Jud Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 Am I viewing the 10kHz sine wave graph correctly to show all else but the 10kHz signal is -100db or lower? (For the 20kHz graph - wow!) One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein Computer, Audirvana -> optical Ethernet to Fitlet3 -> Fibbr Alpha Optical USB -> iFi NEO iDSD DAC -> Apollon Audio 1ET400A Mini (Purifi based) -> Vandersteen 3A Signature. Link to comment
audiventory Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 Am I viewing the 10kHz sine wave graph correctly to show all else but the 10kHz signal is -100db or lower? (For the 20kHz graph - wow!) It is not correct input signal. Just the research how the codec react to different input signals. If input signal correctly coded the codec should work correctly. Now need encoder for full research. AuI ConverteR 48x44 - HD audio converter/optimizer for DAC of high resolution files ISO, DSF, DFF (1-bit/D64/128/256/512/1024), wav, flac, aiff, alac, safe CD ripper to PCM/DSF, Seamless Album Conversion, AIFF, WAV, FLAC, DSF metadata editor, Mac & WindowsOffline conversion save energy and nature Link to comment
mansr Posted January 9, 2017 Author Share Posted January 9, 2017 It is not correct input signal. Just the research how the codec react to different input signals. If input signal correctly coded the codec should work correctly. Now need encoder for full research. In what sense is a 10 kHz sine wave not correct? Link to comment
mansr Posted January 9, 2017 Author Share Posted January 9, 2017 Does the data support the "Master Quality" claim? From what I've seen so far, hell no. Link to comment
audiventory Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 In what sense is a 10 kHz sine wave not correct? For pure experiment need to check coded 10 kHz. I'm programmer, and I doubt everywhere ;-) AuI ConverteR 48x44 - HD audio converter/optimizer for DAC of high resolution files ISO, DSF, DFF (1-bit/D64/128/256/512/1024), wav, flac, aiff, alac, safe CD ripper to PCM/DSF, Seamless Album Conversion, AIFF, WAV, FLAC, DSF metadata editor, Mac & WindowsOffline conversion save energy and nature Link to comment
mansr Posted January 9, 2017 Author Share Posted January 9, 2017 For pure experiment need to check coded 10 kHz. I don't have an encoder, so I can't do that. Still, any audio processing that mangles a trivial signal this badly raises some doubts. Link to comment
audiventory Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 I don't have an encoder, so I can't do that. I know it. Still, any audio processing that mangles a trivial signal this badly raises some doubts. Possibly bug there. Possibly - not. We can suppose only, how it must work. AuI ConverteR 48x44 - HD audio converter/optimizer for DAC of high resolution files ISO, DSF, DFF (1-bit/D64/128/256/512/1024), wav, flac, aiff, alac, safe CD ripper to PCM/DSF, Seamless Album Conversion, AIFF, WAV, FLAC, DSF metadata editor, Mac & WindowsOffline conversion save energy and nature Link to comment
Samuel T Cogley Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 I don't have an encoder, so I can't do that. Still, any audio processing that mangles a trivial signal this badly raises some doubts. Is it really a fair test to input a non-encoded signal? I'm really digging your spectrum plots, but without understanding precisely what the encoder does, pumping a sine wave into the decoder is a meaningless exercise IMHO. Link to comment
mansr Posted January 9, 2017 Author Share Posted January 9, 2017 Possibly bug there. Possibly - not. We can suppose only, how it must work. Sure, it could be a bug, but then everybody is listening to this bug. Link to comment
audiventory Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 Sure, it could be a bug, but then everybody is listening to this bug. Try sweep sine or 10010, 10020, etc. Possibly there FFT grid to measured sine frequency issue. For analysis of sweep sine need to look to time-frequency spectrum diagramm. AuI ConverteR 48x44 - HD audio converter/optimizer for DAC of high resolution files ISO, DSF, DFF (1-bit/D64/128/256/512/1024), wav, flac, aiff, alac, safe CD ripper to PCM/DSF, Seamless Album Conversion, AIFF, WAV, FLAC, DSF metadata editor, Mac & WindowsOffline conversion save energy and nature Link to comment
mansr Posted January 9, 2017 Author Share Posted January 9, 2017 Try sweep sine or 10010, 10020, etc. Possibly there FFT grid to measured sine frequency issue. For analysis of sweep sine need to look to time-frequency spectrum diagramm. The same FFT of a 10 kHz tone that hasn't gone through the MQA decoder looks fine. Link to comment
YashN Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 Sure, it could be a bug, but then everybody is listening to this bug. Is there another set of MQA codec software that you or someone else could test with the same file? Dedicated Line DSD/DXD | Audirvana+ | iFi iDSD Nano | SET Tube Amp | Totem Mites Surround: VLC | M-Audio FastTrack Pro | Mac Opt | Panasonic SA-HE100 | Logitech Z623 DIY: SET Tube Amp | Low-Noise Linear Regulated Power Supply | USB, Power, Speaker Cables | Speaker Stands | Acoustic Panels Link to comment
audiventory Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 The same FFT of a 10 kHz tone that hasn't gone through the MQA decoder looks fine. Got it. But if you will have time, would be interesting reaction to sweep sine. AuI ConverteR 48x44 - HD audio converter/optimizer for DAC of high resolution files ISO, DSF, DFF (1-bit/D64/128/256/512/1024), wav, flac, aiff, alac, safe CD ripper to PCM/DSF, Seamless Album Conversion, AIFF, WAV, FLAC, DSF metadata editor, Mac & WindowsOffline conversion save energy and nature Link to comment
mansr Posted January 9, 2017 Author Share Posted January 9, 2017 Got it. But if you will have time, would be interesting reaction to sweep sine. semente 1 Link to comment
stellablues Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 pretty. what does that represent and what does it show? thanks for the education MacMini (JS-2) > iUSB > Regen > MDAC > Decware Mystery > Ellis 1801 Link to comment
mansr Posted January 9, 2017 Author Share Posted January 9, 2017 pretty. what does that represent and what does it show? thanks for the education It's a spectrogram of a sine sweep 0-22.05 kHz. It should show just a single line from the bottom left to the middle of the right-hand edge. What we see here is lots of aliasing and distortion products. It may be pretty, but it's wrong. semente 1 Link to comment
mansr Posted January 9, 2017 Author Share Posted January 9, 2017 Impulse response of the resampler: Minimum phase. No surprise there. Link to comment
mansr Posted January 9, 2017 Author Share Posted January 9, 2017 And 0 dBFS square wave: Link to comment
Vincent1234 Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 Is it really a fair test to input a non-encoded signal? I'm really digging your spectrum plots, but without understanding precisely what the encoder does, pumping a sine wave into the decoder is a meaningless exercise IMHO. I would say so too.. How can you judge what MQA is actually outputting when all you have is the decoder side of the process? It's like reading the last chapter of a book and judging the full story without reading the first three chapters. Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Computer Audiophile mobile app Link to comment
Jud Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 It's a spectrogram of a sine sweep 0-22.05 kHz. It should show just a single line from the bottom left to the middle of the right-hand edge. What we see here is lots of aliasing and distortion products. It may be pretty, but it's wrong. Right, the "decoder" portion of this evidently goes for minimizing pre-ringing at the expense of allowing a lot of aliasing. So unless aliases were removed in encoding.... Sent from my iPhone using Computer Audiophile One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein Computer, Audirvana -> optical Ethernet to Fitlet3 -> Fibbr Alpha Optical USB -> iFi NEO iDSD DAC -> Apollon Audio 1ET400A Mini (Purifi based) -> Vandersteen 3A Signature. Link to comment
matthias Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 Interesting that MQA claims to correct ADC and DAC characteristics. Matt "I want to know why the musicians are on stage, not where". (John Farlowe) Link to comment
Vincent1234 Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 Interesting that MQA claims to correct ADC and DAC characteristics. Matt Yes, but we cannot judge this without including the encoder side of the process in these graphs. Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Computer Audiophile mobile app Link to comment
comedus06 Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 Have you read from the start of the thread? Mansr posted spectrograms of original DXD, non-decoded MQA and decoded MQA files. Presumably the MQA files were encoded on the encoder side! Link to comment
matthias Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 Yes, but we cannot judge this without including the encoder side of the process in these graphs.Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Computer Audiophile mobile app But you can compare the DXD original to the combined encoded and decoded MQA as Mansr did and the outcome for MQA is not very favorable. Matt "I want to know why the musicians are on stage, not where". (John Farlowe) Link to comment
Vincent1234 Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 Have you read from the start of the thread? Mansr posted spectrograms of original DXD, non-decoded MQA and decoded MQA files. Presumably the MQA files were encoded on the encoder side! I get it now, thanks for clarifying. But I still think that to be able to really analyse what MQA is doing one should in fact be able to compare the actual input of (and before) the encoder with the output after the decoder. I understand now this is hard or impossible to achieve and therefore a DXD file has been used for comparison. Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Computer Audiophile mobile app Link to comment
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