Is Drobo still one of the best storage solutions? Other questions too.

[KDinsmore]

Newb posting here to the site. I've been a reader/lurker for well over a year. I want to start ripping all my discs and save them to storage but haven't started yet because I keep reading about this and changing my mind. Originally I was going to go with the Western Digital my book. Then I read more and think I should get a Drobo small version since I don't want disk failure and have to start all over at some point. I'm running an old Dell and need to buy something new which leads to the Apple/Windows (Velocity looks nice) debate. Plus the CAPS looks sweeter than pie! I was thinking about getting the Ayre QB-9 but after the review of the new NAD M2 in this months Stereophile that has much greater appeal by eliminating all the extra boxes (preamp, amp, DAC plus all the cables). I really like the idea of having a Xonar Essence sound card and using that directly into my headphone amp and then using the USB for the big rig. Of course Apple doesn't have the sound card option.

 

I really love the site here and it's already been a huge help. It's almost like the audio guys don't want you to find out about all this because of course it can prove to be so much less........but that's my 60's cynicism.

 

Keith

 

[catastrofe]

I love my Drobo/Droboshare!

 

[The Computer Audiophile]

Hi Keith - Thanks for finally jumping into the conversations here on CA. Drobo is still one of the easiest storage solutions. I recently discovered a different solution that is even simpler and has great flexibility in terms of disks etc...

 

If you want to directly connect the disks to you server via USB, FireWire 400 or 800, or eSATA then I recommend looking at the DataTale http://oyendigital.com/hard-drives/store/RS-M4QO.html

 

This device doesn't have any software configuration. RAID and the number of disks are configured by two sets of simple dip switches on the back. The only hesitation is noise I don't know how audible the unit would be in your environment. If you can store drives behind a wall like I do then noise isn't really an issue.

 

This unit allows you to purchase the enclosure only and purchase whatever drives you want from anyone you want. You can also order the whole thing from Oyen.

 

[KDinsmore]

This really looks nice. Again, thanks for your website. It has already saved me from making some big mistakes. I still have many choices to make and it's good to know I can get answers here.

 

Keith

 

[RayW]

Here are a couple of alternatives to the DataTale Direct Attached Storage (DAS) unit. Like the DataTale, they hold 4 drives and have multiple RAID modes and interfaces. Anyone have experience with or comments about these?

 

Promise Technology DS4600: About $370 diskless or $800 with 4x1TB drives.

Pros: They publish a disk drive compatibility list. Enterprise-class drives with TLER (Time-Limited Error Recovery) are recommended.

This unit is sold by the Apple Store, so should be qualified for Macs.

 

LaCie 4TB 4big. Can be bought for $657 (B&H Photo Video) with drives.

Pros: Claims to have given much design attention to making the fan quiet.

Also sold by the Apple Store, so should be qualified for Macs.

Cons: Not sold without drives. They choose the drive model. You don't know what it is until you get your hands on one. If a drive needs replacement, you are supposed to contact LaCie.

 

DataTale 4-bay: About $300 diskless.

Cons: No drive compatibility list. This is a concern because of the TLER issue discussed in another CA thread.

 

Ray

 

[Audio_ELF]

One thing I'm not sure if was mentioned in this thread, and unsure if the others support, but one of the points with the Drobo is that drives don't have to be identical in size where as with most RAID solutions they do.

 

I.e. you can start with 1x 1TB drives in a Drobo giving you 1TB usuable space. Later you can add a 2TB drive and (without user intervention) the available storage increases to 1.8TB.

 

I'm unsure if any of the other drives mentioned support this kind of feature.

 

Eloise

 

[Guest WATERLOGIC]

DROBO - Head-to-head with Traditional RAID check this:

http://www.drobo.com/resources/beyondraid.php

 

and calculator for available space this :

 

http://www.drobo.com/calculator/drobo-s/index.php .

 

I use two DROBOs (actually 3 backups) for 2 years and never a single problem.

Everything is done automatically, also one of the quietest .

If you have a huge library i.e. > 2TB - highly recommended.

(I believe having two backups is minimum necessary to avoid a disaster of losing the data).

 

 

 

[brw]

Having followed Computer Audiophile with interest and appreciation, in equal measure since its inception (the 90% community, according to the 90-9-1 Principle; http://www.90-9-1.com/), I'm pleased to finally emerge from stealth and join the conversation.

 

Given the criticality of data to a computer audiophile (not to mention, risk associated with a MacBook Pro repository which belongs to my employer), I envision a reliable, performant, cost-effective network storage solution as the foundation for my computer audio system. An IT industry veteran of more than 30 years, I'm mindful of GIGO (Garbage In, Garbage Out) whether grinding coffee or listening to music. Owing to yuppie roots too, only the best for my dog - err, future DAC will do.

 

So which NAS then? As you might imagine after countless hours of research, absorbing innumerable opinions, I have a perspective on Data Robotics (DROBO), Netgear (ReadyNAS), QNAP, Synology and Thecus. In short, they're all good; some are better. Like the engineer's lament, pick any two of good, fast, and cheap.

 

Motivated by its inclusion on the C.A.S.H. List, the ONNTO DataTale was similarly subjected to my virtual scrutiny today. Ever more value-conscious, I have to say it looks good from far - however a "Very Important Manufacturer Support Notice" here http://www.cooldrives.com/ra4xhddto133.html makes it look far from good. Caveat emptor. (Disclosure: I have no conflict of interest whatsoever in sharing this information.)

 

Thanks everyone, especially Chris, for the ongoing education. I'll see you on the bit stream.

 

Brian

 

[f1eng]

I have had a drobo for a couple of years. It has been quiet and reliable however every version of their drobo dashboard I have tried so far has had big problems, from hanging startup to strange disconnection. This is the least stable software I have ever used.

I have lost no data and removing their software has been the solution. The drobo works fine without for the last few months but is slow by modern standards.

Frank

 

[The Computer Audiophile]

Literally 30 seconds ago I unboxed a new Synology DS710+ NAS in for review. I really like what these guys are offering and hope to have a thorough review published in due time.

 

[The Computer Audiophile]

Hi Guys - I did some additional research on the potential Onnto issue described on the Cool Drives site. The situation may not be what Cool Drive's says it is. A few years ago there was an issue with a power supply for an older 3.5-inch Onnto enclosure. This issue was addressed by Onnto and new power supplies were provided to customers. In addition, Cool Drives was an Onnto dealer until Onnto removed them. There apparently was an issue with Cool Drives undercutting other Onnto dealers.

 

 

 

[Dave Clark]

Have the Drobo FS here with three 1TB WD Green drives. Easy to set-up (about 10 mins from sliding the drives into the Drobo to actually transferring files from my old NAS to the Drobo). Fast and dead quiet. Easy and fool-proof.

 

[Turboglo]

An IT acquaintance of mine recently put the fear of God in me regarding my Drobo. He said that while it's true that it automatically mirrors files, it's still possible for corruption to enter both sets of files and cause all kinds of problems. He suggested a completely separate drive to automatically do backup using Time Machine. I'm wondering if anyone else has an opinion about this. Is he just being an over-zealous nervous nelly or would I be tempting fate by ignoring his advise? Also, my problem is that I have an older Mac Mini without Time Machine. Can anyone suggest a good program that will automatically backup from my Drobo, something that will monitor the files and backup what's newly added?

 

[Audio_ELF]

Drobo, like all RAID systems, only protects you from one thing - a drive dying. It is possible for either the drive enclosure, or the operating systems, or by user error for the data to become corrupted - no RAID system will protect you from this. With a lot of RAID arrays you can't even just swap the 3/4/5 drives into a new enclosure if you have a problem.

 

Having a backup on a simple USB drive is a good solution, though you may need several to back up a large Drobo.

 

Check out Superduper for backup on an older Mac - TimeMachine isn't really suitable for backing up Music anyway.

 

Eloise

 

[Turboglo]

I went out and got an extra hard drive and backed my Drobo up using SuperDuper. Very simple to use, except I had one glitch. After backing up, when I went to launch iTunes, I got a message that read, "The folder 'iTunes' is on a locked disc or you do not have write permission." After some research, I found this solution: Right clicked on the Drobo icon, clicked "Get info" and checked "Ignore ownership on this volume" at very bottom of box. That fixed it. Thanks again for pointing me in the direction of SuperDuper. It's one of the most user-friendly programs I've encountered.

 

[sidssp]

Eloise,

 

You are absolutely correct. That is the reason I said RAID is the wrong solution for music server unless you need more than 2TB of storage which is the current limitation of a single drive.

 

 

[JeffH]

You are absolutely correct. That is the reason I said RAID is the wrong solution for music server unless you need more than 2TB of storage which is the current limitation of a single drive.

 

Not for long.

 

Seagate Breaks Capacity Ceiling With World’s First 3 Terabyte External Desktop Drive

 

 

 

[The Computer Audiophile]

This is good news. Does anyone know if it's actually a 3TB drive or Seagate is using compression to obtain the equivalent of 3TB worth of storage? The reason I ask is this drive is external only and not for sale as a standalone disk for internal or external storage. Plus, this technique has been used in the past.

 

Usually drive sizes go up by 250GB or even 500GB not the big jump to 3TB from 2TB.

 

[1audio]

Its real: http://www.crunchgear.com/2010/07/01/hands-on-the-seagate-freeagent-goflex-desk-3tb-external-hard-drive/ But there may be a real problem using it: http://enterprise.media.seagate.com/category/3tb/ The second story discussed a core problem- addressing more than 2.1 TB of data on a single drive. There may need to be a return to some of the kludges of the past to access all of the data.

 

And think of the many hours to reload all that data when the drive fails! For me RAID1 for media storage is the minimum option. preferably on two separate machines.

 

[DanRubin]

>TimeMachine isn't really suitable for backing up Music anyway.

 

Why do you say that?

 

 

 

[joelha]

Hi Chris,

 

Since a little time has passed since your last review of a RAID system, which RAID product would you recommend for:

 

Best price:

 

Quietest operation:

 

Fastest operation:

 

Ease of use and flexibility:

 

Best overall choice:

 

Thanks for offering any thoughts you have on this topic.

 

Joel

 

[Erwin S]

I see my music go beyond 1.5 TB, so I am setting up a RAID system. I chose the Onnto because its looks complement the Mac mini. And it is cheaper. I see no problem in the configuration.

 

I downloaded the manual from the Onnto 4-Bay where the different RAID options are explaned:

http://oyendigital.com/downloads/manuals/DataTale4Bay_UM.pdf

 

RAID 0: if one disk fails, all data is lost!

RAID 1: mirroring works only for 2 disks! Even if all 4 disks are inserted.

RAID 5: capacity is 3 out of 4 disks and if a disk fails, no data is lost when replaced

RAID 5+HotSpare: last disk is empty and if a disk fails, recoverage is automatic! Capacity is only 2 out of 4 disks however.

RAID 0+1: this is the proper mirroring for 2+2 disks. It's fast and if a disk fails (2 even depending on which ones), no data is lost. Capacity is 2 out of 4 disks.

 

I will go for RAID 5 with four 1.5 TB disks. And use a mobile 1.5 TB HD for backup, larger whenever it's full. This could be a very effective solution to get my music in both our old and new house. Just take the mobile HD with us. Also very safe in case of fire or something similar...

 

[Audio_ELF]

RAID 0+1 is a dangerous as once one disk has failed, you have a high risk that another disk failure will loose all your data.

 

If you are using 2 disks, use RAID1

If you are using more than 2 disks, use RAID5

 

Only if you need very high performace ever consider RAID0 or RAID0+1.

 

Eloise

 

PS. RAID0+1 (striped then mirrored) is very different to RAID10 (mirrored then striped). The later is very secure/fault tollerant.

 

[joelha]

Thanks for your post, Erwin.

 

Can the Onnto, like the Drobo, house drives of different manufacturers and different capacities at the same time?

 

Joel

 

[Audio_ELF]

Normally RAID devices work best / are recommended that you use 2/3/4 identical drives. You can usually mix drives (even if not recommended) but the available space will be limited by the smallest drive.

 

i.e. 4x1TB will give you 3TB under RAID5; 2x1TB + 2x2TB will still give you 3TB unlike a Drobo which would give you 3.6TB (Drobo gives figure of 2.7 for 4x1TB).

 

Also with the Drobo, if you have 4x 1TB, you can pull out one of them and replace it with a 2TB to increase the storage space, this is usually impossible/not recommended (some NAS devices you can replace drives 1 at a time to increase the in size) with other RAID solutions.

 

Eloise