Tube Amp Break In

[DancingSea]

Is it enough to just have the tube amp on to break in and the caps to form?

 

Or does it need music?

 

Out of the box, the Primaluna Prologue 5 doesn’t sound so great. 

[GUTB]

I believe in regards to tube amps, just having them on counts towards breaking them, but it’s better running a signal through them as that gives it more of a workout chasing speaker loads. 10-14 days is the general rule, but new tube gear can significantly improve by the hour / day in my experience.

[zackthedog]

1 hour ago, DancingSea said:

Is it enough to just have the tube amp on to break in and the caps to form?

 

Or does it need music?

 

Out of the box, the Primaluna Prologue 5 doesn’t sound so great. 

 

Your coupling capacitors and output transformers could use some break-in as well, which means it would help to play music through them.

[elcorso]

About 100 hours intermittent and playing music.

 

Some coupling caps could need more, like the oil filled ones.

 

Roch

[4est]

And if you have not tried different output taps, I suggest you do so regardless of what the specs indicate. IME, you really ought to try. You wont "hurt" anything, and might make a difference. I have no experience with this amp, this is generalized.

[accwai]

58 minutes ago, elcorso said:

About 100 hours intermittent and playing music.

 

Yup. Intermittent is good. This is from the FAQ page on EML's website:

 

Quote

It is better to switch off the amplifier after each use, for best formatting of the cathode. The tubes benefit from the cold periods in between. [...] This slow development of a homogenous layer, is the final burn in process. The tube should be give time for this, and not stressed into it. This is why we advise to do the burn-in process under normal use conditions. Many short use periods have a better result than few long periods. Switch off the amplifier after each use, and in the beginning not use the tubes longer than 4 hours at one time. Many short use periods have a better result than few long periods. The tubes need the „cold“ periods in between for best formatting. Use different loudness levels from the beginning, and increase the maximum loudness gradually.

 

Go to point #2 for full text.

 

By the way, I did the photo next to point #16. Bought a EML 5U4G Mesh around the time the design change was introduced. Really freaked out when I saw the glowing wires inside. Contacted Jac with a glow in the dark photo. He liked it so much he asked for a high rez version to put on the EML website 

[DancingSea]

4 minutes ago, accwai said:

 

Yup. Intermittent is good. This is from the FAQ page on EML's website:

 

 

Go to point #2 for full text.

 

By the way, I did the photo next to point #16. Bought a EML 5U4G Mesh around the time the design change was introduced. Really freaked out when I saw the glowing wires inside. Contacted Jac with a glow in the dark photo. He liked it so much he asked for a high rez version to put on the EML website 

 

Thanks, very interesting.  The only rub is that I only have a 14 day audition window and out of the box the PrimaLuna is intolerable!  The highs are not the least bit smooth.....

 

So I'm winding my way to 100 hours.  But that's interesting, 4 hours at a time.  I'm at 4 hours today so far, maybe I'll shut if off for a few hours and go again....

[pas]

Push/pull amps have a tendency to be bright due to the harmonics and dealing with two crossovers will be a challenge for the Prologue 5.

[zackthedog]

1 hour ago, DancingSea said:

 

Thanks, very interesting.  The only rub is that I only have a 14 day audition window and out of the box the PrimaLuna is intolerable!  The highs are not the least bit smooth.....

 

So I'm winding my way to 100 hours.  But that's interesting, 4 hours at a time.  I'm at 4 hours today so far, maybe I'll shut if off for a few hours and go again....

 

Well, at 36 wpc, you're asking a lot with those SF three-ways.  They suggest *minimum* 40 watts.

 

Honestly, if they're not at least *promising* within your demo window, send them back.  Break-in is certainly helpful but a good match should sound agreeable off the bat...

[elcorso]

Solen caps in your Primaluna Prologue 5 needs at least 100 hours, like KT88 tubes.

 

You can go for longer period playing like 12 hours, then 4 hours resting.  Then you will need about 1 week.

 

Also try the two impedance taps, doesn't matter what your speaker specs say. 

 

Good luck!

 

Roch

 

PS/ Tube amplifiers are very susceptible to speaker cables too...!

[elcorso]

26 minutes ago, zackthedog said:

 

Well, at 36 wpc, you're asking a lot with those SF three-ways.  They suggest *minimum* 40 watts.

 

Honestly, if they're not at least *promising* within your demo window, send them back.  Break-in is certainly helpful but a good match should sound agreeable off the bat...

 

36 wpc from a tube amp could mean 100 wpc from SS...

 

Roch

[DancingSea]

27 minutes ago, zackthedog said:

 

Well, at 36 wpc, you're asking a lot with those SF three-ways.  They suggest *minimum* 40 watts.

 

Honestly, if they're not at least *promising* within your demo window, send them back.  Break-in is certainly helpful but a good match should sound agreeable off the bat...

 

Upscale Audio is a Sonus Faber dealer and swear the Prologue 5 can easily drive them.  Just needs to be 87 db efficiency or higher and the SF's are 90.  They gave me a list of much harder to drive speakers that they say can easily be driven by the Prologue 5.

 

Out of the gate, the Prologue 5 is unbearably bright  and bit flat....  But its very early, only at 8 hours so far...

 

The amp looks absolutely beautiful...

[DancingSea]

5 minutes ago, elcorso said:

Solen caps in your Primaluna Prologue 5 needs at least 100 hours, like KT88 tubes.

 

You can go for longer period playing like 12 hours, then 4 hours resting.  Then you will need about 1 week.

 

Also try the two impedance taps, doesn't matter what your speaker specs say. 

 

Good luck!

 

Roch

 

PS/ Tube amplifiers are very susceptible to speaker cables too...!

 

Thanks, I'll try the 8 ohm taps.  My speakers are 4 ohm speakers....  Upscale Audio suggested trying the 8 ohm as well....

[pas]

13 minutes ago, DancingSea said:

 

Upscale Audio is a Sonus Faber dealer and swear the Prologue 5 can easily drive them.  Just needs to be 87 db efficiency or higher and the SF's are 90.  They gave me a list of much harder to drive speakers that they say can easily be driven by the Prologue 5.

 

Out of the gate, the Prologue 5 is unbearably bright  and bit flat....  But its very early, only at 8 hours so far...

 

The amp looks absolutely beautiful...

I think Upscale Audio is right that 36 watts can drive them but how does it sound?

[pas]

How does it compare to your PS Audio amp?

[zackthedog]

47 minutes ago, DancingSea said:

 

Upscale Audio is a Sonus Faber dealer and swear the Prologue 5 can easily drive them.  Just needs to be 87 db efficiency or higher and the SF's are 90.  They gave me a list of much harder to drive speakers that they say can easily be driven by the Prologue 5.

 

Out of the gate, the Prologue 5 is unbearably bright  and bit flat....  But its very early, only at 8 hours so far...

 

The amp looks absolutely beautiful...

 

90dB doesn't mean anything if you've got second- or third-order crossovers in there.  My ProAcs are 89dB but with a single first-order crossover they sing with 8 watts. ;-)  But if they recommend the combo, then they must know.  I'll be interested to hear whether things smooth out for you.

[zackthedog]

55 minutes ago, elcorso said:

 

36 wpc from a tube amp could mean 100 wpc from SS...

 

Roch

 

...or it could mean 20 decent watts.  It all depends on the quality of the amp.

[DancingSea]

45 minutes ago, pas said:

How does it compare to your PS Audio amp?

 

Cuttently, the fully broken in PS Audio S300 sounds better than the 8 hour break in Prologue 5 across the board.  There’s nothing that sounds better with the PrimaLuna. 

 

As mentiomed, the Prologue 5 is way too bright so far.  But it’s still early. 

 

I had no complaints about the S300, just got curious about tube amps, a long held but untested fascination. 

[pas]

3 minutes ago, DancingSea said:

 

Cuttently, the fully broken in PS Audio S300 sounds better than the 8 hour break in Prologue 5 across the board.  There’s nothing that sounds better with the PrimaLuna. 

 

As mentiomed, the Prologue 5 is way too bright so far.  But it’s still early. 

 

I had no complaints about the S300, just got curious about tube amps, a long held but untested fascination. 

I believe you are hearing crossover distortion that Zack referred to earlier, the Prologue 5 and Chameleons are not a good match in my opinion.

[pas]

In addition, Primaluna must test and run-in the amps prior to shipping. It should be impressive/engaging upon hookup.

[zackthedog]

34 minutes ago, DancingSea said:

 

Cuttently, the fully broken in PS Audio S300 sounds better than the 8 hour break in Prologue 5 across the board.  There’s nothing that sounds better with the PrimaLuna. 

 

As mentiomed, the Prologue 5 is way too bright so far.  But it’s still early. 

 

I had no complaints about the S300, just got curious about tube amps, a long held but untested fascination. 

 

Well, don't judge tube amps on this trial alone. ;-)  

[pas]

11 minutes ago, zackthedog said:

 

Well, don't judge tube amps on this trial alone. ;-)  

Agreed! I have read a lot of positive comments about PrimaLuna. Synergy is the key!

[DancingSea]

51 minutes ago, pas said:

In addition, Primaluna must test and run-in the amps prior to shipping. It should be impressive/engaging upon hookup.

 

PrimaLuna likely tests them.  But Upscale Audio emphasized the unit still needs 100 hours of break in, and that tubes sound "crazy" when they are new.

 

Its ok, I wasn't impressed with the PS Audio Stellar S300 until at least 100 hours of use... then it bloomed.

[DancingSea]

23 minutes ago, zackthedog said:

 

Well, don't judge tube amps on this trial alone. ;-)  

 

7 minutes ago, pas said:

Agreed! I have read a lot of positive comments about PrimaLuna. Synergy is the key!

 

I read so much about PrimaLuna and this particular amp.  Watched tons of videos as well.  All very positive.  Nothing led me to believe it would be bright.  Quite the opposite.  Searching for "Primaluna bright" did bring up comments about the stock tubes being bright for some.

 

Let's see how it breaks in....

[speavler]

lots a variables in a tube setup. you should really withhold conclusions until the gear, and the tubes are fully broken in.  the best power tubes i've had started out as the worst. brightness became clarity.