Help CA Find New Speakers

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On 8/7/2018 at 11:20 AM, The Computer Audiophile said:

I'm so tempted by Sound Lab but I just don't think I can make them work. Same with the new Maggie 30.7.

They do like room, and I love my A3s. FWIW, there is sufficient tech to make servo controlled sub woofers that will integrate with them.

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On 8/21/2018 at 11:10 PM, The Computer Audiophile said:

 

 

P.S. I’m moving my listening room to another part of the house as well. Much to discuss very soon. 

 

 

Good call Chris, your room seemed nearly hopeless in the long term. Basements being concrete tubs always seem to have issues unless they are quite large. I haven't a clue about the rest of your home, but I suggest a bespoke addition if you can swing it. There are construction techniques that can really help.

 

Yeah, I know, but a man has to dream too...

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13 hours ago, Jud said:

 

I always wonder with the electrostats that use dynamic drivers on the low end how good the integration might be.

 

And with full range electrostats, I wonder about the volume capability.

 

@esldude has SoundLabs (or at least had them last I inquired), so he may be a source of information.

You are likely thinking of the original Quad 57s or the 63s, but even a 63 can play incredibly loud if you remove the low bass and use a sub ala Gradient. When over driven the upper bass panels have a bad habit of arcing. My Sound Lab A3s will play as loud as I can handle with my Parasound JC1s. The only real issue with them is the flabby "dipole" bass. Some like it, some it leaves them with blue nads wanting more. I'm actually in the latter category, but refuse to give up the extreme detail and life size presentation. I have debated on Duke Lejeune's "Swarm", but think that a properly done dipole servo sub may be just the ticket if I get the chance to build one. There are some sweet drivers available these days. OK, yeah, call me an ESL fanboi.

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9 hours ago, Paul R said:

I would point out you are in Minnesota. If you have not already done so, you should go listen to a set of Magnepan 30.7s.  

 

I am sorry to say that Magnepans will never compete with Sound Labs for detail, or possibly even dynamics IMHO. They just aren't there. The wires and glue on the diaphragm simply make it too heavy for the weak magnetic coupling they have. I seriously wish this were not the case or I'd own them.

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13 hours ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

Those are the two things going through my mind as well. 

Talk to Duke Lejeune of Audio Kinesis...

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8 hours ago, audiobomber said:

Bah! According to Seas, the Excel magnesium cones in my speakers are lighter than an ESL panel.

I do not see how this could be true. Have you ever touched or seen the film used in ESLs. That stuff nearly floats! There is a reason why many people compare to ESL speakers, they have some weaknesses, but at one time they had the measurably lowest distortion in the 100-10kHz range IIRC. Regardless, people compare to ESLs because in many facets, they are the ones to beat.

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30 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

What subs are people pairing with two channel electrostat systems?

 

rel? JL?

Open baffle servo controlled- a stacked pair of kit 5 per channel.

 

http://www.rythmikaudio.com/products.html

http://gr-research.com/diysubwooferkits.aspx

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28 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

Thanks a ton Dennis. 

 

I just got off the phone with someone who has experience with Sound Labs going back to the early 80s through today. He urged me to look elsewhere because of too many bad experiences for him and people he knows. All had similar issues with the products / company. 

 

Does anyone else have good or bad experience with Sound Labs?

I've heard they had a bad run, but that they are strong now. I do not know the details, but Duke@ Audio Kinesis was a dealer.

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1 minute ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

I noticed the word "WAS" a dealer :~)

Sigh... He may very well still be. He has his own line now. I haven't spoken to him in years, and I know he moved out of the Chicago area.

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3 hours ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

Ah thanks. I couldn't read your mind.

Even as a former dealer, he likely knows...

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20 hours ago, ShawnC said:

You could have just drove to Magnepan and handed them that check 😀

But then he'd be stuck with Magnepans! 😉

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On 6/17/2019 at 11:13 PM, The Computer Audiophile said:

More to come...

Tease!  😉

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5 hours ago, Jud said:

 

I understand what you've been saying better now. I haven't seen horns dissed in general, but yes, I've seen the specific attitude that Klipsch is somehow out of date and no longer "audiophile" from some folks.  Don't particularly understand that sort of thinking myself. I think they sound fine, and my own preference is for a non-traditional type of speaker.

Oh, I get it now too that you have connected the dots for me.  TBH, I don't recall Klipsch ever really being considered "audiophile". People griping about Klipsch aren't necessarily doing so about horns in general. They are not typical examples of horn speakers as the horns themselves are too small to load well at their respective frequencies. It's been decades since I have heard them, though they might be very attractive to some as compared to modern speakers.

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16 hours ago, Paul R said:

 

To be fair, Klipschorns were THE lust after speakers back in the late 70’s.  

 

I was really the outlier, because I thought my Advents were hands down better. 

 

 

Perhaps that is a location thing. I was in HS then and spent all of my money on Magnepan MG 1, but lusted after Quads. The horn guys wanted Altec and JBL. Klipsch were never taken seriously and likened to upscale Cerwin Vega. I'll stop there lest I upset Sal's notably fragile ego further. Please note that I was pretty heavy into audio even then, and was running tube gear with separated regulated power supplies and such. It was all a bit over the top tbh, but if you think tube gear is always polite, soft or mushy, think again.

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1 minute ago, Norton said:

Count me in - Cornwall IIIs  have been my only speakers for last 4 years, replacing B&W Nautilus 805 signatures.  Whether or not they are considered “audiophile”, to my ears they convey  a sense of listening to live music  performance that I’ve just not heard even with much more expensive mainstream “hifi” speakers.  

Oh, I can see how. It would seem that many of today's speakers lack the oomph that they have. The notion that you can DSP to make a plastic 8" sound like a nice paper 15" is ludicrous IMO. Klipsch are very engaging.

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12 minutes ago, firedog said:

You are correct.
But DSP can do some amazing stuff. Look at the Devialet site where they show how their SAM mapping of speakers changes the output: Speakers gain from 3 to even 20hz of extra low end extension, and distortion is reduced. That's all from digital crossovers with the ability to push the drivers exactly to their maximum point before they  begin to distort, and not further. Can't do that with a conventional amp speaker setup.
So  you can't make an 8" sound like a 15", but you can definitely get it closer.

As for Klipsch spearkers, I think a lot of that live sound is also due to the characteristics of the horns.

I didn't intend that to disparage DSP, I know you are a fan. What I meant was that even with DSP,  many of today's speakers leave me flat. Klipsch are lively for sure, and Zu comes to mind as another along with Tannoy. None of those could make me happy long term. The lack of top to bottom coherence is too big of a hit for the dynamics IMO. FWIW, I am no stranger to horns. I've run Altecs in my shop for decades.

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15 minutes ago, Paul R said:

 

Those were the days of “Do I buy a loaf of bread and jar of peanut butter and walk to class and work - or - put gas in the car?” for me.

LOL- I rode a bike or walked everywhere and didn't even own a car. I spent all of my money on audio and girls!

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On 6/23/2019 at 12:42 PM, Sal1950 said:

Sounds like your believing scandalous rumors on both counts.  Another subjectivist failing   ROTFL

 

Girls gonna cost you a lot of money without a car.  They don't want to be seen on the back of your bike unless they're 10yo. 

 

Have you heard the new L100's?  Pretty impressive for a big monkey coffin.

I'm repeating myself I think, but then I'm old and can be excused.  LOL

Gas, cash, or a-s, no one rides for free was my motto. 

Or a bit of Grass on occasion.

Why am I not surprised you are impressed by L100s? The originals sounded like crap. I gave a pair away that I picked up cheap at a garage sale.