Ripping HDCD on a Mac

[Ralf11]

Can XLD rip the HDCD 'portions' of an HDCD CD onto a Mac?

 

If so, what types of files can I choose?  Apple Lossless, AIFF, etc. ?

 

 

[HardrockInMiniMac]

Would it make sense to assume to anything your CD-Drive cannot read may not be available for ripping?

[mansr]

Any CD drive and ripping software will read an HDCD correctly. The HDCD code is in the LSB of the audio. You'll obviously want to decode this to normal PCM for best sound. I don't know whether XLD can do this, but it doesn't need to be done during ripping.

[pkane2001]

1 hour ago, mansr said:

Any CD drive and ripping software will read an HDCD correctly. The HDCD code is in the LSB of the audio. You'll obviously want to decode this to normal PCM for best sound. I don't know whether XLD can do this, but it doesn't need to be done during ripping.

 

When I ripped my HDCDs, XLD couldn't process HDCD format and so ripping was an exact copy of the bits, without HDCD decoding. dbPoweramp will convert 16/44.1 HDCDs to 24/44.1 during ripping and will process HDCD bit correctly, so your player doesn't need to know anything about HDCD format.

[warp2600]

AFAIK dbPoweramp's feature of ripping HDCDs into 24bit files is Windows only. (Perhaps it has something to do with the fact that the HDCD licence is owned by Microsoft)

[pkane2001]

12 minutes ago, warp2600 said:

AFAIK dbPoweramp's feature of ripping HDCDs into 24bit files is Windows only. (Perhaps it has something to do with the fact that the HDCD licence is owned by Microsoft)

 

I did it from an iMac.

[Ralf11]

how did you get any HDCD options to show up under the DSP facility?

 

or are you running Windows on your iMac?

[pkane2001]

2 hours ago, Ralf11 said:

how did you get any HDCD options to show up under the DSP facility?

 

or are you running Windows on your iMac?

Click on Add DSP button.

 

[Ralf11]

Thanks - I was looking in the CD Ripper program.  Apparently,it won't do that, and one first needs to rip the CD, then load the File Conversion program to do HDCD converson

 

(then go back and delete the original CD rip)

[pkane2001]

9 hours ago, Ralf11 said:

Thanks - I was looking in the CD Ripper program.  Apparently,it won't do that, and one first needs to rip the CD, then load the File Conversion program to do HDCD converson

 

(then go back and delete the original CD rip)

 

I'm not sure what you're trying to do, Ralf. It's pretty simple to add DSP HDCD processor to the CD Ripper in dBpoweramp (on the Mac). Just start CD Ripper. Where you see DSP/Encoder/Meta buttons stacked vertically, click on DSP, then Add DSP button.  Select HDCD from the list. That's about it. Now you can set all other rip settings, and start ripping. dBpoweramp ripper will automatically decode HDCD disks when it detects HDCD encoding.

[Ralf11]

Screen Shot 2017-12-29 at 12.45.57 PM.jp2

 

I can convert the files but not in CD Ripper (pic shown).

Screen Shot 2017-12-29 at 12.45.57 PM.jp2

[Ralf11]

which for some reason, will attach but not insert

[pkane2001]

On 12/29/2017 at 3:48 PM, Ralf11 said:

Screen Shot 2017-12-29 at 12.45.57 PM.jp2

 

I can convert the files but not in CD Ripper (pic shown).

Screen Shot 2017-12-29 at 12.45.57 PM.jp2

 

Are you sure the original CD is HDCD encoded?  I don't see anything on your screen shot that would indicate any problem, except maybe that the album is from 1989, and HDCD was first released in 1995.

[Ralf11]

well, it is a Dead CD so very likely to use HDCD

 

- since I discovered I can rip using iTunes, then go back and de-whatever with the File converter, there should be no problem (except that I'd need to find a DAC that recognizes & decodes HDCD)

 

the real issue was that I kept seeing internet posts on various web sites saying that CD Ripper would do the processing of HDCD, when that was not true...

[pkane2001]

13 minutes ago, Ralf11 said:

the real issue was that I kept seeing internet posts on various web sites saying that CD Ripper would do the processing of HDCD, when that was not true...

 

It's absolutely true. I've ripped about 30-40 HDCDs on iMac using it, and it worked like a champ.

 

[Ralf11]

you used CD Ripper itself, not the file converter???

 

I tired out the free test software pkg (latest version, 16.2), and the HDCD conversion for DSP could not be found in the CD Ripper - only in the Converter

[pkane2001]

10 hours ago, Ralf11 said:

you used CD Ripper itself, not the file converter???

 

I tired out the free test software pkg (latest version, 16.2), and the HDCD conversion for DSP could not be found in the CD Ripper - only in the Converter

 

I used an older version of dbPoweramp (about a year ago), but 16.2 version now still shows HDCD DSP as available in CD Ripper on my computer. I wonder if that's a leftover from the older version and is no longer included?

[Ralf11]

dunno - heard that the Mac version now included HDCD so thought I might as well try

 

this is complicated by 2 claims:

1. that it is really the great Pacific Microsonics A to D that makes the difference (when coupled with a good DAC), not HDCD per se

2. that bad things can happen if you don't convert HDCD tracks 

 

My new OPPO does not not decode HDCD so it is mostly moot for now...

[pkane2001]

17 hours ago, Ralf11 said:

dunno - heard that the Mac version now included HDCD so thought I might as well try

 

this is complicated by 2 claims:

1. that it is really the great Pacific Microsonics A to D that makes the difference (when coupled with a good DAC), not HDCD per se

2. that bad things can happen if you don't convert HDCD tracks 

 

My new OPPO does not not decode HDCD so it is mostly moot for now...

 

I'm still confused. I see others are using HDCD DSP option in the latest CD Ripper. I also see it. Shown below. Do you not see it?

 

 

The point of this HDCD DSP filter is that once captured, CD Ripper applies the HDCD transformation to the data read from the CD, expands it from 16 bits to 24 bits, and writes the standard PCM 24/44.1KHz data in the format of your choice (I use FLAC).

 

To play this file, you don't need your DAC to have any HDCD processing, since it's already been applied by the DSP filter. The resulting file is in a simple PCM format with higher precision than the original CD. Supposedly, HDCD decoding can produce up to 20 bits of useful information, so 24 bit format is plenty good enough to support the decoded data.

 

 

[miguelito]

On 12/26/2017 at 6:30 PM, Ralf11 said:

Can XLD rip the HDCD 'portions' of an HDCD CD onto a Mac?

XLD can and does rip bit-perfect. Suggest you do that.

 

Decoding HDCD is what you're asking about. The way to do it on a mac is to use dbPowerAmp (windows version) with hdcd.exe. This works with Wine emulators so no need to install Windows or Parallels or similar. You just take the 16bit/44KHz files you ripped and it will produce 24bit/44KHz files after decoding. I believe the "true" resolution out of the decoder is 20bit/44KHz. 

 

Also note there's no need to re-rip an old rip if it was done bit-perfect. If somehow the HDCD info got lost, the output out of dbPowerAmp will be 16bit/44KHz. I don't know of a way to "detect" HDCD without actually decoding it.

 

[miguelito]

25 minutes ago, pkane2001 said:

 

I'm still confused. I see others are using HDCD DSP option in the latest CD Ripper. I also see it. Shown below. Do you not see it?

 

 

The point of this HDCD DSP filter is that once captured, CD Ripper applies the HDCD transformation to the data read from the CD, expands it from 16 bits to 24 bits, and writes the standard PCM 24/44.1KHz data in the format of your choice (I use FLAC).

 

To play this file, you don't need your DAC to have any HDCD processing, since it's already been applied by the DSP filter. The resulting file is in a simple PCM format with higher precision than the original CD. Supposedly, HDCD decoding can produce up to 20 bits of useful information, so 24 bit format is plenty good enough to support the decoded data.

 

 

Thx. Didn't know the native mac version could do this.

[miguelito]

18 hours ago, Ralf11 said:

1. that it is really the great Pacific Microsonics A to D that makes the difference (when coupled with a good DAC), not HDCD per se

Nah...

 

18 hours ago, Ralf11 said:

 

2. that bad things can happen if you don't convert HDCD tracks 

Ok that's hillarious. Like what?

[Ralf11]

5 hours ago, pkane2001 said:

 

To play this file, you don't need your DAC to have any HDCD processing, since it's already been applied by the DSP filter. The resulting file is in a simple PCM format with higher precision than the original CD. Supposedly, HDCD decoding can produce up to 20 bits of useful information, so 24 bit format is plenty good enough to support the decoded data.

 

 

 

 

Thanks - I did  not realize that.

 

Can I write it to Apple Lossless while retaining the HDCD processing?

 

2nd, can I transfer it over an Apple TV3 to my DAC?

[pkane2001]

11 minutes ago, Ralf11 said:

 

 

Thanks - I did  not realize that.

 

Can I write it to Apple Lossless while retaining the HDCD processing?

 

2nd, can I transfer it over an Apple TV3 to my DAC?

 

You can write Apple Lossless, 24bit/48KHz format, but I don't believe Apple TV supports more than 16bits. I could be wrong. If so, the files will most likely still play, but you'll lose most of the purported benefit of HDCD by not using the extra bits.

 

[miguelito]

28 minutes ago, Ralf11 said:

Can I write it to Apple Lossless while retaining the HDCD processing?

The decoded version out of dbPowerAmp does not have any HDCD anything in it anymore, the additional resolution above and beyond 16bit was recovered in the decoding process. So yes, you can save it in any lossless format (Apple Lossless, AIFF, WAV, FLAC, etc) and retain the full resolution of the decoded file.

 

Quote

2nd, can I transfer it over an Apple TV3 to my DAC?

I am not sure if the transfer via Apple TV3 is lossless above 16bit - my understanding is that Airplay is limited to 16bit resolution at 44KHz or 48KHz sampling rate. If this is the case you'd lose what you gained basically. 

 

If your DAC can tell you what signal is coming in (and the bit depth) you could check this out - if it's getting 24bit/44KHz then almost surely you're getting all of the data.