A novel way to massively improve the SQ of computer audio streaming

[afrancois]

17 hours ago, austinpop said:

PSU Update

Of late, I've had an embarrassment of riches when it comes to PSUs, so it has been educational to compare and contrast them in my system. The 2 latest ones I've had in-house have been the SOtM sPS-500 with a Ghent DC31 starquad cable, kindly loaned to me by @atxkyle, as well as an Uptone JS-2, with the supplied 1.5m Belden cable, which is also a loaner from @Superdad.

 

As shouldn't be particularly surprising, PSU impact varies by component. In my system, I tested 2 locations - the SOtM-modded switch, and the tX-USBultra. More recently, I have a new location to test - the DAC - as I now have in-house a loaner Mytek Brooklyn DAC+. I'll talk about the PSUs in the context of each of these locations.

 

tX-USBultra

This has been the main location I've evaluated PSUs, so I'll start here. Here is my ranking of the PSUs powering the tX-USBultra at 7V.

1. SR-4 with DC3FSXLR silver cable
2. JS-2 with stock Belden (starquad?) cable
3. Tie between LPS-1.2 and sPS-500
   • LPS 1.2 with silver cable - more holographic image, but brighter
   • sPS-500 with Ghent DC31 - slightly smaller image, but smoother tone
4. LPS-1

Also note - the differences between 1, 2, and 3 were quite small. It took careful listening to tease out these preferences.

 

SOtM-modded switch

At this location, the difference between PSUs was much smaller. Again, with all PSUs set at 7V:

1. Tie between SR-4, LPS-1.2, and sPS-500
2. LPS-1

I didn't try the JS-2 at this location.

 

Mytek Brooklyn DAC+

I'll be writing more about my experience with this DAC in the coming weeks. For the moment, I want to focus on it only in the context of PSUs. While the LPS-1.2 lacked the minimum current needed to drive this DAC, I was able to use the other PSUs. Here is my ranking, with all PSUs set to 12V.

1. JS-2
2. SR-4
3. sPS-500

While the SR-4 had really shone on the tX-USBultra, on the Brooklyn DAC+, it was the JS-2 that pulled ahead, and by quite a margin. Compared to the JS-2, the SR-4 (and the sPS-500) seemed to lack dynamism, and sounded strained, and unexciting. What is important to note is that these PSUs did work with the DAC+.

 

This result isn't particularly surprising, since the DAC+ (or any DAC really) has an analog output stage, which really benefits from a PSU with vast reserves of current. The JS-2, with its beefier current capacity, was clearly better at delivering current peaks that the other, smaller, supplies couldn't.

 

Final Thoughts

1. The JS-2 PSU doesn't get a lot of attention these days, but I was really impressed by its performance.
2. While the much-vaunted SR-7 may rise above all of these PSUs, there is a caveat to consider. Not all SR-7s are created equal. SR-7 modules are selectable from 3 sizes - S (25W), HD (80W), and EHD (125W). When it comes to powering a DAC like the DAC+, while an S module may technically work, it may take an HD or EHD module to really make it shine. Those of you with SR-7s may want to keep that in mind.

Finally, my experience reminds us that while low output impedance and low ripple noise are valuable qualities in a DC PSU, an equally important attribute is current capacity, which means that  large and heavy transformer cores have their place. While this is perhaps no surprise with analog stages in a DAC/preamp, it was interesting in the context of digital components like the Zenith SE.

 

(PSU) Size matters!

I'm assuming that the LPS-1.2 was powered by the SMPS that came with it? Probably the correct way to compare it to the other power supplies, standard as it came from the manufacturer. However, the LPS-1.2 will never get the full credit it deserves until it's powered by another "good" LPS. This is the only way to make it really shine. The SMPS does perhaps not affect the output quality of the LPS-1.2, but it surely does for the components that are not isolated. In my case my DAC and power amp.

[afrancois]

29 minutes ago, austinpop said:

 

Actually, I experimented with both the shunted SMPS as well as the second rail of the JS-2 to energize the LPS-1.2. If there is a difference between these two configurations, it is very small in my system. Obviously, this is system-dependent. I suspect the combination of a dedicated circuit, the AC regenerator (P5), and the filtering in the P5 and the Dectet strip I use, make me fairly immune to leakage loops and SMPS backwash. This is why ground shunts and JSGTs have had a very minor effect, if any.

 

I've had the LPS-1s (and now 1.2s) over many iterations of my system, from before I got my AC optimizations in place. I've personally experienced this: if you place the LPS-1(.2) at a location in your system where a leakage loop exists, the improvement due to the LPS-1(.2) can be startling. If not, it will (just) behave like a great quality PSU.

 

In my current system, even with the JS-2 energizing the LPS-1.2, it didn't change the ranking order in my post. It's not like energizing the LPS-1.2 with a JS-2 caused it to leapfrog in SQ. If I get some time, I might go back and compare just these 2 cases more carefully.

 

Ideally, I'd prefer to do this comparison with a low-priced LPS, rather than an expensive JS-2. If you're going to spend that much on an energizing supply, you're far better off just buying an SR-4 or an sPS-500. Sadly, I don't have any low-priced 36W or higher LPSes in house. That might be an interesting sub-topic: cheapest LPSes that improve the stock SMPS supply for the LPS-1.2.

 

At the moment I don't have the luxury of a PS Audio Power Plant, but the idea of a separate AC is very tempting. In the meantime, I'm trying to eliminate a maximum of SMPS's that are in front of my audio chain. I guess that separate AC and power regeneration are more the exception that the rule, so a further investigation into a not too costly LPS replacement for the stock SMPS of the LPS-1.2 would be quite interesting for a lot of LPS-1 and LPS-1.2 buyers. At this moment I'm using the following LPS to power the Uptone LPS-1's:

https://www.audiophonics.fr/en/hi-fi-power-supply/lpsu200-hifi-linear-supply-high-fidelity-12v-5v-635a-200w-nas-freebox-squeezebox-p-11501.html and https://www.audiophonics.fr/en/hi-fi-power-supply/audiophonics-pshp-linear-regulated-power-supply-12v-4a-60va-p-11811.html

 

 

 

[afrancois]

3 hours ago, nbpf said:

Thanks for providing the details about the power supply and, of course, for your original contribution!

 

I would be very interested in learning more about the potential advantages of using power regenerators like the PS Audio P5 as a means for improving poor AC power supplies.

 

This use case does not get very much discussed and the common wisdom seems to be that the first step towards a clean power supply should be laying down one or two dedicated AC lines.

 

Unfortunately, this is not always easy to achieve: I am currently renting an old and rather large flat with very old (and likely poor) wiring. Laying down a new dedicated AC line would be a mess in my case.

 

I have been wandering whether there are established means for assessing the quality of a power supply and whether a P5 or a P10 would be a meaningful  way of achieving a high quality power supply without breaking the bank.  

I don't own a P5 or P10, but as far as I've read you will not always benefit from a re generator. Much depends on the quality of the AC that enters your home. While a PS Audio power plant seems something very interesting, I would never buy it without testing it. Even while many people report positive results.

 

 

[afrancois]

9 minutes ago, seeteeyou said:

Just found more details about that impressive mod for Oppo UDP-205 below

 

http://www.cinetson.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=39919&start=45

 

25MHz TCXO here

 

http://www.foxonline.com/pdfs/fox924.pdf

https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/fox-electronics/FOX924B-25.000/631-1074-1-ND/1024779

 

27MHz OCXO here

 

http://www.sbtron.co.kr/english/product/product_ocxo.html

http://www.sbtron.co.kr/korean/product/pdfs/ocxo_sboc_25_sine.pdf

 

The clocks cables that were going between boths PCBs didn't seem to be all that special, and then the clocks themselves could be replaced by even better ones. Of course we should also power both clocks directly with LT3045 or LPS-1.2 etc.

I power a Pulsar clock with an LPS-1 (LPS-1.2 in the near future), however there's a Pulsar Power in between. I would advice against powering the clock directly from a LPS-1. Especially when the DC cable coming out of the LPS-1 is longer than 10 cm,. The bypass noise capacitor(s) should be very close to the clock!

[afrancois]

5 minutes ago, Solstice380 said:

 

An AC regenerator will ALWAYS improve the power delivery to your components.   Delivery includes lower impedance as well as clean.  

I know, I've seen the Youtube post of Paul McGowan, but given the cost of a P5 or P10, a home audition is necessary. I'm not convinced that it will always be better. It can system dependent as well.

 

[afrancois]

1 hour ago, BigGuy said:

Googling on "Measuring Power Line Noise", gave the following resources...

 

https://www.google.com/search?q=measuring+noise+on+ac+line&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b-1

 

The thread does suggest a couple of measuring device options.

 

Noting earlier posts, I am using a vintage PS Audio P300 for regenerating power for front end devices and preamp and have been happy with results.  I also have 2 in-phase home runs for powering the system.

 

Re "austinpops" comment about the P5, I have a friend who would concur that his system sounds best directly connected to a home run with everything else connected to the P5.  Despite the fact that PS Audio claims that their regenerators do not restrict power, we have observed that amps sound best when not on regenerator.

You surely can measure the AC line quality with an oscilloscope and a spectrum analyzer. With a scope, you can use on channel 1 a high voltage probe and on channel 2 a current probe. Ideally, the current should follow the voltage. This means that according to Ohm's law you always have the maximum power. However, when there's a phase difference (for example 90°)  between current and voltage, voltage lags current or current lags voltage, you could end up in an extreme situation where the power equals zero because one of the two parameters, current or voltage is at zero. Any phase shift will result in a power drop (or raise where it's unwanted). Most of the time, of course, this is handled by the capacitors in our power supplies. Perhaps a more common and more difficult to cure problem, is the presence of unwanted harmonics on the AC. In an ideal world, a spectrum analysis of a 60Hz AC signal would give a single peak at 60Hz. What you will see in reality, is a number (or vast number) of even or uneven harmonics at frequencies above (or perhaps even below) the ideal 60Hz. It is a question of how much energy there is in these non-primary harmonics. This determines the noise level of your power grid. SMSP's are known for injecting DC on the AC power line and thus causing non-sinusoidal and harmonic currents.  Just as with sound, noise on power lines travels along superimposed on the ideal (intended) frequency. 

You can also test the voltage difference between ground and neutral. Those are only a small number of parameters I'm aware of. I'm sure there are lots of other parameters! I'm sure there are a number of people on this forum that are more knowledgeable than me on this subject  :-) 

[afrancois]

1 hour ago, Confused said:

I could do more with respect to RF/EMI elimination, in fact I do have some future plans in that area.  So yes, I agree this would help.  The thing is, it does not really explain what I have been experiencing with the sMS-200Ultra.  The first point is that with high quality recordings the HF appears to be pretty much pristine.  OK, maybe with a few other tweaks, maybe including RF/EMI elimination, the HF could be elevated to new highs (accidental pun), with the harsher recordings improving as well.  Then consider that I can change just one thing in my 'front end', that is swap the mR for the sMS-200Ultra, and this issue becomes apparent.  The rest, tX-USBultra, MC3+USB, REF10, my mains power and everything else, all remain the same.  I have even tried switching the sMS-200Ultra to battery power, which appears to make little difference to this issue.  It also occurs to me that the sMS-200Ultra should be better than the mR at eliminating noise issues.

 

My theory is that the sMS-200Ultra has done enough to clean up the presentation of virtually everything versus the mR.  This leads to the situation that remaining HF harshness that is simply inherent in the recording becomes disproportionately noticeable.  If I knew a bit more about psychoacoustics I could probably give my brain a good talking to! 

I've had a similar issue. I already had an sMS -200 Ultra, but when I switched from an analog connection between my pre- and power amplifier to a digital connection (Lyngdorf) I also had a sudden and consequent brightness. Compared to the analog connection, I had more detail, but it did sound a bit harsh. It turned out to be that the 110Ohm digital cable I was using was not up to par. So I got a silver cable instead. Many people say that silver cables sound bright, but in my specific case, it did the opposite. After that, it seemed there was still much to gain by eliminating (still busy doing so) SMPS's in front the audio chain. I also used to blame many recordings because they sounded not right, but it turned out to be something in my system. For me, if you're having a general problem, like in your case too much brightness, there must be a weak link somewhere. I'm sure you will find it. I think that the sMS-200Ultra is so revealing that it forces you to tackle other issues in the system.

[afrancois]

34 minutes ago, Johnseye said:

 

Even if humans can't hear 20kHz in a tone test, which is how that determination was made, what if the brain still registers the presence of that sound at some level.  Then when sounds with that frequency are added or removed from a source our brains are able to perceive a change in the overall sound of the source.  Regardless of whether we can audibly hear the tone we may recognize its presence.  It is the impact of its absence or presence, not the audibility of the frequency itself that creates the change in sound.

I don't have any experiences with this with high frequencies, but I can tell that when you add a subwoofer to your system the whole sound palette changes and not only the lows. Midrange is fuller, more lifelike and even the tweeter seems to behave somehow different.

Good base (deep and accurate base) seems to be the foundations for a complete musical experience.

So I don’t reject the idea that the ultrasonic frequencies can have an effect on how we perceive music.

It is no coincidence that a good tweeter performs very well far beyond 20kHz.

[afrancois]

6 minutes ago, Confused said:

I was wondering if the presence of the ultrasonics in the air can somehow mess up the HF that is within the audible range.  I have no idea if this is even a sensible suggestion, just a thought I had.

 

When you know that higher frequencies travel along with other (lower) frequencies superimposed than you can understand that the highest frequency we hear is somewhat blurred by these ultrasonic parasites. Some musical instruments produce harmonics far beyond what we can hear. We know that the harmonics of an instrument determine its character. Who says that removing some of the ultrasonic harmonics doesn't change the way we perceive that particular instrument?

[afrancois]

24 minutes ago, Confused said:

I was wondering if the presence of the ultrasonics in the air can somehow mess up the HF that is within the audible range.  I have no idea if this is even a sensible suggestion, just a thought I had.

A very interesting paper about ultrasonic harmonics. A must read!

 

https://www.cco.caltech.edu/~boyk/spectra/spectra.htm

[afrancois]

30 minutes ago, Johnseye said:

 

The power contributes to phase noise, does it not?

I clearly hear the difference when I power the Pulsar clock in my DAC separately with a LPS--1

[afrancois]

1 hour ago, Johnseye said:

 

 

And so it isn't just the phase noise of the clock we should be concerned with, although that is a contributing factor.  Power, length of runs, EMI/RF if not more, contribute.

 

Just making this clear so we all don't get hung up on low clock phase noise.  Clock manufacturers will also influence their numbers by conducting their phase noise tests in an environment that may be different from that which the clock is used.  They may use specifically designed power supplies or use Faraday cages when determining these numbers.

 

Only by testing phase noise in an identical environment in which it's used will result in an accurate measurement.

That's right, the Pulsar clock in my DAC is in close proximity to an EMI/RFI emitting processor used for RoomPerfect. This processor now has a complete cage around it consisting of mu-metal and 3M EMI sheets. Airbourne EMI/RFI has a profound effect on a clock! Super clean power is essential for the performance of a clock. It's no coincidence that a big part of the work that went into building the Mutec REF10 was the linear power supply. 

[afrancois]

19 hours ago, Johnseye said:

 

That's pretty much everything and limits the sPS-500 to a device that is just good enough to power an LPS, if even that.  It only re-affirms the importance of an LPS.  I don't think the sPS is a bad supply by any means, I'm just not sure where I'll use it right now.

 

It may also demonstrate the benefit of properly pairing a PSU with a device.  This was one of the factors when I made my decision to buy the REF 10.

I've made this decision already some months ago. I kept to sPS-500 to power two other LPS-1's. 

[afrancois]

I've given all my DC cables leaving my LPS-1.2's a JSSG 360 treatment. It gives really good results and it also nice looking.

The outer crimp sleeve is transparent. I've ordered all I need to do the same for my power cables, without thinking :-)

Could a JSSG 360 treatment on power cables yield some positive results? My power cables already have a copper shield that's connected to ground on one side (at the power outlet)

[afrancois]

8 minutes ago, austinpop said:

 

Welcome to the club, Alex. I'm glad you've now heard "what's possible."

Just ordered a WS-C2960-8TC-L on usedcisco.de.

I want to know if it's better than my AQVOX :-)

[afrancois]

23 hours ago, Confused said:

No, this was not discussed.  However, May did say that they are looking to get the Neo installation done by "local partners".  So the update may not require the trip to Korea and back.

 

For me, the Neo version is a move of SOtM to please more customers. Which as a company is probably a good move, however, It's a pity that the original version would be discontinued.

In my chain which is completely digital, including the amps and with speakers with beryllium tweeters, I had to make a considerable effort to get rid of the tad brightness I experienced. However, I never considered it was the sMS-200 Ultra at fault. I did some extreme EMI/RFI shielding, got rid of as much as possible SMPS's in the vicinity of the audio chain and did some small power filtering. I can still hear Shirley Bassey screaming through my speakers, in my mind, but not anymore today through my system.

[afrancois]

1 hour ago, str-1 said:

Is there anything among the cable tweaks mentioned on this thread that would be usable with Uptone Audio’s USPCB?

I was about to post how I shielded the USPCB and the ISO Regen, but I was quite busy with other things...

Anyhow here's what I've done. I took a piece of PVC tube in which the USPCB would fit and wrapped around it a sheet of Mu-metal. I hold the Mu-metal around the PVC with some ISO tape and then I shrink around it, a heat-shrink tube.

My ISO Regen already had 3M paper on both sides, but I also wrapped a sheet of Mu-metal around it. I didn't really expect any difference. I'm just obsessed by shielding. But it did make a difference!

The biggest surprise came when I did some Mu-metal treatment around my BNC cables coming out of the REF10. I have standard Oyaide DB-510 cables that I already gave a JSSG360 treatment. What surprised me most is, that it was the BNC cable going into the sMS-200 ultra that made the biggest difference. I even went further and I'm giving all my JSSG360 DC cables a Mu-metal treatment. I've even made PVC tubes that go around most of the DC and BNC plugs.

All I can say is that my system never sounded like it does now. Extreme shielding does payoff.

Almost forgot to mention, that I even put a sheet of 3M paper on top of the REF10 and all of my LPS-1.2.

3M was already underneath the REF10 and all LPS-1.2. 

[afrancois]

Some pictures.

 

 

[afrancois]

I'm sure many of you will say that my system is over the top (and I agree), fortunately, it's in the garage and it does work great.

The living room is very clean with only the Sopra's and the subwoofers.

 

 

[afrancois]

42 minutes ago, RickyV said:

Can you still bend the mu metal cables? And don’t you get harsher high tones?

 

 

rick

You can only slightly bend the cables I've made. They are all custom size and bend as needed while applying the mu-metal and heat-sink tubing. Not flexible at all and a bit difficult to make. Don't get any harsher tones. Violin has never sounded as realistic, as is the piano.

[afrancois]

4 minutes ago, look&listen said:

Happy to know your results with 'Extreme' shielding. Theory is attractive, but needed experimental results

I know of mu-metal for long time, but not interested because of problem with losing effectiveness due to even little bending of metal, and high cost too.

How do you see issue of bending degradation?

How much cost to you per cable (averaged with overhead)?

 

Pleased for your SQ level, also jealous 

A sheet of mu-metal 15 cm x 100 cm costs 105 euro. Cost is acceptable for what you get. I guess the price per 50 cm is about 40 euro,  ISO tape and heat-sink tube included. My cables also have JSSG360 before applying the mu-metal.

I lose nothing (I think) while bending because I'm using more windings. More overlap as you will. I think it will be far more effective then mu-metal braid.

 

[afrancois]

38 minutes ago, look&listen said:

How many shielded cables per 15/cm x 50, you estimate?

What is "ISO tape?"

 

So spiral winding, about how many turns? (not sure what is what in pictures)

 

Ha! Multi-stages of shielding, like multi-stages of DC regulation, for extreme results  

 

Also suggest polystyrene tubing instead of PVC. Available in small sizes for cables, plus thinner wall, maybe better fits. Capacitance performance better, but is that right for this application?  Time to test  

1

1 meter of mu-metal with a width of about 8 mm will get you about 13 cm's. 

ISO tape is a simple electrical tape (see image)

Had some PVC tubes laying around, so I used that...

I hope some other CA members will try to experiment with this. I feel it really helped. It will never be as popular as JSSG360 because it's more difficult to implement. And the resulted cables are not pretty. For me, it's the result that counts. Make sure that the mu-metal doesn't tough the connectors!

[afrancois]

35 minutes ago, look&listen said:

Now interested in trying this, but must wait for some DIY time & extra $$. maybe after leaves raked up 

 

Thx! for sharing work & answers to many questions.

Last question  

How you cutoff 8mm strips from mu-metal sheets?

By hand with a pair of metal sissors. See picture.

[afrancois]

6 hours ago, austinpop said:

Network tuning update

 

A few weeks ago, I wrote my impressions of the SOtM switch. In that review, I again referred to a recurring theme in my setup, where I said:

 

 

and

 

 

Well, I've been scratching my head at this to understand the source of this harshness. Was this an inherent characteristic of the Zenith SE's ethernet interface, or could there be more going on? After auditing my entire network chain, I realized the answer was under my very nose. And it's a bit embarrassing. To understand, here's a picture of my network topology:

 

 

And for completeness, here's the audio topology:

 

You'll notice that everything up the chain to the cable modem is on an LPS, but what the picture does not show is the AC power source. This is the embarrassing bit. For historical reasons I won't go into, my network closet (top picture) is powered by an APC 350VA UPS. In this latest audit of my system, it finally registered on me (duh!) that this UPS must be generating very noisy AC to the HDPlex LPS. Following @JohnSwenson's advice in the isolation transformer thread, I got myself an unfiltered Tripplite power strip (this one can be folded into convenient shapes).

 

Wow - much improved! I can't believe the crud the UPS was putting into the network gear made it across the entire topology. I've only done an evening's worth of listening, but at this point, the gap between network playback and local playback on the SE has shrunk. Not completely disappeared, but definitely smaller.

 

Encouraged by this, I have a plan to continue cleanup of my network. Referring back to my network topology, here's the plan:

1. I still have SMPSes in my network closet for things like the NAS, assorted adapters (like my Directv broadband adapter, a broadband alarm adapter, etc). I plan to replace all these SMPSes with an HDPlex 200W LPS. This still does not eliminate SMPSes for the ASUS WAP and a couple more switches. These are in other parts of the house but wire back to the network closet. I will address these with isolation. See next 2 points.
2. I plan to replace my DGS2205 switch with a JS approved Netgear GS108, powered by an existing HDPlex rail, and shunted with a JSGT.
3. The Archer router will only have a direct connection from my listening room on one port, and the Netgear GS108 switch on another.
4. All other equipment: NAS, adapters, other switches, the ASUS, will all connect to the GS108. Hopefully, this will block the bulk of both low-impedance SMPS noise (via the port magnetics) and the high-impedance noise, via the JSGT, from my audio topology. Don't forget, my TLS switch is also ground shunted, but I don't know if the underlying Dlink switch, on which it is modded, has isolating port magnetics.

Once I've done all that, I'll do another round of listening tests, and report back.

Good you came to the same conclusion regarding SMPS'es I wrote about many posts ago.

 

[afrancois]

1 hour ago, Em2016 said:

 

Well this is the point I made earlier - it's not possible he's inspected/measured every linear PSU on the planet. But I assume he's commenting based on a variety of linear PSU's that he has inspected or measured.

 

As he also says, some people actually prefer a slightly brighter sound with different PSU's, thinking they are hearing more 'detail' - when in reality it's more RF getting through causing higher IM distortion, resulting in the brighter sound, mistaken for more 'detail'.

 

This is the tricky thing when our own preferences vary so much. But he does have access to measurement gear that we don't...

Exactly what I have experienced. My system sounded much darker when I had replaced most SMPSes with LPS. It also revealed other shortcomings in my system.