Blue or red pill?

[Ralf11]

1 hour ago, Superdad said:

...

Mansr or someone else suggested looking at variations in close-in phase-noise ...

 

 

I can't believe that @mansr would trespass on a term trademarked by @jabbr

[Ralf11]

5 hours ago, adamdea said:

...

I not disbelieving any results, only the analysis of what they mean. People do that with experiments. 

 

An important point, and the reason why scientific publications (usually) have separate sections for Results and Discussion...

[Ralf11]

Can we get a Summary of this thread every 100 pages?

[Ralf11]

one way to find out

 

do a test

[Ralf11]

7 hours ago, manisandher said:

At almost 100 pages, shall we just take stock of where we are?

 

A) We know for sure that :

1. the two playback means, A and B, were bit-identical
2. A and B were audibly different (to a 99% probability), once they passed through a DAC

 

B) With no evidence to the contrary, it's reasonable to assume that:

1. the DAC received bit-identical data in both cases
2. the A/B/X was conducted in a trustworthy manner

C) We can speculate that:

1. the audible differences were caused by different 'jitter signatures' in the DAC during the D-to-A process
2. the effect of these jitter signatures on the sound is difficult to capture with a modern, well-respected ADC

Mani.

 

Thx Mani.  What about the switches in the software?

[Ralf11]

mani, If you get 10/10 on the capture, I will buy you a beer.  I expect you can do it easily.

[Ralf11]

1 minute ago, sandyk said:

 

LOL !

Seems that poor Miska has been wasting his time here then .

 

Even your Avatar shows what a closed mind you have and how much sand you kick into every thread.

Numerous members can tell you anything you want...  Many, many members

[Ralf11]

If you were to do another session, what would you change?

 

Use the Phasure DAC?

 

 

[Ralf11]

how revealing does the system need to be anyway?

[Ralf11]

Is my system revealing enough?

 

(Maggie 3.7, Sunfire amp, ARC LS25 Mk II pre-amp, DacPlus DAC, Redbook CD or SACDs)

[Ralf11]

We still have not established that a difference that is hearable by most audiophiles exists.  Possibly, only 1 or 2 very careful listeners can hear this difference.

[Ralf11]

also " normal circumstances" is not very specific

 

The one thing that bothers me some in this test is that some trials were apparently thrown out.  Otherwise it seems there a small difference that can be heard by at least some humans.

 

The mechanism is unclear but software settings seem a likely culprit...

[Ralf11]

7 hours ago, mansr said:

It's not necessary to be aware of it beforehand in order to be influenced by it.

 

Different keys do make slightly different clicks, but more importantly the number and timing of the clicks would have differed. Experiments have demonstrated the ability to recover typed information, typically passwords, from nothing more than the sound of the keyboard.

 

yes, the CIA has done that - in some cases by using laser interferometry off of an exterior window...

 

but if "keyboard clicks were audible through the closed door" there is a simple test for that and you don't need to make another trip

[Ralf11]

7 hours ago, Audiophile Neuroscience said:

 

IMO that is not fair. You need to provide evidence of how and why the results are invalid, not speculation. I wholeheartedly agree that reproducing the results would add further strength but that does not invalidate the available evidence.

 

 

well, no

 

or I could say Hell NO!

 

the affirmative has the burden of proof - you know that from reading in science

[Ralf11]

7 hours ago, Audiophile Neuroscience said:

 

IMO that is not fair. You need to provide evidence of how and why the results are invalid, not speculation. I wholeheartedly agree that reproducing the results would add further strength but that does not invalidate the available evidence.

 

 

well, no

 

or I could say Hell NO!

 

the affirmative has the burden of proof - you know that from reading in science

[Ralf11]

No, this not the way science works!  We have some evidence, but it is no way at scientific level.

 

I'll agree there appears to be a hearable difference (by some people).

 

 

[Ralf11]

As someone who published my first scientific paper in the mid-'70s I'm not going to agree with all the above, esp. the methodology comment.  (and a good methods section would help)

 

There is something tho. 

 

Enough to apply for a grant, not enough to publish...

[Ralf11]

proof is really a legal term - no scientist uses that word

 

does the avatar help?

[Ralf11]

12 hours ago, Audiophile Neuroscience said:

 

Hmmm I have two working theories:

 

You are the mummy from space.

OR

An electron microscope image of the inner ear

 

# 2 - discussed on another thread - sending you a pm

[Ralf11]

It would be easy to test the clicking thru closed doors tell hypo. as a confounding effect.  Mani could kill that one w/out much time investment.

 

I do not think this has a very important effect on SQ, and would much rather see you guys engineer some great (and cheap) DSP for my Maggies.  But (BUT) it is interesting, and I will contribute a beer* if you or even any one of you plus another person does another trial - maybe dust off that phasure next time(?)

 

 

* transportation costs not included

[Ralf11]

We do know that things at a subliminal unconscious level can affect choices, preferences and perceptions - even in cross-sensory areas.

 

in ~2010 German researchers tested preferences and perceptions of 150 subjects drinking Riesling wine - they preferred the wines under red or blue light rel. to green or white light

 

135 subjects (hapless undergrads. IIRC)  perceived 8 wine samples as 'spicier' under green or blue light and fruitier under red light

 

Cambridge Univ. has an entire lab center on cross-sensory effects

 

I'll agree to seemingly unlikely on the keyboard tells thing, but if you have an unusual result you want unusually good evidence.  I suggest you guys continue, expand and publish.

[Ralf11]

I prefer to shave with this:

 

 

[Ralf11]

later transmogrified into this:

 

 

 

[Ralf11]

I hope you guys will focus on the mechanism for whatever you may have found at whatever likelihood of significance...

[Ralf11]

that LP should have a Red side and a Blue side