Mytek Stereo 192

[kennyb123]

For those kind of $s, I'd be thinking about real technology enhancements, like a DAC with perhaps enhanced power supply, clock, ability to deal with say DSD256...before dropping $s on tweaks like Stillpoints, and a $1500 power cable...but that is just me.

 

I think most people move on to the next component before they've heard how good the component they own really is. That was me for my first 15 or so years in this hobby.

 

But then I was introduced to the foundation theory by Roy Gregory. I gave it a shot. By addressing power, resonance control, and signal cables, my system improved dramatically. My system's musicality gained more in the first couple years that it took to establish a proper foundation than it had in the preceding 15 years.

 

Through all this I have found that a system is only as good as its weakest link. As I've addressed the cabling around the Mytek I've learned that it was the cabling that was dragging down the Mytek's performance. The Mytek is that good.

 

Like that Oyaide FW cable. I thought it was good when I first got it. At that time I wasn't really a believer in audiophile digital cables, but the Oyaide was cheap and it was a little better than stock cables. I thought I was set. But I'm so glad a friend convinced me to try something better. I would have dumped the Mytek had it not been for that. The things that were grating on me about the Mytek were actually the fault of that cable. So what sense would it have made to upgrade to a better DAC only to have its performance dragged down by equivalent cabling? The nasties would have remained.

 

A DAC upgrade is coming, as I mentioned. DACs are advancing so quickly. So instead of dumping big bucks into one I've been taking gradual steps every three years. I've spent about the same each time and got a nice bump in improvement every time.

 

And Stillpoints are a must - I have then under all components and my speakers. Once you hear what these do you will know what I mean.

 

This upgrade path must sound strange to you as you don't consider these tweaks to be real technology. It wasn't that long ago that I felt the same way.

 

If you are interested in learning more about the foundation approach, these are good:

 

http://www.theaudiobeat.com/blog/taves_seminar.htm

 

http://www.theaudiobeat.com/blog/taves_seminar_results.htm

[STC]

The best USB Cable upgrade was when I changed the stock cable with a 5 meter $4 to connect from my laptop to Mytek.

 

It is feeding a $4000 amp and $14000 speakers.

[firedog]

I always liked the FW connection on the Mytek 192 better than the USB, until I added in a Schiit Wyrd or an Uptone Regen. Once I did that, I found the USB to be as good or better than the FW.

 

The new Mytek Brooklyn seems to have a lot of improvements over the DSD 192, including an improved USB setup. I difference in price is probably a better deal than spending $thousands on cabling for a DSD 192.

[btomi9]

But those who prefer FW never seem to mention what cables they used when comparing FW to USB.

 

I've argued that the cable makes a far greater difference than the interface.

 

I think folks would be stunned by how much the Mytek's performance can be hindered by both FW and USB cables.

 

I am now auditioning the Audience Au24 USB. To my surprise this is a significant step up from the Lightspeed. The realism I'm hearing particularly from vocals and acoustic instruments is just stunning.

 

I am using AudioQuest Diamond, a pretty expensive firewire cable to my taste, but it was a bargain buying it with the DAC together from the seller, so I think I made a good deal.

[57gold]

I am using AudioQuest Diamond, a pretty expensive firewire cable to my taste, but it was a bargain buying it with the DAC together from the seller, so I think I made a good deal.

 

Have seen those AQ FW cables...seems that they are the only maker of "audiophile" ones?

 

The Oyaide just seems solidly made with better parts than a $20 one and it gave a more open and detailed presentation versus the USB cables I had on hand and the cheap silver FW, a Granite one I bought and an Apple Store version. Do not believe that the AQ FW was available when I bought the Oyaide in early 2011. Got one of the first Mytek DSD192s shipped shortly after starting this thread.

 

Great unit, been wondering about the Manhattan for a bit. Ted has one and plans on commenting on it. Looking forward to his views.

[kennyb123]

The new Mytek Brooklyn seems to have a lot of improvements over the DSD 192, including an improved USB setup. I difference in price is probably a better deal than spending $thousands on cabling for a DSD 192.

 

I would not make that trade. I don't think you would either if you got to hear your DSD 192 with thousands spent on cabling.

 

Fortunately I won't have to make that trade. The Brooklyn is on my list of potential upgrade candidates. I can just drop it in and it will benefit from all the great cabling that's already in place.

[kennyb123]

The best USB Cable upgrade was when I changed the stock cable with a 5 meter $4 to connect from my laptop to Mytek.

 

It is feeding a $4000 amp and $14000 speakers.

 

That's like driving around a high end sports car on four donut spare tires. Why have all those dollars invested in gear and then hinder it by going cheap on cables?

 

Rhetorical question - no need to answer.

[kennyb123]

I always liked the FW connection on the Mytek 192 better than the USB, until I added in a Schiit Wyrd or an Uptone Regen. Once I did that, I found the USB to be as good or better than the FW.

 

Have you tried the AudioQuest Jitterbug yet? If you liked what you heard from the REGEN, there's a good chance you will like the Jitterbug. They compliment each other well. I have a pair of them plus a REGEN.

[kennyb123]

Have seen those AQ FW cables...seems that they are the only maker of "audiophile" ones?

 

This is another reason I try to encourage Mytek owners to not ignore USB just because some have reported that FW sounds better. There are just so many more cable choices for USB. The competition is heating up on USB cables such that one can now get better performance for less money.

 

Great unit, been wondering about the Manhattan for a bit. Ted has one and plans on commenting on it. Looking forward to his views.

 

A big plus of the Brooklyn is that it doesn't require a USB driver for either Mac or Linux. The Manhattan requires the same drivers as the Mytek. This limits its ability to be used with some of the Linux streamers like the Auralic Aries.

 

Yes I know that Auralic claims to support the Mytek. It worked flawlessly when I first got my Aries at the start of the year. No longer.

[57gold]

A big plus of the Brooklyn is that it doesn't require a USB driver for either Mac or Linux. The Manhattan requires the same drivers as the Mytek. This limits its ability to be used with some of the Linux streamers like the Auralic Aries.

 

Try to keep things simple...still do not know what a streamer actually does? So I guess I wouldn't miss that feature.

[kennyb123]

Try to keep things simple...still do not know what a streamer actually does? So I guess I wouldn't miss that feature.

 

In theory the streamer is all about keeping things simple. It's basically a computer that's purpose-built for audio such that it's more of an appliance.

 

There can be a benefit in ease of use and, with some streamers, also improved sound quality. The Aries delivered a significant sound quality improvement over the 2009 Mac Mini that I had been using that was running A+.

[STC]

That's like driving around a high end sports car on four donut spare tires. Why have all those dollars invested in gear and then hinder it by going cheap on cables?

 

Rhetorical question - no need to answer.

 

Not sure about the tires but still having a dedicated single phase for the music system only to discover after a year or so it was the most dirtiest line among the three phase.

 

The USB cable only sending data to the DAC so what diff would it make? If you can't tell them apart in blindtest then don't waste your money but as this a lifestyle so the cable price may affect your taste.

 

I am sure Mytek didn't rip us by offering the cheap generic cable before. Looks like the new DACs are coming with $150 cables. Perhaps, they are wiser now.

[kennyb123]

The USB cable only sending data to the DAC so what diff would it make?

 

Are you really interested in an answer?

 

If you can't tell them apart in blindtest then don't waste your money but as this a lifestyle so the cable price may affect your taste.

 

Ah that explains using a $4 USB cable in a system that supposedly has $14k speakers.

 

If you are so confident that your approach is the correct one, why not list your system in your profile?

[57gold]

Thought again about my cables...have a $1,000 power cable (didn't pay that as I bought it used) attached to Mytek, which I bought for the Wadia 861 that preceded the Mytek. The interconnects from Mytek to amp are Yammamura 5000 balanced in 5 meters, which were pricey 15 years ago (but I can't remember how pricey) and very natural and open sounding on the Theta Gen Va, the Wadia 861, and now the Mytek. So, I do believe cables make a difference.

 

Have not noticed that USB cables make as much of an impact as analog ones, and with USB being such a lame connection requiring Jitterbugs and Regens and $900 cables to make it work well without noise, I have decided to stick with FW, which is used throughout professional audio in recording studios.

[kennyb123]

Have not noticed that USB cables make as much of an impact as analog ones, and with USB being such a lame connection requiring Jitterbugs and Regens and $900 cables to make it work well without noise, I have decided to stick with FW, which is used throughout professional audio in recording studios.

 

I have a Lightspeed USB sitting around here unused waiting for me to get it listed for sale. If you're a bit curious about what I'm talking about, maybe we can figure out a way for you to borrow it.

 

As far as the Jitterbug - as I understand it, it's meant to address the noise that's ultimately passed from a computer to a DAC via the USB cable. Additionally it cleans the power sent to the DAC. I would think that FW would have just as much noise to pass along and would have just as much to gain from such a device, were one available for FW.

 

Is FW really still thriving as far as pro gear goes?

[johndoe21ro]

I think most people move on to the next component before they've heard how good the component they own really is. That was me for my first 15 or so years in this hobby.

 

But then I was introduced to the foundation theory by Roy Gregory. I gave it a shot. By addressing power, resonance control, and signal cables, my system improved dramatically. My system's musicality gained more in the first couple years that it took to establish a proper foundation than it had in the preceding 15 years.

 

Through all this I have found that a system is only as good as its weakest link. As I've addressed the cabling around the Mytek I've learned that it was the cabling that was dragging down the Mytek's performance. The Mytek is that good.

 

Like that Oyaide FW cable. I thought it was good when I first got it. At that time I wasn't really a believer in audiophile digital cables, but the Oyaide was cheap and it was a little better than stock cables. I thought I was set. But I'm so glad a friend convinced me to try something better. I would have dumped the Mytek had it not been for that. The things that were grating on me about the Mytek were actually the fault of that cable. So what sense would it have made to upgrade to a better DAC only to have its performance dragged down by equivalent cabling? The nasties would have remained.

 

A DAC upgrade is coming, as I mentioned. DACs are advancing so quickly. So instead of dumping big bucks into one I've been taking gradual steps every three years. I've spent about the same each time and got a nice bump in improvement every time.

 

And Stillpoints are a must - I have then under all components and my speakers. Once you hear what these do you will know what I mean.

 

This upgrade path must sound strange to you as you don't consider these tweaks to be real technology. It wasn't that long ago that I felt the same way.

 

If you are interested in learning more about the foundation approach, these are good:

 

The Audio Beat's System Setup and Optimization Seminar - The Audio Beat - www.TheAudioBeat.com

 

The Audio Beat's System Setup and Optimization Seminar: What We Did, What It Did, and Why It Worked - The Audio Beat - www.TheAudioBeat.com

 

 

Very true! Only hi-end cables can unleash the full potential of your electronics! You don't know what you got till you solve the problem with your weakest link. For the average audiophile it's usually the cables. Too bad some audiophiles try to help the others cross the street only to be mocked!

[STC]

Are you really interested in an answer?

 

Please humor me.

 

 

 

Ah that explains using a $4 USB cable in a system that supposedly has $14k speakers.

 

If you are so confident that your approach is the correct one, why not list your system in your profile?

 

Why picking on my system? How about real people who spent 50 years of their life perfecting concert hall sound reproduction in room? A physicist, a man made enough contribution to science to have an island named after him? If you can't prove it under double blind test than it doesn't matter.

 

Anyway, I am not against your cable's choice but the USB cable transmitting data did not make any diff in my setup. Speakers cables too did not really make a difference unless those fancy ones with magic box but speaker cables did make a difference with my ESL speakers. Measurements proved that the inductance did make a slight difference.

 

My system used to be.

1) theta transport and Dac connected to classe pre and power. Speakers. Various. Cables Audioquest, xlo reference, kimber, Belden and many others but usually on trial basis.

 

Later,

2) marantz SACD , Supratek Chardonnay preamp, classe amp, harbeth shl5.

 

Now, Mytek, classe amp and SoundLab speakers. I guess it doesn't qualify to be in your approved list.

[firedog]

 

I am sure Mytek didn't rip us by offering the cheap generic cable before. Looks like the new DACs are coming with $150 cables. Perhaps, they are wiser now.

 

I'm guessing it means the cable costs Mytek a small fraction of the $150 to produce, and they assume it will be a "value" marketing advantage for the DAC, which is in a much tougher competitive environment than it was even just a year or two ago.

[STC]

I'm guessing it means the cable costs Mytek a small fraction of the $150 to produce, and they assume it will be a "value" marketing advantage for the DAC, which is in a much tougher competitive environment than it was even just a year or two ago.

 

Honestly, the generic cable failed after a year and I suspect my new 5 meter cable too not fitting properly or there could be a loose pin.

 

 

Mytek is just giving what the audiophile consumers want. That's business and nothing wrong with it. As an example, Alan Shaw, the designer of Harbeth, openly admits the bi-wiring for the Super 5 did nothing to the sound except to satisfy customers demand. Mytek DAC is good DAC and making a few extra buck from those who can afford is not wrong. I wouldn't mind paying a little more for a more reliable cable.

[57gold]

STMytek - On the computer cable front, running 5 meters of USB may cause real sonic issues...I moved my gear around using a long (3+ meter) USB cable and immediately heard a significant negative impact on all aspects of music versus the 1 meter I had been using. The long cable worked, but the details, cymbals, percussion all got messed up. Found the same with very long FW, even though FW is supposed to spec out better for longer runs.

 

Thinking that if you tried a shorter USB, you WOULD hear a pretty decent improvement.

 

Kennyb123, not sure about FW given that even Mac has stopped using it and replaced it with Thunderbolt, but it doesn't have the Regen/Jitterbug noise of USB. Found a pro audio equipment site that compared FW to USB a couple of years ago:

 

Pros of FW:

 

>In general, FireWire devices support a higher bandwidth than USB 2.0, and therefore can send more data faster. This results in the ability to utilize more inputs and outputs, as well as increased performance and stability. This practically would apply only to interfaces with large numbers of inputs and outputs; the difference in performance between a single or dual-channel USB or FireWire interface should be negligible.

 

>FireWire streams data rather than packets data. This results in more stable synchronization and performance. A FireWire device can stream data in both directions at the same time, while USB requires the sent packets of data to finish transmission before the device can receive more data. While seemingly a minor technical detail, this can impact performance and stability to some degree.

 

>FireWire is typically dedicated for audio/video purposes, and wouldn't be in use by other services on your computer. Your system will most likely have a single controller for FireWire that shouldn't receive interference from other services or hardware on your system in a normal situation. Conversely, USB is used by a wide variety of hardware peripherals, resulting in an increase in the chance that a conflict could occur.

 

>FireWire devices have the ability to cascade or daisy-chain. This means multiple FireWire devices of the same family can be connected together for additional inputs and outputs. For instance, you can connect two PreSonus FireStudio Projects together for a total of 20 inputs and 20 outputs. USB devices cannot be connected together in this fashion.

 

[STC]

57Gold, my internal sound card is disabled. Maybe, that's why I am not hearing any difference. Is there anyway you could record the output signals to compare the percussion and cymbal sound difference?

 

A little story.....

 

Few months ago, the annual local International AV show gave away their test CD with a complete guide of what to listen for. Similar to Chesky and Shefield demo CDs. While listening to the CD I heard a faint bird whistle which I thought was strange given the CD was produced by reputed audiophile label company. Moreover, there wasn't any mention about the bird in the " what to listen for guide" written by local experts.

 

I got curious about this bird's whistle because it was too faint to be intended effect in the recording. I posted to our local forum and asked more details about the recording.

 

I received two responses. Cautioning me that it was the month of ghost festivals, and I am hearing things. I then used audacity and extracted the portion and amplified by about 38dB and posted again in the forum.

 

Later, I received the confirmation of the whistle in the recording.

 

I heard this with the same 5 meter cable in a very quiet room. And therore, I am skeptical that a mere 2 meter increase could cause so much difference unless the cable was introducing too much noise into the DAC. Here the problem could be too much electrical interference in your room. Perhaps, a better shielded cable for you.

[57gold]

Have no recording equipment. Was not a subtle difference between 1 meter and 5 to my ears, used a 1/2 meter, when I used USB for the Wavelength USB converter to the Wadia, pre Mytek.

 

From Ayre, one of the early kings of CA and USB DACs:

 

Perhaps the one weakness of USB is that the maximum cable length is somewhat limited, typically 3 meters (~10') to 5 meters (~16'). We have found that one of the most common problems encountered when setting up a USB-based music system is the cable itself. Regardless of any claims from the cable manufacturer, we have found that performance can degrade when exceeding 3 meters. Ayre cannot guarantee the operation or performance of any system utilizing a USB cable longer than 3 meters.

 

USB is a messed up interface...its ubiquitous, cheap, made for mouses, keyboards and other peripherals. Audio adopted it, with all its warts, without even understanding it...that's why it requires all kinds of boxes, gizmos, software fixes...Gordon Rankin, the early guru knew that there were issues, but couldn't describe them all...

 

Glad you can hear whistles with your long USB.

 

I play with several bands, play guitar and own a collection of @30 vintage and handmade acoustics & electrics. Have played in jazz, blues, rock and folk groups for 40 years and been surrounded by the real thing; horns, percussion, acoustic and electric instruments...so when a cymbal sound foobar, I hear it. When the sax's overtones are messed with, the same. FW is speced by audio pros at like 5 meters, tried one of those from Granite Audio (recommended by Ted B), it messed with audio quality, 1 meter much better.

[STC]

Will do some serious testing this weekend with 1 and 5 meter USB. I do admit that on some occasions I do hear dropped sound. Rarely, but that also can happen in live performance.

 

Maybe, I should say I am glad that I don't hear the difference.

[kennyb123]

Please humor me.

 

It's an analog signal that passes through a USB cable. Additionally the USB cable provides a path though which noise can travel from the computer to the DAC. So it's more than just a problem of "sending data" as you suggest.

 

Light reading for you:

 

Q&A with John Swenson. Part 1: What is Digital? | AudioStream

Q&A with John Swenson. Part 2: Are Bits Just Bits? | AudioStream

 

 

Why picking on my system? How about real people who spent 50 years of their life perfecting concert hall sound reproduction in room? A physicist, a man made enough contribution to science to have an island named after him?

 

This sounds like a logical fallacy (argument from authority) as these say nothing about their skills at assembling a high end audio system. That's why I asked about your system. It helps me to understand YOUR skill at assembling a system.

 

If you can't prove it under double blind test than it doesn't matter.

 

If you believe that then I know for a fact that I can't change your mind. We can just agree to disagree.

 

I use the same approach to select audio gear that I do when picking my favorite coffee, or beer, or chocolate, or whatever.

 

My system used to be.

1) theta transport and Dac connected to classe pre and power. Speakers. Various. Cables Audioquest, xlo reference, kimber, Belden and many others but usually on trial basis.

 

I used to have a Theta transport and DAC connected to an ARC preamp and Classe power amp. So maybe we aren't that far apart in our tastes.

 

Now, Mytek, classe amp and SoundLab speakers. I guess it doesn't qualify to be in your approved list.

 

Not about approval, but about context and frame of reference. You've made wise choices in gear, so you should be able to hear differences in USB cables as long as your signal cabling isn't getting in the way.

 

Too many folks who claim they don't hear difference in cables don't list their systems. So it's impossible to know if they don't hear the difference simply because their system isn't sufficiently resolving. Methinks that's exactly why they don't list their systems.

[kennyb123]

Kennyb123, not sure about FW given that even Mac has stopped using it and replaced it with Thunderbolt, but it doesn't have the Regen/Jitterbug noise of USB.

 

From AudioQuest's website:

 

All computing devices—laptops, smartphones, Network Attached Storage devices (NAS drives), media servers, etc.—inherently generate a significant amount of noise and parasitic resonances. Additionally, computers contribute a considerable amount of RFI and EMI pollution onto the signal paths—all of which can easily find its way onto your USB cables and into your audio system.

 

I would think that noise could just as easily find its way onto a FW cable and then into an audio system.

 

And like USB, FW sends power down two conductors in a FW cable. Another way for noise to enter an audio system.

 

Just saying...