A novel way to massively improve the SQ of computer audio streaming

[mozes]

These are not SOTM switches, they are made by someone else who knows SOTM. May clarified this on the above mentioned  thread.

[mozes]

1 hour ago, rickca said:

Yes I saw that comment from May.  So I'm curious about the source of @JJ Braham's information that these switches have sCLK-EX and sCLK-OCX10 clocks in them.  It doesn't make sense.

Agree, BTW, SOTM are also working on their own audiophile switches which might see the light early in 2018

[mozes]

@austinpop your contributions are very much appreciated. I like the simple empirical approach you lead on this thread. As always, I also have an open mind like you.

[mozes]

8 minutes ago, ElviaCaprice said:

@marce, any opinion or reference on best mobo to do our sCLK-EX server with?  Always looking for a better build quality without costing an arm and a leg.

+1

[mozes]

21 minutes ago, Johnseye said:

Evidence of why a smaller board would be better.  I can see its implications when using the sCLK-EX. 

In this case, does it make sense to consider Pico ITX boards?

[mozes]

4 minutes ago, jabbr said:

Right so believe what you want and who knows why you hear what you hear . and arbitrarily choose to believe who you want to believe. Sounds random to me.

 

What actual evidence do you have that this entire thread isn’t just a couple of blokes who agree with each other at a pub?

If we were here to produce scientific knowledge,  I agree we would have to ensure that we have reliability and validity regarding planning, collecting and interpretating data. The truth is far from that. We are just a bunch of audiophiles who have common interest in how to reproduce the best SQ from computer related devices. So some of our empirical findings are probably neither supported nor explained by scientific evidence, but we see the proof when we listen to our systems. The empirical reportings of other members on this thread have elevated my system beyond my expectations and I am grateful to everyone who shared their experience on this thread.

[mozes]

1 hour ago, Johnseye said:

First off I want to comment on how amazing May and Lee have been to work with.  Their time zone is GMT +9 which means they're 15 hours ahead of my time zone.  This makes the time window for communication short.  Phone communication with May is also challenging.  I tried calling many times but could not coordinate once.  Then May suggested Whatsapp and that's when it clicked.  She made herself available very very late in her day.  Because of how custom this work is, not to mention the further customizations I requested, there's nothing spelled out in writing about how it should work.  This thread is your best resource, and specifically Roy's post about his sCLK-ex build with pictures.  Pictures are worth a thousand words.

 

My modified equipment should be in my hands early this week.  Shipping my board, memory and switch (no need to ship SSD) via FedEx was about $95 and I work for a logistics company with an excellent FedEx discount.  I shipped it on a Friday and they had it in hand on Monday.  Once SOtM was able to look at the board and tell me what could be done I spent 3 days attempting to communicate via email which was a huge waste of time.  Once I was able to finalize the build it took SOtM a day or less to get the work done.  SOtM's cost to return ship from SK was even less at about $65.

 

 tX-USBultra breakout

 

I did not own a tX-USBultra before so couldn't get a look inside.  I also couldn't find a good picture of how the sCLK-EX and USB module inside the chassis were connected.  I'd still like to get a good look at how they are connected so if anyone has a picture or could take one, specifically showing the DC power and clock tap connections between the power module, USB module and sCLK-EX not only would I appreciate it, but it would clear things up for anyone else looking to do this mod.

 

According to Steven at Audio Stream, the tX-USBultra is an sCLK-EX and tX-USBhubIN.  Considering the cost of these two cards separately is $700 (with one tap) + $350 you get a slight price break at $990 plus you get the tX-USBultra chassis.  I don't know for sure if it is the tX-USBhubIN as I never asked this directly of May.  So I will refer to it as the "USB module" because that's what May called it.  Crux was also offering a 10% discount which May honored for the tX-USBultra and tX-USBexp only.  All other hardware and work were at standard costs.  If May no longer honors that discount, maybe buy it from Crux first then ship it with your other hardware.

 

I went with the 12v version because I've loosely heard this offers better SQ, but my SR7 can also power it.  The sMS-500 can also do the job, and I have a hunch the next version of the LPS-1 will also.  According to May, the DC power into the tX-USBultra goes to the sCLK-EX first, is "purified" and then goes to the USB module.  I still don't know how the sCLK-EX feeds power to the USB module so I had to wing my solution and in doing so accounted for every possible option.  I couldn't get a clear understanding from May despite asking the question from several different angles how the USB card gets powered by the sCLK-EX.  I chalk it up to communicating over text.  A good picture of an intact tX-USBultra should clear this up.  What I have is the option to power the tX-USBultra chassis and USB module inside it direct from a 2.5mm DC in and that can either come from an external source or from the sCLK-EX as you see in the picture below.  What I wanted was a simple cable directly connecting the two cards.  I didn't want to have to use multiple LPSUs to power both cards since I had planned for the SR7 to do this.  I still may be able to power it through that blue and white cable directly, but this also may not be possible due to the need for the USB module to be connected to the external DC power in.  This is the unknown at this point.  I can power the sCLK-EX from an external power source (extra $55)  or I can power it via SATA which you see in this picture.  What I'm hoping is possible, is that my SR7 plugs into the tX-USBexp card's external IN, feeding the sCLK-EX, then the tX-USBultra (USB module).  Something very helpful to note is that the external DC IN power bracket can be adjusted on the sCLK-EX to take 6.5-8.5, 9 or 12v.

 

I opted for the 50 ohm master clock for wider compatibility options in the future.  Everything you see in the picture can be timed with as a single master clock connection.  I ordered a 6" SMB cable from DigiKey, part number J1206-ND.  SOtM provides a 1M cable only.  All direct clock tap connections from the sCLK-EX use a removable cable which looks to me like 6".  Direct taps from the sCLK-EX are $50 and include the cable.  The SMB connection is a tap @ $50 plus $70 for the SMB adapter and cable.

 

Motherboard and SATA II

 

The Jetway NF591-3160 has a quad core Celeron with frequency of 1.6GHz and burst to 2.24GHz.  It runs at 6W TDP.  It will upsample PCM to 192kHZ with ease.  This proc can not be dumbed down in the BIOS.  Unless I can't find how to lower the frequency, that's it.  I don't know if Roy's DFI board can be dumbed down, but may be worth checking if you want that.  I chose this board for a few reasons.  It has an M.2 slot.  This opens up SSD options.  I had been hoping to use an Optane drive with it, but am not sure if that's possible.  Regardless, I can make a direct SSD connection to the board without a cable via M.2 eliminating any noise that could enter a cable.  At the last minute, after reading some current conversations about noisy SSD's, I decided to take Roy's advice and buy an Intel X-25 E SLC SSD and SOtM's SATA II filter.  Refer to Roy's post as to why he believes this to be the best known solution to eliminate noise with an SSD.  I trust his research.  The board has a PCI slot and a mini-PCIe slot for multiple PCI card options.

 

One thing I noticed while looking at the picture of Roy's board is that his SSD was externally powered.  He did not mention how he did this.  I have an option to power a SATA device from the mobo via a cable.  I will compare this vs. the external connection.  This external DC to SSD power option wasn't cheap.  I have no idea why, but it's $55 for the external power IN, plus $150 for the cable to the SSD.  I sure hope that cable is silver because it's only 30CM long.  It's not listed on SOtM's site.

 

The mobo has 6 clock points: Main clock, 2*LAN, USB, Display, and I.O. Controller.  I believe the IO controller is for the COM ports.  I only tapped the 2 LAN points which use one tap and the main clock.  I see no need for the onboard USB personally.

 

 

Bill of Materials

 

- tX-USBultra (12V), 50ohm MC: 1200USD retail

- tX-USBexp: 350USD retail

- 3 points sCLK-EX enabling cost : USD150 (USD50/a point), 1 point for tX-USBexp, 2 points for the motherboard. The clock points on sCLK-EX are enabled and programmed.

- 3 points hard wired connection (sCLK-EX <-> tX-USBexp & motherboard) : USD150 (USD50/a point).

- 1 point SMB connection (sCLK-EX <-> tX-USBultra internal board) : USD70

- SATA Filter II : USD65 x2 = USD130

 

You'll note I bought 2 SATA II filters.  This was a mistake in communication.  I now have an extra if anyone would like to buy it.

 

The cost of this work is nearly identical to my Hynes SR7.  This makes me curious as to which will have the biggest impact to SQ.

 

Here's my spaghetti.  Pretty much everything will be contained inside the PC case with only SMB and power cables connecting the tX-USBultra.

 

 

A simple schematic, not of my specific mobo.

 

 

The external DC power bracket

 

 

The sCLK-EX power selection

 

Great post and very helpful, thanks for sharing your learning.

[mozes]

1 hour ago, Johnseye said:

 

I've been thinking about this.  How does ferrite "kill the sound"?  Is it then only removing EMI/RF which we previously thought of as part of the sound and something we've become accustomed with digital music?  It can not suppress, or cause a negative result before the analog conversion because it can't affect the data, only the noise on the line.  Putting it on the interconnects after conversion could have an impact if the ferrite somehow absorbs certain frequencies of the music source, but I haven't read of that occurring. It is possible though and more than possible I haven't read about it.

 

I have read of concern with ferrite becoming magnetized.  If this happens the sound can "harden", but that would assume the softening as a result of the ferrite was a positive, which I think it is.  Then you can either demagnetize the ferrite or replace it.

 

Since I'm rebuilding my server tonight I've decided to remove all the ferrite so I can hear what the new build is like without it.  Then I will add it component by component.  I will leave it off the interconnects for a period of time so I'll be able to hear the difference with and without ferrite on analog cables.

Just to share my experience with ferrites. I added 6 to my BJC Cat6a ethernet cable and the improvements with Tidal are noticeable. Lower noise floor with less high frequency harshness. I am using Wurt 7.5mm ferrites. 

[mozes]

2 hours ago, Boomboy said:

Any chance you could share a pic ? Wondering where you put them .. Like close to plug end or doesnt matter .. ive never heard of them so just curious as i might purchase .. thnx 

Here you get 

[mozes]

Just now, Speed Racer said:

 

That's just silly.....

Yes looks silly but sounds good

[mozes]

1 minute ago, Boomboy said:

Thnx mozes .. last silly question . My cat 7 cable is 6.5 mm so should i get 6.5 mm ferrites ? Or a bit bigger to allow for any cable pinching ?

6.5mm should be fine, a tight fit is better so at least they don't move along the cable. I am no expert with ferrites though, just based on what my ears tell me. I tried adding the ferrites one by one  and I like their effect.

[mozes]

5 minutes ago, Speed Racer said:

A tight fit doesn’t matter. You would be much better off getting a ferrite core that would allow multiple passes of the wire. Three passes would be the same as nine ferrite cores with 1 pass. 

Great you just gave me an idea of what to do with the larger ferrites collecting dust in my box

 

[mozes]

56 minutes ago, austinpop said:

On the one hand, one could say the sPS-500 sounded wonderful, for an SMPS.

Thanks for the great effort and write up!

which power cord did you use to power the sPS-500?

[mozes]

Switching PSUs respond very well with power cords. Dave is a good example.

[mozes]

12 minutes ago, JJ Braham said:

From what I've read, the main difference between them is that the sPS-500 scales accordingly with a better power cable, while that does not seem to be the case for the LPS-1...

Not the power cable. But if you use a LPS to energize the LPS-1, it makes a difference. Also the grounding of the negative DC output makes a noticeable impact with switching PSUs

[mozes]

10 minutes ago, seeteeyou said:

 

Up Squared Board with Celeron N3350 looks quite interesting

 

http://www.up-board.org/upsquared/

 

$145 for 2GB of RAM and $169 for 4GB of RAM respectively

 

https://up-shop.org/up-boards/92-up-squared-celeron-duo-core-2gb-memory32gb-emmc.html

https://up-shop.org/up-boards/94-up-squared-celeron-duo-core-4gb-memory32gb-emmc.html

 

I could count 2 clocks on one side and 1 clock on the other

 

 

We could actually install two pieces of SOtM tX-USBexp thanks to one M.2 slot and one Mini PCIe slot, of course we'll need an adapter or a riser of some sort

 

http://www.hwtools.net/Adapter/PE4C V3.0.html

http://www.hwtools.net/Adapter/PE4C V4.1.html

 

That's pretty much the only reasonably priced option if we're going after something as small as 85.6 mm × 90 mm for the sake of very short clock cables, it's just somewhat tricky to figure out how to get both SOtM tX-USBexp cards positioned properly because of the constraints on space.

 

The specs claimed 5V @ 4A but we'll have to measure the actual power consumption in order to find out if LPS-1 were any good, of course some of us might consider sPS-500 / Paul Hynes / Vinnie Rossi MINI PURE-DC-4EVR etc. so that might not be such a big deal

 

http://www.up-board.org/upsquared/specifications-up2/

Thanks a lot for the links and the detailed reply. 

[mozes]

10 minutes ago, d_elm said:

Perhaps an eye pattern of tx-USBultra USB in and out might show something.

 

I wonder if those using both sMS-200ultra and tx-USBultra could report the power supplies being used and the voltages. 

I will give a more controlled evidence on the impact of clocking.

I have 2 tX-USBultras in series and I was feeling that this is an overkill. I removed one for a period of 3-4 weeks, I thought the step down was marginal then I put the second tX back in the chain and I couldn’t believe how much I was missing. I simply can’t go back to one tX anymore.

There is something going on there with extra clocking for sure as everything is the same. Both tXs are powered by LPS-1s and both LPS-1s are energized by the same LPS.

[mozes]

52 minutes ago, d_elm said:

@mozes, what is the temperature of the LPS-1s ?  I wonder if they are running at close to the maximum 1.1A.

They are hot, but didn’t measure

[mozes]

12 minutes ago, austinpop said:

 

Here you go.  

 

Thanks I have a similar one from my RC hobby  

[mozes]

2 minutes ago, ElviaCaprice said:

I wouldn't disagree with this other than if your not going to do the sCLK-EX modification at the point of streaming origination (server), then your next best choice would be along it's path, thus a USB decrapifier, as you put it.

If I had a time machine and can go back in time, I would have just bought a sCLK-EX board and utilized the 4 outputs inside my server rather than getting the tX-USBultra to benefit from a single clock output only!

 

[mozes]

4 hours ago, afrancois said:

I didn't open any SOtM gear. My sMS-200 Ultra and sPS-500 are resting on the 3M paper, as are all 4 LPS-1's. The LPS-1's also have the 3M glued on top. Every LPS-1 has a heat sink on top.

The back of the AQVOX has 3M paper clued on the outside, this is also the case for my pre-amp, power amp and MC3+ USB. The pre-amp, power amp and MC3+ USB also have 3M on the inside of the cover.

The ISO Regen is covered on both sides with 3M. Close to the spaghetti wiring there’s a 3M.

In short I’ve put 3M where I could put it, except on the inside of the SOtM gear.

 

Included are some pictures to give you an idea of my garage setup. Pictures however are quite dark.

Your setup is awesome!! I love how neat and tidy it is, unlike mine, all over the place  

Can you pls share a link of where did you get these LPS-1 heat sinks?

[mozes]

1 hour ago, afrancois said:

I know some people have some reservations about beryllium tweeters, but I can't complain

During Taves 2018, I listened to a  very high end system driving Focal Sopra 3. The least I can say is thag I was impressed. The clarity in the upper frequencies is mesmerizing and not harsh at all. You just need to make sure you have the right amp and room for these French beauties!

[mozes]

20 hours ago, afrancois said:

https://www.audiophonics.fr/en/kits-modules-diy-radiateurs/heat-sink-aluminium-black-100x50x40mm-p-9260.html

 

For every LPS-1 I use two of these heat sinks.

I am planning to build something similar to your garage setup, but it will be somewhere in my house. How do you connect your garage system to your listening room? 

[mozes]

1 hour ago, afrancois said:

My garage is adjacent to my living room/listening room. The speaker cable for my main system goes through the wall, all the rest is in the garage. I use a Logitech remote control with radio frequency to operate the pre-amp. The pre-amp automatically triggers the power amplifier. The Cyrus system in the living room is no longer used. Only the pre-amp and headphone amplifier below are used for headphone listening.

Lucky you! great way to utilize the space. Thanks for sharing the details of your setup.

[mozes]

5 hours ago, Cornan said:

How much is a SOtM sCLX-EX mod nowdays when the demand is high?

Depends on what you want to do, the most expensive is to get the sCLK-EX board itself. The board has to sit in an enclosure. It can be inside a tXUSBultra, SMS-200 ultra or inside your own server. I suggest you send an email to May from SOTM. She is very helpful and will give you all the info you need.