Mytek Stereo 192

[Miska]

So far I only used Firewire because it seems to be the superior solution in comparision to USB.

Sorry for not including that info in my original post.

 

Is it really superior if you get dropouts?

 

I don't get any sonic difference between the two with DSD, other than the much better sound of DSD128 with the USB...

(DSD64 over AES also sounds as good as with other interfaces)

 

But maybe I'm just deaf, or then it's related to Mac OS X (since the interfaces sound the same to me on Mac Mini running Win7). I have FW800 external HDD for music, that's why audio things are connected to USB. (Mytek & hiFace)

[mikel]

I will do a comparision USB/FW today or tomorrow.

I will also try different FW drivers just to be sure.

 

Will let you know about the results....

[dmccombs]

Mikel and Others,

 

I will be curious to hear about your FW - USB test results. I have a high end USB cable, and a very good Firewire cable that has the power lead cut. In my tests, running the Mytek with the USB sounded better. I had a few friends over and everyone agreed. I wonder if the results vary depending on how good your USB and Firewire cable are.

[matthias]

dmccombs,

 

please clarify your configuration:

 

FW cable?

USB cable?

OSX or Win?

Media Player?

Internal or external USB?

 

Thx.

 

matthias

[dmccombs]

Mathias,

 

I use the following:

OSX - Snow Leopard and Mountain Lion (with optimized OS)

Players - Amarra for PCM, Pure Music and Audirvana for DSD (generally).

USB Cable and Firewire Cables are made by a small company named Chronos Labs

[mikel]

Quick update:

Same dropout problems with USB, Iso files if they include multichannel cannot be played withouth heavy dropouts.

I have to extract the stereo portion of the Iso files in order to get stable playback.

Now I wonder if it might be releated to my Mac. I will try another Mac on the weekend.

Cheers, Mikel

[lau2001hk]

Your mac cpu ram ?

As you know , dsd file size is very bigger , did you set to more ram to play a sound, Audirvana Plus will put the dsd, wave to ram first , then play dsd and wave file .

So your mac must have enough ram .

[mikel]

Your mac cpu ram ?

As you know , dsd file size is very bigger , did you set to more ram to play a sound, Audirvana Plus will put the dsd, wave to ram first , then play dsd and wave file .

So your mac must have enough ram .

 

I do not think RAM is an issue, I have 12 Gigs of RAM.

 

I would like to try another software, I guess only Pure Music also supports native DSD playback, right?

[dubbio]

Mikel and Others,

 

I will be curious to hear about your FW - USB test results. I have a high end USB cable, and a very good Firewire cable that has the power lead cut. In my tests, running the Mytek with the USB sounded better. I had a few friends over and everyone agreed. I wonder if the results vary depending on how good your USB and Firewire cable are.

 

dmccombs,

may be it's a matter of taste which interface sounds better. For me it is FW (more emphasis in low end only) but I have used 50 cent cable in both cases (because I don't believe in cable influence - at least not in the digital domain).

I find it interesting that there is a difference at all, as you have committed above. Have discussed this with a dealer of high end gear and he's 100% sure (theoretically) there cannot be a difference in sound, as the data stream should be exactly the same in either case.

how did you do the comparison ?

I have used two notebooks at the same time, one connected via usb and one via fw. same os and player (win xp, foobar asio out). then switched between both inputs playing the same song started at the same time.

[tailspn]

Interesting positive mini review at What's Best Forum from Bruce Brown, owner of Puget Sounds Mastering. Bruce does most of the conversions for HDTracks, and has a great reputation.

 

Mytek Stereo192-DSD DAC

[dubbio]

Bruce Brown: 'This thing really shines in the bass department. The leading transients on plucked bass are sharp and authoritative. There is no grain or smearing in the high end. I can play the same DSD file from the Sonoma going through the PD MPS-5 and then from HQPlayer going into the Mytek and I prefer the bass from the Mytek!'

That's interesting because of a similar experience I made when playing vinyl through the same phonostage directly vs. AD'd through a Lake People ADC440 via Mytek AES input using same pre-amp.

it's like a model railway compared to a real railway. - The model railway (Mytek) does schmooze the eye more than the real thing...

[lau2001hk]

I have a question. I use usb 2.0 in mytek 192 dsd dac ,

I use Audirvana Plus to play dsd , but it only have dsd64 , dsd128 is dim,

what can I do ?

Thank you very much !

[ctle]

I use Audirvana Plus to play dsd , but it only have dsd64 , dsd128 is dim

 

Audirvana Plus doesn't support DSD128 yet.

[smazur]

Audirvana Plus doesn't support DSD128 yet.

 

This is incorrect, A+ currently supports DSD128 with the Sonore/exD DSD DAC (maybe others as well). The Mytek currently only does DSD128 via ASIO over USB (or via SDIF), which means only on a Windows machine because there is no ASIO for Mac. Michal summed it up in a post from early June:

 

During manufacturer discussions on DOP standard, which were initiated by Andy McHarg of DCS and continued to be managed by Andreas Koch of Playback Designs, the DOP standard for 128xDSD was initially proposed to stay the same as for 64xDSD with exception of FS of stereo PCM carrier which was extended to 352.8k (from 176.4k). This works for some hardware where USB is capable of 352.8k FS.

 

I have proposed a second option- a 4 channel transmission where 128xDSD is carried over 4 channels of 176.4k using a different marker to distinguish it from the 64xDSD. This method was added to DOP standard as the second option. My main reasoning was the viability of 128xDSD transmission over standard professional audio interfaces (AES EBU, SPDIF, MADI , AVB and so on). All these interfaces transmit only up to 192k and would not work with the first 352.8k method. Including these provides many more implementation opportunities, long cables etc. In addition many chips such as FW DICE II used in our converter do not go beyond 192k either. In Mytek DAC USB can do 352.8k, but FW cannot. We will probably implement both methods to give users a choice, starting with 352.8k as this already works with Pure Music and other software- pls stay tuned, but it will take a while. If you need 128xDSD today there is ASIO and Foobar.

 

Hope this helps. Best Regards, Michal at Mytek

[smazur]

I would highly recommend anyone with the Mytek use it by balanced connections if at all possible. The ESS DAC chip used in the Mytek has a balanced output, and the the Mytek's following analog stage appears to be balanced as well. That the single ended output is 6 dB lower in level than the balanced indicates that the single ended output is created by just tapping the top half of the balanced signal from the DAC (I do not know for sure that this is the case, but it is highly likely). Because the single ended stage uses only half of the DAC chip's balanced output, one will not get the advantage of having a balanced DAC at all from the single ended outputs: the balanced outputs will be lower in distortion and noise because of common mode rejection. One is really only getting "half" of the potential perfromance of the ESS DAC by using the Mytek single ended.

 

I don't know, you might have a point in a scenario where all other variables remain the same, i.e. if you have a preamp and power amp both designed to accommodate +4dBm balanced (pro) and -10dBV unbalanced (consumer) inputs. But for people that have an existing hifi system that they're happy with (which are usually consumer level), I say don't be afraid of the RCA jacks. One of my power amps (ADA PF-4000 Renegade) has both balanced and unbalanced inputs and I've connected the Mytek to it in a bunch of ways: to the unbalanced inputs with my modified Dynaco PAS-4 tube preamp (via the Mytek RCA outputs and with XLR-RCA cables) and to the balanced inputs with a few different preamps/monitor controllers (Goldpoint SA1X and SM Audio M-Patch 2 passive preamps, Shadow Hills Equinox) as well as direct to power amp using the Mytek volume control. My favorite sound is achieved with the Mytek connected to the Dynaco tube preamp using the unbalanced RCA jacks (not XLR-RCA) and the Mytek volume control bypassed. YMMV.

 

FWIW, I also use the USB inputs (both of them) at least as much as the firewire input, but that has more to do with the software I happen to be using at the time and the type of files I happen to be playing, e.g. USB 1.0 when I'm on a Mac and playing Redbook material (A+ in Direct and Integer Modes), USB 2.0 if I'm on a PC (for DSD128 material or PCM with JPlay in Extream Mode/Directlink) and firewire the rest of the time. So I would advise not to take somebody else's word that firewire is always better or a balanced connection is always better; experiment with your own setup and see what works best for you.

[ctle]

This is incorrect, A+ currently supports DSD128 with the Sonore/exD DSD DAC (maybe others as well). The Mytek currently only does DSD128 via ASIO over USB (or via SDIF), which means only on a Windows machine because there is no ASIO for Mac. Michal summed it up in a post from early June:

 

What about your request for DSD128 support (post#37) in the thread Audirvana Plus: Direct Mode?

Has it been answered by Damien?

[ctle]

You're correct! Damien just confirmed it.

[Julf]

So I would advise not to take somebody else's word that firewire is always better or a balanced connection is always better; experiment with your own setup and see what works best for you.

 

Absolutely - but as a general rule, balanced, properly differential connections are much better at dealing with noise and ground loops - that's why it is the connection of choice in pro systems. With short connections in home systems, it probably doesn't matter that much.

[barrows]

I don't know, you might have a point in a scenario where all other variables remain the same, i.e. if you have a preamp and power amp both designed to accommodate +4dBm balanced (pro) and -10dBV unbalanced (consumer) inputs. But for people that have an existing hifi system that they're happy with (which are usually consumer level), I say don't be afraid of the RCA jacks. One of my power amps (ADA PF-4000 Renegade) has both balanced and unbalanced inputs and I've connected the Mytek to it in a bunch of ways: to the unbalanced inputs with my modified Dynaco PAS-4 tube preamp (via the Mytek RCA outputs and with XLR-RCA cables) and to the balanced inputs with a few different preamps/monitor controllers (Goldpoint SA1X and SM Audio M-Patch 2 passive preamps, Shadow Hills Equinox) as well as direct to power amp using the Mytek volume control. My favorite sound is achieved with the Mytek connected to the Dynaco tube preamp using the unbalanced RCA jacks (not XLR-RCA) and the Mytek volume control bypassed. YMMV.

 

FWIW, I also use the USB inputs (both of them) at least as much as the firewire input, but that has more to do with the software I happen to be using at the time and the type of files I happen to be playing, e.g. USB 1.0 when I'm on a Mac and playing Redbook material (A+ in Direct and Integer Modes), USB 2.0 if I'm on a PC (for DSD128 material or PCM with JPlay in Extream Mode/Directlink) and firewire the rest of the time. So I would advise not to take somebody else's word that firewire is always better or a balanced connection is always better; experiment with your own setup and see what works best for you.

 

To be perfectly clear: If the single ended signal is created by just taking half of the (balanced) output of the DAC chip (as it appears to be with the Mytek), the single ended output will have more distortion than the balanced output. This is just a technical fact, and is not subjective in any way. Now, one may prefer the sound of more distortion…

A more sophisticated way to create a single ended signal is to use a balanced to single ended converter, which takes both halves of the balanced output of the DAC and combines them into a single ended signal, if this method is used then the single ended output will have virtually identical performance to the balanced at the output of the DAC (balanced connections though will still have some advantage at the input of the amp or preamp).

[ted_b]

Hey, Mytek owners and foobar users. I'm trying to help a fellow Mytek owner over on Whats Best forum, but I'm not a foobar user.. He just got his new Mytek and loves it so far, but is getting weird reponses from his foobar setup. He is USB ASIO (Windows of course) and yet his foobar (with supposedly correct SACD plug in) is showing 88k. Here's his comment:

 

I think the problem is with how Foobar is setup. The Mytek is simply playing back what it is fed via Foobar. When playing back a DSD file, the toolbar at the bottom of Foobar says:

 

DSD|?kbps|88.200Hz|stereo

 

And I think that is the problem. The Mytek also shows 88.2 on the display because that is the signal it is getting fed. The DSD plug in on the Foobar tools menu shows DSDIFF Decoder ver 1.4. The output menu on Foobar shows: Mytek Stereo 192 DSD DAC ASIO

 

I'm pretty sure that Foobar should be displaying something besides 88.200Hz when playing back DSD files.

 

Any ideas? Thx

[smazur]

Ted, he's using the wrong Foobar plugin. He needs the "foo_input_sacd" plug, not DSDIFF Decoder. Here's the link:

 

Super Audio CD Decoder | Free Audio & Video software downloads at SourceForge.net

[ted_b]

Ted, he's using the wrong Foobar plugin. He needs the "foo_input_sacd" plug, not DSDIFF Decoder. Here's the link:

 

Super Audio CD Decoder | Free Audio & Video software downloads at SourceForge.net

 

Thanks. Sorry, It's tough to keep these issues in synch in two different forum threads. He had already, later, claimed he downloaded the "SACD tools plugin"; Tom (tailspn) asked if it was foo_input_sacd v .0.60 (same as your link) so we're waiting...but thanks regardless.

[ted_b]

Furthermore I told him to uninstall/remove the DSDIFF decoder, as it may be the gremlin that is still intercepting his DIFF signal path and converting to 88k PCM.

[dmccombs]

dmccombs,

may be it's a matter of taste which interface sounds better. For me it is FW (more emphasis in low end only) but I have used 50 cent cable in both cases (because I don't believe in cable influence - at least not in the digital domain).

I find it interesting that there is a difference at all, as you have committed above. Have discussed this with a dealer of high end gear and he's 100% sure (theoretically) there cannot be a difference in sound, as the data stream should be exactly the same in either case.

how did you do the comparison ?

I have used two notebooks at the same time, one connected via usb and one via fw. same os and player (win xp, foobar asio out). then switched between both inputs playing the same song started at the same time.

 

Why trust a guy you hardly know over your own ears, and "theoretically" implies the dealer thought this out instead of doing listening tests.

 

I have done tests between various USB cables and Firewire cables, using the same Macs and Dacs. I have heard a difference. If you or your dealer don't hear a difference, that's fine, but many people have heard differences.

 

Its not worth debating. Some people hear and believe in cable differences and some people don't.

[57gold]

Agree, not worth another debate.

 

Guys who hear the differences have their hearing; guys who don't have lo fi systems or are partially deaf or both.