EtherREGEN: The long development thread. [Some Gen2 dev. pics and update starting on page 92.]

[octaviars]

@warpeon I dont think you will get much answers right now from @Superdad as the product is still in development. 

 

As the clean port is supposed to feed the streamer it should be placed right before it. In my system I would go from router to etherregen and connect my NUC with Roon ROCK on the dirty side of the etherregen and my SOtM sMS-200ultra on the clean streamer port.

 

I think it is easier to get a PHY chip with 10/100 cleaner than a 100/1000 but that part will perhaps be explained when more information is coming out.

 

I suppose the SFP is for them that wants to get totall galvanic isolation between two networks.

 

I think that Alex wrote the LPS-1 will power it.

[octaviars]

49 minutes ago, JohnSwenson said:

BUT the upstream cables still have leakage current running through them. Because of this it is a BAD idea to place the switch right in with your audio equipment. You want to keep it somewhat away from the audio system so noise from the upstream cable doesn't get picked up.

 

If the upstream cables uses your ground solution (JSSG) will the radiated noise still be a problem to consider in a system?  

[octaviars]

3 minutes ago, wwc said:

As the Nucleus+ is a combined server/streamer, I think it's a comparable price to a NUC server/SOtM streamer combo.

 

A Nucleus is no more server/streamer than a regular NUC. There is nothing special going on with the USB output on a Nucleus that is USB straight out from the NUC board. Before I bought a SOtM sMS-200ultra I run my NUC as server/streamer to my DAC.

 

 

Roon built and sells the Nucleus for those who do not wish to build a NUC with ROCK them self and it is mounted in a passive chassi no more no less.

 

This got OT.

 

The thing with a etherREGEN is to isolate the endpoint/DAC from all the stuff going on in the network with servers, NAS, routers and so on. I think many will find all sorts of connections sounding best. Ethernet gizmos cleaning up things is the new thing, just look at all the stuff selling to clean up USB

[octaviars]

@Superdad will the case be the same dimension as the ultraRendu? Have you decided how the connections will be placed on it?

[octaviars]

24 minutes ago, tboooe said:

Any suggestions???

 

I will use Ubiquiti SFP module UF-MM-1G (Ubiquiti router feeding fiber to the new etherREGEN) and Ubiquiti LC-LC multimode fibercable.

 

 

 

 

[octaviars]

@Superdad will it be possible to wallmount the switch? 

[octaviars]

6 minutes ago, Superdad said:

EtherREGEN does focus on all those things, plus offers one fiber media port and 4 Gigabit copper ports—in addition to our super-optimized 10/100 “output” port.

 

So we will look forward to reports comparing our switch to FMCs.  We honestly do not know how significant the difference will be for how many of you. But my personal experience with FMCs versus even the special Cisco Catalyst (that @lmitche turned me on to) suggests many folks are in for a treat.

 

I have a Ubiquity router with SFP port that I plan to feed a etherREGEN with, got two 1310nm SFP and Corning Clearcurve single mode fiber waiting for the switch. Connect my NUC with ROCK to one of the gigabit ports and use the clean one to feed my SOtM sMS-200ultra Neo, I hope that this will be a good solution with galvanic isolation from the rest of my network in my house and all of the equipment in my stereo only connected to one power circuit.

[octaviars]

57 minutes ago, Foggie said:

Can you expound a bit on the cable length, as far as fiber is concerned (if it’s any issue)?  

 

 

The external clock dont have anything to do with cable length of a fiber run they can be many miles long without any problem.

 

The clock signal from a master clock that often is a hi frequenzy signal in most audio cases a 10MHz signal that has to pass through lots of connectors and cables will fast be degraded and not so exact as it has to be. Some DAC manufacturers would never consider building something with a external clock for example MSB Tech or EMM Labs and many more (my own TAD D1000 mk2 DAC has a very precise clock mounted directly besides the DAC chip).

 

This is Ed Meitner from EMM Labs thoughts about external clocks (article in Stereophile magazine).

 

JVS: You don't believe in using an external word clock. Why?

EM: Because I think this is the most stupid thing I've ever heard in the audio business. That means you have a precision clock that you have to connect to a wire to connect to a DAC, when the clock should be straight away where it belongs, inside the DAC, beside the DAC chip, if there is such a thing—not through a cable in a different box. This is so idiotic, it's not even funny. It's a money grab.

JVS: I believe one of the arguments for an external clock is that it offers better shielding from power supplies, and will thus operate better.

EM: Yeah, especially with units [that] have a separate power supply. There's a lot of shielding there. The whole thing is funny.

MP: In our DACs, the reference clock is inside the product and an inherent part of the conversion circuitry. Anything that comes from the outside world, on whatever input we select, is buffered and reclocked, so we don't have to worry about the artifacts of an external clock. Everything is reclocked to our internal reference. That's what we mean by asynchronous clock design.

 

[octaviars]

47 minutes ago, skatbelt said:

My streamer is a dCS Network Bridge and this device can only accept RJ-45 so optical into the 'audio power domain' is not an option for me if I want to keep this domain 'as is'.

 

I have a similare setup and I will use the etherRegen in my "audio power domain" and feed it fiber optic LAN from my Ubiquiti router. From one of the RJ45 LAN on the etherRegen I will connect my Roon ROCK server and the single isolated RJ45 port will go to my streamer.

 

It will look something like this when I am done, might be some changes on the PSU as that is stuff from my system I have today and that might change. The purple line shows the seperation of my power supplys as the ethernet going to my audio is over fiber.

 

 

[octaviars]

7 hours ago, skatbelt said:

Thx for your input but my goal is yo keep the EtherREGEN (or any other solution) outside the 'audio power domain'.

 

I see, that might be the wisest thing to do perhaps I should reconsider having the computer stuff on my audio supply and just let the isolated RJ45 go into my "audio domain".

Lets see what @Superdad has to say about the thing.

[octaviars]

15 minutes ago, simon_pepper said:

Of course, if you wanted to power the EtherRegen with an UltraCap LPS 1.2, but until it is confirmed as 1) supported and 2) makes a difference, why not plan to use the supplied PSU?

 

As I wrote this is a system build up i process so nothing is written in stone yet ☺️ 

I will wait and see how things evolve in the coming months.

[octaviars]

6 minutes ago, JohnSwenson said:

I hope that makes sense.

 

Thanks for that answer it really answered a lot of questions

 

So I suppose @skatbelt has the best solution to keep the EtherREGEN out of the audio domain and feed the isolated port to his streamer. 

[octaviars]

3 minutes ago, JohnSwenson said:

So if powering the EtherREGEN from an LPS-1.2 here is the table:

 

Connection                                                                             should use ground screw

 

If you use a linear PSU to supply it will it be the same result regarding recomendation of the use of grounding? 

 

My system will be SFP in from router, one rj45 on A-side to server, B-side to streamer and a linear PSU powering it (negative side not grounded by default).

[octaviars]

@JohnSwenson a question regarding the metallcase around the LAN port on the B-side how is that connected to other parts of the etherREGEN? Is there a connection to other metallcases (RJ45 A-side) and to the groundconnection or is it floating compared to them for example?

My intrest in this is rather hypothetical, if I were to use a sheilded ethernetcable (with screen connected to the plug) from the B-side to streamer would this make a connection from upstream on A-side cables to the b-side streamer cable "if" they have the screens connected in the plugs on both sides A and B on the etherREGEN?

 

[octaviars]

1 minute ago, Superdad said:

 If it was then that would defeat much of isolation which we go to so much trouble to create.

 

I assumed this but better to ask. Is the metal shroud on the ´B`-side not connected to anything? So if I were to use a screened cabel from streamer to etherREGEN with the screen connected to the plug it would just end in the metal shroud on the B-side is this correct?

[octaviars]

18 hours ago, JohnSwenson said:

The only thing a connection from the B RJ-45 shield can possibly connect to is the shell of the BNC jack for external clock.

 

 

Just a thought when looking at the picture of the PCB the RJ45 port on the "B"-side it looks to be a Pulse Electronics J0G-0003NL with integrated magnetics will it be beneficial to actually have a ground connection to the streamer (lets say it is a streamer with AC voltage input and the chassi is grounded to the AC protectiv earth) in the LAN cable going from etherRegen to streamer? Just me thinking where the magnetics shunt away any noise on the "B"-side or is this not something to bother with?

 

 

 

[octaviars]

20 minutes ago, marce said:

Myself I wouldn't connect the screen of a Ethernet cable for domestic use, the wires are not that long and you never know what the RJ45 case is connected to in other devices so you can create an unintentional ground loop....

 

I think @JohnSwenson already answered how it is in the etherREGEN

 

On 8/16/2019 at 6:57 PM, JohnSwenson said:

The only thing a connection from the B RJ-45 shield can possibly connect to is the shell of the BNC jack for external clock.

 

John S.

 

So if you dont use any external 10MHz connection as I see it wont be able to make any groundloops to other equipment if you would (by accident or intentional) use a LAN cable with the screen connected to the plug in both ends (I dont plan to do it) but I might be wrong about this, I am shure John will fill in if I got it wrong

[octaviars]

On 3/22/2018 at 6:51 PM, Superdad said:

• Case will the exact same size/style as the UltraCap units
• One end will have four Gigabit "dirty-side" RJ45 Ethernet "input" jacks
• Other end will have an SFP Fiber Ethernet cage, an LED, a DC input jack, and the one very special, clean and highly isolated Ethernet "output" jack (which is 10/1000Mb, not Gigabit)
• Every part--the magnetics, the Ethernet switch chip, the isolators, the clocking flops, the PHY for special port, the regulators, the clock synthesizer, the XO itself--are all carefully chosen to meed the ambitious goals of this design.

 

@Pinkfaunrookie in the first post there are much information, often long threads here on this forum have the first post updated with information so you dont need to look all over the place.

 

On 3/22/2018 at 6:51 PM, Superdad said:

Please don't ask about release date.  You and I want it now, but I promised John he could first continue work on some important "clock fingerprint" measurement test boards.  As usual, we would dearly love to prove the efficacy of the REGENs (both USB and Ethernet), and if he is successful, the new measurement jig (involving special high-speed ADCs, a processor board, and a bunch of other boards) could provide proof for a range of upstream variables that we all hear, especially with regards to data clocking for which nobody understands why it makes a difference.  Could blow things wide open.  Or it could be a bust.  That's what research and test is all about.

Of course if the preproduction prototypes of the EtherREGEN test well on the bench--even if John's clock-marker tests don't get done in time or don't pan out--and if the unit is sonically effective in an audio system, then we are going to put it into production as soon as possible.

 

 

@brad225 no preorder yet and I think the price target is $625

 

29 minutes ago, Puma Cat said:

I  may have missed it in the posts above, but is there a voltage spec for powering the EtherREGEN yet? 

 

I'm hoping my LPS-1 will power it,  but my guess is it will require about 9V. 

 

7-12V and I think time will tell if a LPS-1 will power it, depends on how many LAN ports/SFP you use as that affects the current draw.

 

 

[octaviars]

On 8/21/2019 at 4:45 AM, Superdad said:

Not sure how you came up with November as the “earliest possible shipping.”  We are still crossing our fingers for October. The cases for EtherREGEN arrive October 2nd.  Of course everything depends on how functional the new (final?) round of pre-production/beta-test boards are.  Those should arrive at John’s lab this coming Monday and he will get started with them right away.  I have a good feeling about these...

 

 

Any news about the pre-production/beta-test boards?

[octaviars]

16 hours ago, Superdad said:

Yes, the new pre-production/beta boards were delivered to John's place by FedEx less than one hour ago.  Not sure why, but they were about 1 week later than we expected

 

Are you still having October as the month to start shipping even after this delay?

[octaviars]

On 9/7/2019 at 3:47 AM, Superdad said:

I can't wait to put EtherREGEN in my system! 

 

 

I think we are many here that can't wait to put the etherREGEN in their systems 😉 

I'm  looking forward to feeding my dCS Network bridge with the "b-side" port ☺️

[octaviars]

28 minutes ago, Superdad said:

The newer UltraCap LPS-1.2 can power EtherREGEN from its 9V or 12V settings as our switch draws about 0.92A at 9V and 0.72A at 12V.

 

Will the amps at 12V change much regarding how many ports you use or will it be around 0.7A regardless of ports used? 

[octaviars]

27 minutes ago, Pinkfaunrookie said:

And no 30% extra taxes/ costs on top of the product's price.

 

I really dont see that you can get away without extra costs buying from a company within the EU they need to pay TAX and import on the goods from the US.

 

For example with the Uptone LPS-1.2 shipped to Sweden.

 

Direkt from Uptone it is $435 and that is around 4250SEK and if it ends up in customs they add 25% TAX so that is 5300SEK (I dont know what the customs fee is so that will add more to the cost).

 

Bought from Audiostore in England it is £435  and that is around 5200SEK so not much diffrences in the price for me where I buy it.

 

Only way to get it for less money is if the package is marked with a lower value from the US so the TAX and fee is lower but not all companys want to do that when the ship it.

[octaviars]

59 minutes ago, _JL_ said:

I'll have to solder the connector to connect to the EtherRegen so would like to gather parts now.

 

If you are going to connect a external clock that "shoud outperform in theory" the internal clock you most certanly will have to use good quality cable with crimped (soldering is not a good way of doing BNC connections) BNC connectors so the cable and contact dont affect the 10MHz signal (this will still be hard to do as the external clock is connected single ended with a cable and BNC connectors) and the internal Crystek clock is connected as a LVDS signal on the circuitboard.

 

@Superdad wrote this on page 43 #1043

 

But ALL clock lines on the EtherREGEN are differential (LVDS), and for the parts that take SE clocks we place high-quality LVDS>SE clock buffers within a few millimeters of the chips they feed.  There are 4 on the board. 

And as mentioned before, EtherREGEN is a 6-layer board--which gives a lot of extra control over ground and power planes and impedance control.

[octaviars]

21 minutes ago, Morph said:

Having read Superdad's post I clicked the link to Audiostore and there were five left to order, four once I'd done so. Next morning they were all gone. 

 

Today there is 22 "in stock" at Audiostores priority list.

 

https://www.vortexbox.co.uk/Uptone_EtherREGEN_priority_list/p317978_19934674.aspx

 

I am still a bit concerned what will happen with Brexit if that occurs at 31 of October.