon said:

What about a logo on the front panel? 

Leave blank (a little cheaper)? Create a DIY logo? I don't really care myself...

Any good designers following this thread? 

Small Logo! “DIY” 

[ASRMichael]

Sound great! Question from the non technical minded! 
 

How would one like myself be able to integrate this with my existing SJ LPS rails for ATX & EPS?

[ASRMichael]

Nenon & Emile current communications routes via all these fiber cables! 

[ASRMichael]

1 minute ago, Exocer said:

Good question.

 

This device should be a drop-in replacement for your HDPlex 400w/800w DC-ATX converter from the sound of it.

 

@Nenon ,Did you also power CPU EPS through your new DC-ATX converter?

That’s the thing. I don’t use DC-ATX. Direct from SJ to ATX & EPS

[ASRMichael]

@Nenon have you considered supplying windows LTSC image (optimized settings) with the bundle? 
 

Having a starting point would be great, base SQ! Then people can tinker to their heart’s content. 

[ASRMichael]

Ok far enough! That’s more than enough to get going. Cheers. Exiting times! 

[ASRMichael]

@nenon will the PSU be a 100% DIY solution, as in you can buy the parts but will need to assemble/wire yourself?