Euphony OS w/Stylus player setup and issues thread

[StreamFidelity]

As you are talking about PCIe cards: I received good news from a customer who said that the XILINX Solarflare Flareon Ultra SFN8522 - network adapter - PCIe 3.1 - 10 Gigabit SFP+ worked right away on Euphony. Anyone who has always wanted to try out Ethernet with fiber optics and is looking for a high-quality NIC with a precise clock and extremely low latencies should give it a try. 😉

 

I wrote here: 

 

[StreamFidelity]

2 hours ago, Joerg D said:

Still, the same album sounds better from the NAS.

 

Yesterday I did a sound check with a sound engineer and we compared Qobuz vs. NAS. For the sound engineer, the difference was even 15% -20% better with NAS! I didn't hear the difference as well as the sound engineer, but NAS sounded better to me too.

[StreamFidelity]

double

[StreamFidelity]

1 hour ago, flkin said:

Since the file is in RAM, try unplugging the lan cable when playing both Qobuz and NAS and see if you still hear the difference. 

 

I guess I know what you're getting at. 😉 There have been many reports that network traffic is interfering with audio output. I think so too, but I have solved it differently (among other things by different core assignment for Ethernet).

 

In connection with our test, however, this don't matter, as both streamed and hard drive came from the NAS (HFX RipNAS Solid). This two PC solution is wanted because the data octopus Roon must be isolated from the audio PC endpoint.

 

A picture should clarify the Ethernet route.

 

 

[StreamFidelity]

14 minutes ago, di-fi said:

It's the noise generated by the NIC during playback.

Many Thanks. This thesis is known to me and the noise exists.

 

This can be restricted with measures:

53 minutes ago, StreamFidelity said:

but I have solved it differently (among other things by different core assignment for Ethernet).

and switch off network card adapters that are not used, use high-quality NICs such as those from Solarflare, etc. I have very good experiences with this.

[StreamFidelity]

I tried Euphony. I like the tidy user interface and the options in RAM for buffering and loading Euphony from RAM.

 

A little prehistory:

 

I am a convinced HQPlayer user and like to use DSD 256 with the modulator ASDM7EC. These algorithms require two cores with at least 4GHz for stereo. No problem for an Intel Core i9-9900K. Since I have a fanless PC, I have to throttle the temperature development. I do this in the BIOS with a fixed clock rate of 4.2GHz. Very high-performance under Windows 10 Pro and without any problems.

 

Unfortunately this does not work under Euphony. Regardless of the setting, two cores are always occupied with 100% utilization.

 

 

It seems to be a problem that has existed for a long time. Too bad.

On 9/17/2019 at 7:23 PM, ASRMichael said:

Now with Euphony...........In Ramroot and non RAM Root (HQ player and Roon Server)

 

The settings above simply do not work. Here what I have tried;

 

Settings above - Stuttering/skipping. All 3 processors maxed out at 99-100%%.

Removed Core isolation, given me back 1 extra core, so 4 in total, All 4 processors maxed out at 99-100%%, still skipping.

Turned on Turbo increasing from 2.9Ghz to 3.6Ghz, All 4 processors maxed out at 96-99%. still skipping

Turned on Hyper Threading - All 4 processors maxed out at 95-98-100%. still skipping

Even defaulted my Bios, run everything as standard, still same result. 

Running from Sandisk USB, tried another brand, Tried with and without Ramrrot - No difference

[StreamFidelity]

24 minutes ago, ASRMichael said:

Do you have the same issue with HQP Embedded linux image?

 

No idea. I haven't tried it. I think the Euphony has the HQPlayer 4 Embedded 4.20.3 from January. So a bit out of date but new enough.

 

Incidentally, PCM works very well.

[StreamFidelity]

1 hour ago, ASRMichael said:

How have you found Euphony versus your optmized Windows?

 

The advantages of Euphony are the ease of use, the updates at the push of a button and the few processes running. Unfortunately, the core assignment for the HQPlayer is not as efficient as in Windows. It remains to be seen whether a newer version of HQPLayer will fix this problem.

 

The advantages of Windows are that it is widely used with a variety of good tools. But focusing the processes on audio means a lot of work. If that succeeds, Windows sounds great.

[StreamFidelity]

Good news for HQPlayer users with DSD256 and modulator ASDM7EC: It works great!

 

I reported my problems.

Thanks to the excellent customer service from Željko. My Euphony version was adapted to the HQPlayer. The workload shows a high but reduced workload of two cores. The most important thing: no more stuttering, just a melodious sound.

 

The configuration of two cores is normal for stereo. The EC modulator requires at least 4GHz clock frequency for each channel. It works the same way under Windows.

 

 

Of course I also played with core isolation. I had to learn that the HQPlayer always falls back to its own core assignment when the stream starts again. The trick in my case is to leave the first 8 cores to the HQPlayer and distribute the rest. In the picture you can now see that the other cores from Core 8 - 15 are also used. For example CPU 9+10.

 

How did I do that? For Core Isolation I chose this setting: 8-15 hqplayerd 0-7 dhcpcd 1-15

 

Explanation: All programs not listed separately are distributed away from the HQPlayer to the cores 8-15. The HQPlayer stays at 0-7. dhcpcd is important for my Solarflare X2522 NIC, which has to run on as many cores as possible so that the lowest possible latencies can be achieved. I only left out core 0, as this core is usually heavily loaded. This is what it looks like:

 

1067 nfm: 8-15
1078 stylus: 8-15
1178 avahi-daemon:: 8-15
1385 hqplayerd: 0-7
469 / usr / bin / lvmetad: 8-15
641 / usr / bin / haveged: 8-15
661 / usr / bin / acpid: 8-15
711 / usr / bin / dhcpcd: 1-15

 

Overall, the power consumption has been reduced compared to Windows. This is also noticeable in a lower heat development. On average I am now <50°C. Before it was about 10°C more!

 

Summary

 

For me, Euphony has taken the important hurdle of error-free playback with the HQPlayer DSD 256 / ASDM7EC. I have no Linux knowledge and really appreciate the simple, well-designed user interface. The driver for the Solarflare NIC (SFN8522 & X2522) works without any problems. Euphony's ticket system is excellent. I enjoy the great sound.

 

[StreamFidelity]

2 hours ago, NanoSword said:

Did you make any change from BIOS ?

 

Yes a lot of them. Take a look. 😉

On 3/3/2020 at 3:27 PM, StreamFidelity said:

2.1 BIOS

 

BIOS stands for "basic input / output system" and is the firmware on the mainboards. You can access the BIOS settings by clicking the F2 key several times during booting. Screenshots are taken on ASUS boards with the F12 key and e.g. B. stored on a USB stick. There are really a lot of setting options. Below I describe the most important ones I use.

 

2.1.1 BIOS update

 

Before the BIOS configuration and installation of the operating system, the latest BIOS version should be loaded in any case. There are different methods. I like to use the internet connection because it is very straightforward.

 

 

All BIOS settings are lost during the update. At least with this board. Anyone who has already made settings is well advised to save these settings on the USB stick.

 

 

2.1.2 RAM settings

 

The XMP II profile is recommended for system-stable operation. This setting reads out the profile in RAM and applies it.

 

 

2.1.3 CPU clock frequency

 

The most important setting for high performance concerns the clock frequency of the CPU. The Intel Core i9-9900K has a base clock of 3.6GHz. Not enough for the EC modulators of the HQPlayer. At least 4GHz on 3-4 cores are required. The CPU has 8 cores. I experimented with different settings. For example, clocking the first cores higher than the following ones. I did not like it. I stayed with the simple configuration: all cores on 4.1GHz.

 

 

2.1.4 Hyperthreading

 

If the HQPlayer loads complex filters, it will occupy all cores with 100%. To prevent the system from freezing, hyperthreading should be activated. 16 logical processors are then made available. As a result, the computing load can be better distributed.

 

2.1.5 Energy management

 

I am not describing settings for climate protection, but for increasing audiophile PC operation. The rule of thumb is to deactivate all energy saving options! The clock frequency should remain stable at 4.1GHz and not be reduced. The result would otherwise be z. B. Dropouts when playing the music. Deactivating the CPU C-states prevents (among other settings) switching back the clock frequency.

 

 

2.1.6 Temperature development

 

One of the main problems, especially with a passively cooled system, is the temperature development. By reducing the voltage, excessive temperature development can be avoided. However, if the voltage is set too low, the system freezes. The CPU is cooled very well. I therefore set the setting for BLCK Aware Adaptive Voltage to Enabled without fine adjustment.

 

 

In addition, I have the power consumption at 120W with max. 160W limited.

 

 

The CPU i9-9900K can up to max. 100 °C operated. Way to high. I have a max. Temperature set at 95 °C.

 

 

2.1.7 Deactivate functions that are not required

 

Basically, all functions of the board that are not required must be switched off. This saves electricity and promotes trouble-free

operation. In any case, I prefer M.2 SSDs and therefore do not need the SATA controller. That is also one of the reasons why I did not try RAID 0, because otherwise I could not have deactivated SATA.

 

 

I was able to switch off HD audio on this board without any problems. It seems that this also bypasses the problems on Windows. With a digital volume control like with the HQPlayer you have to switch off the Windows system sounds, which can otherwise be quite loud.

 

 

I have deactivated Wi-Fi and Bluetooth.

 

 

There are countless USB ports on the board. I only need three: for keyboard, mouse and USB stick. The assignments can be found in the mainboard manual. The JCAT USB Card Femto uses a PCIe connection and is not affected by these settings.

 

 

2.18 Settings for fanless operation

 

It is very important to deactivate the monitoring of fans or water pumps. Otherwise the system always shows an error message and does not start up.

 

 

[StreamFidelity]

12 hours ago, ASRMichael said:

Have you tried IRQ? With your core isolation?

 

Yes, I tried IRQ. Since I don't use USB, but NAA, the Solarflare NIC assignment was interesting for me. However, I found that I was making it worse. Before my IRQ assignment, Ethernet was nicely split up across each individual core.

 

Example with two cores

 

162:      69405          0          0          0          0          1          0          0          0          0          0          0          0          0          0          0   PCI-MSI 524288-edge      eth0-0

163:          0     491576          0          0          0          0          1          0          0          0          0          0          0          0          0          0   PCI-MSI 524289-edge      eth0-1

After my IRQ assignment, the parallel core was also used. This is bad.

 

Example after the IRQ assignment with irq/162 1 and irq/163 2

 

162:      70837       1874          0          0          0          1          0          0          0          0          0          0          0          0          0          0   PCI-MSI 524288-edge      eth0-0

163:          0     491804        138          0          0          0          1          0          0          0          0          0          0          0          0          0   PCI-MSI 524289-edge      eth0-1

 

Result: In my constellation, it doesn't work. The reason is probably that the Solarflare NIC does its own mapping like HQPlayer. In the BIOS I set the Solarflare firmware to lowest latencies.

[StreamFidelity]

29 minutes ago, davide256 said:

Just ordered this Apacer RAM

 

These are pretty high latencies:

MHz: 3200
CL: 22
Calculated nanoseconds:
13.75

I prefer RAM with CL latency up to 8.8ns. Probably not available from the Apacer brand. justmy2cents

[StreamFidelity]

35 minutes ago, TheAttorney said:

This 2666 speed Apacer sounds better than the 2400 that we had before (and the 2400 was considerably better than Crucial RAM that originally came with my NUC). T

 

I'm not sure if Apacer with ECC should be built into computers without ECC. They have disadvantages because of the high latencies:

MHz: 2666 CL: 19
Calculated nanoseconds: 14.25

 

And they don't have a heat sink.

 

There are good alternatives, for example G.Skill RipJaws V black DIMM kit 16GB, DDR4-3200, CL14-14-14-34 with 8.75ns. I consider low latencies to be one of the key factors behind high SQ. But everyone may see it differently.

[StreamFidelity]

3 hours ago, flkin said:

I had the G.Skill DDR4-3200 ram (latency 8.75ns) in my server before switching to Apacer industrial, ECC, unbuffered, unregistered DDR4-2400 UDIMM (latency 14.2ns) and it was a big step up in sound quality after tuning. I wrote about it and about the RAM factors here:

 

https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/43629-pink-faun-216/?do=findComment&comment=1073511

 

On 8/13/2020 at 4:37 PM, flkin said:

CONCLUSION

 

The best setting for the Apacer industrial DDR4-2400 ECC UDIMM  in the Pink Faun 2.16x (2018 version) running Euphony/Stylus in Ramroot is:

1. RAM - overclocked at 2800MHz @ 1.14 volts

 

Interesting! You made a lot of effort. With this setting you have at least reduced the latency. MHz: 2800 CL: 17 = Calculated nanoseconds: 12.14 😉

 

[StreamFidelity]

13 hours ago, lotusaurus said:

DSD256, ASM7EC,

 

The only thing that helps is contact with the support, which is really good. They set up the system in such a way that the computationally intensive HQPlayer EC modulators run smoothly.

[StreamFidelity]

3 hours ago, Smaragdhk said:

n other words, the consensus seems to be that one will usually get better sound quality separating system OS and music files on different drives.

 

I can confirm that. Computers are based on reading and writing data. And that's probably one of the reasons. In a 2-PC system, one computer causes a lot of "noise" when searching for, reading out and writing back data, while the other only receives and renders the data.

 

2 hours ago, 87mpi said:

I suspect the lan network introduces more disturbances than benefits.

 

The transmission of data via Ethernet is indeed not trivial. Whoever browses here in the forum will find a lot how the SQ can be significantly improved via ethernet. For example with a Solarflare X2522 NIC with fiber optics and an OCXO clock in the switch.

[StreamFidelity]

3 hours ago, KATARRAZZI said:

May i ask what you mean in this content a little bit that the machine that searches, reads and writes data and the machine that receives and displays the data here is a nas/euphony stylus architecture or a euphony architecture  core/stylus endpoint.

 

This principle is independent of the operating system or the player. The point is that when reading and writing data, interrupts are generated in the CPU. And the electronic noise increases. If a music management system such as Roon is still working on the same computer, databases are constantly synchronized over the Internet. If all of this takes place in one PC, you are in chaos.

 

I have very good experiences with separate the music data and the Roon Core on the NAS. The endpoint ist installed on another Audio PC. The end point should ideally only render and forward the music for the DAC. My Audio PC is not connected to the internet. I also do upsampling with the HQPlayer. Some outsource this to further minimize electronic noise.

 

Additionally if Ethernet is galvanically isolated and reclocked, all digital artifacts disappear.

 

Here is my current ethernet topology:

 

[StreamFidelity]

10 hours ago, AudioDoctor said:

I think it would make sense for Euphony to remove HQPlayer from the OS entirely

 

Why? The complete HQPlayer administration interface is accessible under Euphony. Click the HQPlayer icon.

 

It makes more sense to remove the few implausible input fields in Euphony.

[StreamFidelity]

6 hours ago, AudioDoctor said:

And that HQP functionality is greatly expanded when using it outside of Euphony.

 

What kind of functions are they missing in Euphony / HQPlayer?

 

When I open the administration interface of HQPlayer under Euphony (click on the HQPlayer icon!), I get the same GUI as with HQPlayer Embedded.

 

I can set everything that I can do under HQPlayer Embedded. For example the Matrix Pipeline.

[StreamFidelity]

2 hours ago, dminches said:

I don't feel like the sound quality is lacking in any way but I do find it to be buggy. 

 

That's a good point. The whole time the HQPlayer implementation was flawed. Only through courageous intervention by Euphony Support was the HQPlayer at DSD running without stuttering. Since it annoyed me to have to apply for the latest HQPlayer updates, I also stopped using Euphony.

 

I think Euphony is very suitable for users who do not want to have any trouble and use stylus. If you try harder, take a look at the HQPlayer OS. This is even leaner and has recently made Quobuz Streaming possible.

[StreamFidelity]

11 hours ago, biosailor said:

Are you sure about HQP OS being capable of Qobuz streaming?

 Take a look 😉

 

 

[StreamFidelity]

I installed Euphony V4 Beta with RAM Root on the USB stick. An Intel i9-12900K core is used. I tried Stylus with Qobuz. The albums are loaded very fast. 

 

 

In the beta version you can also use upsampling. The computing load for PCM 705.6 is very low and only the E-cores are used.

 

 

Even DSD256 loads the fis audio PC very little. 

 

 

Stylus with HQPlayer has for me a better sound quality, at least if you like upsampling. For PCM 705.6, two P-cores are very lightly loaded. 

 

 

DSD with the EC modulators don't work without stuttering, which is probably due to the outdated HQPlayer (Embedded 4.24?) version. The core allocation is completely inefficient.

 

 

But DSD1024 with a NON-EC modulator works. It sounds wonderful. 

 

[StreamFidelity]

15 minutes ago, di-fi said:

I admit it is a different way of ‘owning’ Euphony, but added to Tidal, Netflix, Qobuz, Roon and other monthly subscriptions it does not sound so bad.

There are two crucial differences:

 

1. Roon still offers the lifetime license in addition to the subscription model:

Quote

You may also switch to lifetime billing for $699.99

 

2. Streaming services like Tidal, Netflix, Qobuz have to pay for the broadcast content. That can only work with a subscription model. Roon or Euphony only provide the software to play. 😉

[StreamFidelity]

On 7/20/2022 at 1:17 PM, Yiakubou said:

I am running dual PC setup.

This is good!

 

On 7/20/2022 at 1:17 PM, Yiakubou said:

If you use Stylus to control HQP, then Stylus only sends playback commands and track links and lets HQP stream all the data and do its own work.

How do you know that?

 

On 7/20/2022 at 1:17 PM, Yiakubou said:

Best solution for me could be if Roon would not stream anything to HQP, but just send commands like Stylus does,

I don't think this is a good solution. You don't use the potential of a dual PC solution. 

 

Every computer is based on reading and writing data. Every operation triggers computing power and interrupts. The cores are prioritized differently. In my experience, the more processes competing for data memory and processing power, the worse the sound. 

 

The sense in a dual PC setup is the task distribution. One PC should take care of the music management and control. The music files are often widely scattered on the hard disk. This compilation can be done very well by Roon and sends a finished package to the second PC. This PC then only has to take care of the rendering. This reduces electronic noise and interruptions at the endpoint. 

 

On 7/20/2022 at 1:17 PM, Yiakubou said:

I've been researching what control apps I could use to control HQP instead of having to pay for Euphony Stylus licence just for that, but unfortunately all apps I've found that I've seen kinda suck.

What apps have you tried and what didn't you like about them?

[StreamFidelity]

29 minutes ago, Helmut said:

I try to get my license transfered to my new board since yesterday

 

Euphony makes this too complicated. Examples to simplify: 

 

When changing the Roon Core, you simply log in to the new device. The old device is automatically deactivated. 

 

The HQPlayer offers a USB license dongle. USB stick to the new machine and that's it. 😉