Official RMAF 2016 Thread

[asdf1000]

I should follow up and let you know that the 300 was powering some new Zu speakers that were very large and they were probably the best I've heard Zu sound. The smaller systems at RMAF and previous shows just weren't my cup of tea. But the large ones and the Peachtree unit were very enjoyable.

Oh yeh, I just checked out Peachtree's facebook page and seen the Zu's. Biggest Zu's I've ever seen!

 

Sent from my Blackberry DTEK50 using Tapatalk

[crenca]

I should follow up and let you know that the 300 was powering some new Zu speakers that were very large and they were probably the best I've heard Zu sound. The smaller systems at RMAF and previous shows just weren't my cup of tea. But the large ones and the Peachtree unit were very enjoyable.

 

This was my first chance to hear Zu, and honestly I was a bit underwhelmed. However, now that I think about it the sound was pretty good and more "accurate" than what I expected based on reviews/measurements I have read of Zu. Perhaps that giant woofer in the this new model (had to be a 15 inch + borrowed from the PA of a local sports stadium) allowed the regular Zu widebander to do it's thing better.

 

I do admit though the presenter was choosing music that I did not like and at the same time was trying to "sell" the music between each track - I found it annoying. Perhaps under different circumstances I would have walked away with a better impression of the system. Despite the large room and the placement of the speakers (right out in the middle) the system had no problem relying a full sense of scale and power...

[J.Bevier]

No WD,

 

This new model called the M1 100. A 2nd power powerful model, the M1 150, will debut in early December.

Originally shown at CES last January, the importer (Audio Plus Services - the company I work for) just received first run production inventory.

 

Anything I say is going to be attributed to a conflict of interest, but this unit is TRULY, TRULY special. It mated perfectly with the Focal Sopra 2's (Another brand we import/distribute, so discount my words if you must). The irony is, in the final 5 minutes of the show I made one vibration reduction adjustment and heard the system take a rather large step towards fooling the brian into thinking it's listening to live music, then in fact you know you're sitting in a hotel room. It was BY FAR, the finest sound I'd been able to create at a show in my 35-years of being in this business. I was very proud of what we achieved.

 

Finest regard - J.Bevier / APS

[The Computer Audiophile]

No WD,

 

This new model called the M1 100. A 2nd power powerful model, the M1 150, will debut in early December.

Originally shown at CES last January, the importer (Audio Plus Services - the company I work for) just received first run production inventory.

 

Anything I say is going to be attributed to a conflict of interest, but this unit is TRULY, TRULY special. It mated perfectly with the Focal Sopra 2's (Another brand we import/distribute, so discount my words if you must). The irony is, in the final 5 minutes of the show I made one vibration reduction adjustment and heard the system take a rather large step towards fooling the brian into thinking it's listening to live music, then in fact you know you're sitting in a hotel room. It was BY FAR, the finest sound I'd been able to create at a show in my 35-years of being in this business. I was very proud of what we achieved.

 

Finest regard - J.Bevier / APS

Thanks for clarifying the model numbers. If I hadn't heard the system I would have said your enthusiasm is because of your vested interest. Fortunately I spent so much time in the room and I share much enthusiasm for the product.

[J.Bevier]

So far the best sound of the show without a doubt is in the room with Micromega and Focal Sopra 2 speakers. Stayed there for 45 minutes selecting tracks and getting lost in the music.

 

Hi Chris (Just spend 20-mins typing a response and then lost it - guess I earned my Newbee status - hahahah) - thanks for your kind words. No matter how I respond, this is going sound like an advertorial. (I'm the importer/distributor that handles Focal, Micromega, Crystal Cable and IsoAcoustics - the components used to create this HiFi - I make my living selling these brands, so you can expect me to be a positive voice for them. This is the conversation I would have if Chris and I were face to face)

 

I was VERY VERY pleased with the sound of that room. Hotel shows generally don't allow the potential of gear to be heard due to lack of time, poor acoustics, etc. Our team and I spent focused time trying to position the Focal Sopra 2's in an evenly balanced (Tonality, frequency response, dynamic contrast, reflections, image field creation) placement position. We used Crystal Cables (Power and speaker) for their speed and transparency characteristics; cables we've used in the past to great success. Then we spent time isolating the Micromega M1 100, my laptop and my hard drive from room resonances produced by the speakers being driven.

 

99% of the show we used Tidal via Rune as our source coming from my MacBook Pro's USB output. So no 24/96 hi-rez files were used. That combo of Tidal and Rune is AWESOME!!! (And we can take requests and discover new music)

 

We've both hear thousands of HiFi systems in our careers (Think about it - we get a paycheck for listening to hifi systems playing music - we much have been very good in prior lifetimes to deserve such a reward!!!), many of these systems do wonderful audio gymnastics, but VERY VERY VERY few can communicate emotively the passion of the performers playing the music. This system did to my ears and my heart.

 

I wished you were in the hall late on Sunday!!!!!

 

Dave Morrison (Pres. of IsoAcoustics) stopped by the suite to collect his four "Pucks" (Debut in Jan) that separated the M1 100 from the hard shelf below it. Instantly the image field dropped, softened, the dynamic contrast was flattened, the direct emotive capacity of the system was lessened. I was bummed. Once you taste the finest wine, it's hard to go backwards. I ran down to his then locked suite and took a new Aperta 300 center channel speaker stand back to suite 3018 and placed the MM M1 100 under it hoping to pull back some of it's prior performance characteristics. (My laptop was already sitting on an Aperta 100 speaker stand)

 

I was floored - the image filed jumped up about a foot higher than when you heard it, depth increased another 20% or so, dynamics (Especially microdynamics) improved, but most importantly, the emotive nature of the system was significantly better than before. My mouth hung wide open. This was the single finest sounding HiFi system I'd set-up at any show in my 35-years of being in this industry. And I only had five minutes left to have anyone appreciate it!!! I looked for you in the hall, but you were busy on another floor apparently.

 

In once sense, this is illustrative of a basic fundamental; system set-up either makes or breaks a HiFi. Yes, you need world class components (Speakers, electronics, cabling, racks to reduce room borne vibration from entering your gear, room acoustics, AC service, etc) but you need to speak careful time and consideration on where and how to place speakers, how to isolate the gear, what cabling to link components together, etc. Our team worked hard to create the best sound we knew how, and I am very proud of what we achieved. An under $20K system that could transport the listener into the musical experience.

 

Enough ruminating - sorry for the seeming advertorial. Perhaps others whom heard the system will report, "Eh - yea, it was OK" as a balance to my feelings! All's good.

 

Thanks again for your kind words - you were very generous with your time which I know is precious at shows. Going to get a demo unit and send it to my house to see if I can realize the same system sound in my living room.

[crenca]

Hi Chris (Just spend 20-mins typing a response and then lost it - guess I earned my Newbee status - hahahah) - thanks for your kind words. No matter how I respond, this is going sound like an advertorial. (I'm the importer/distributor that handles Focal, Micromega, Crystal Cable and IsoAcoustics - the components used to create this HiFi - I make my living selling these brands, so you can expect me to be a positive voice for them. This is the conversation I would have if Chris and I were face to face)....

 

I wish I had made it too your room. What will (or does - is it being sold yet?) the m100 retail for?

[orgel]

I wish I had made it too your room. What will (or does - is it being sold yet?) the m100 retail for?

 

Pretty sure it's US$3999. Crazy good value if I've got that right.

 

--David

[J.Bevier]

I wish I had made it too your room. What will (or does - is it being sold yet?) the m100 retail for?

 

The basic Micromega M1 100 retails for $3995.00.

Here'a link to the web page that will fill in the details —* M-One range - Micromega - Le son de France

 

As I said, the "Basic" M1 100, since the unit is offered with a variety of options:

Silver or black casing - $3995

An enamel casing (Think La Creuset) adds $1,000 to the cost. (We showed an orange enamel version that matched teh Focal Sopra 2 cabinet color)

In December Micromega will offer active room tuning software already built into the unit in two versions: EQ1) analysis and correction of all frequencies below 250Hz for $599.00, and EQ2) full 20kHz to 20Hz in both amplitude and impulse response (Phase) correction for $1,000.

 

These last two options effectually allow the owner to create a neutral room environment without resorting to acoustic panels, diffusers, etc.

 

Yes - I work for the importer/distributor, so I'm a biased voice. But I think this all-in-one is creative genius and sounds fantastic.

 

My finest regard - J.Bevier | APS |

[The Computer Audiophile]

The basic Micromega M1 100 retails for $3995.00.

Here'a link to the web page that will fill in the details —* M-One range - Micromega - Le son de France

 

As I said, the "Basic" M1 100, since the unit is offered with a variety of options:

Silver or black casing - $3995

An enamel casing (Think La Creuset) adds $1,000 to the cost. (We showed an orange enamel version that matched teh Focal Sopra 2 cabinet color)

In December Micromega will offer active room tuning software already built into the unit in two versions: EQ1) analysis and correction of all frequencies below 250Hz for $599.00, and EQ2) full 20kHz to 20Hz in both amplitude and impulse response (Phase) correction for $1,000.

 

These last two options effectually allow the owner to create a neutral room environment without resorting to acoustic panels, diffusers, etc.

 

Yes - I work for the importer/distributor, so I'm a biased voice. But I think this all-in-one is creative genius and sounds fantastic.

 

My finest regard - J.Bevier | APS |

As I mentioned at the show, I really want to get one with all the EQ bells and whistles. I think members of the CA Community tend to embrace DSP more than "traditional" folks :~)

[witchdoctor]

In once sense, this is illustrative of a basic fundamental; system set-up either makes or breaks a HiFi. Yes, you need world class components (Speakers, electronics, cabling, racks to reduce room borne vibration from entering your gear, room acoustics, AC service, etc) but you need to speak careful time and consideration on where and how to place speakers, how to isolate the gear, what cabling to link components together, etc. Our team worked hard to create the best sound we knew how, and I am very proud of what we achieved. An under $20K system that could transport the listener into the musical experience.

 

This is a really good summary of what is needed to create a good system. I have started a thread here on how to budget for best SQ and was wondering if you would post your two cents? I think you nailed that everything contributes and would appreciate your input there. Thanks

 

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f8-general-forum/budget-allocation-best-sq-30129/

[firedog]

As I mentioned at the show, I really want to get one with all the EQ bells and whistles. I think members of the CA Community tend to embrace DSP more than "traditional" folks :~)

 

Would love to see a review of that. Units with DSP correction are sort of neglected in the audiophile press and forums, as apparently too many consider them "heresy" to their audiophile religious beliefs.

[YashN]

Units with DSP correction are sort of neglected in the audiophile press and forums, as apparently too many consider them "heresy" to their audiophile religious beliefs.

 

There are actual, sane and good reasons for that, and nothing heretical nor religious.

 

A DSP processor will impart its own signature (algorithm + noise profile) into a system being one.

[firedog]

There are actual, sane and good reasons for that, and nothing heretical nor religious.

 

A DSP processor will impart its own signature (algorithm + noise profile) into a system being one.

 

Yes, but everything imparts its own sound signature. Yet audiophiles act as if only DSP does that, and everything else is "pure". That's why I refer to it as "religion".

[YashN]

Yet audiophiles act as if only DSP does that, and everything else is "pure". That's why I refer to it as "religion".

 

Not really: there are instances where the DSP is warranted, but it shouldn't be the first thing you reach for...

 

The 'signature' imparted by acoustic, organic room treatment first and foremost is to be preferred.

 

If the source material is PCM (usually already quite processed) and if there are still nagging peaks and troughs in the room response that needs taming, then one can consider DSP.

 

Makes sense?

 

(and I'm not even starting to describe what type of work needs to be done to make the DSP sound good as well re: power supply, potential grounding issues, etc...).

[firedog]

"Sense" has little to do with it; my point is that whatever sounds better/best in your particular situation should be preferred - regardless of technology or methodology.

 

Yet many audiophiles will rule out a particular component or approach just because they "know" it can't sound as good as what they "know" they prefer.

[YashN]

"Sense" has little to do with it;

 

Yet many audiophiles will rule out a particular component or approach just because they "know" it can't sound as good as what they "know" they prefer.

 

It has everything to do with it, especially when someone has tried various solutions and is sharing their experiences, but whatever.

[crenca]

Not really: there are instances where the DSP is warranted, but it shouldn't be the first thing you reach for...

 

The 'signature' imparted by acoustic, organic room treatment first and foremost is to be preferred.

 

If the source material is PCM (usually already quite processed) and if there are still nagging peaks and troughs in the room response that needs taming, then one can consider DSP.

 

Makes sense?

 

(and I'm not even starting to describe what type of work needs to be done to make the DSP sound good as well re: power supply, potential grounding issues, etc...).

 

Can you (or anyone else) hear a "signiture" of a pro/quality level 32/64 bit EQ such as DMG Audio's Equilibrium? I ask because I can't (not that my gear is the best). Of course I resist the temptation to use it improperly - never more than 6db adjustment, the vast majority 3db or under, etc.

[YashN]

Can you (or anyone else) hear a "signiture" of a pro/quality level 32/64 bit EQ such as DMG Audio's Equilibrium? I ask because I can't (not that my gear is the best). Of course I resist the temptation to use it improperly - never more than 6db adjustment, the vast majority 3db or under, etc.

 

I don't know about the DMG specifically but I can detect audible differences between different EQ equipment and software (I mix and master in my own project studio). In my system, my gf and I can hear a lot of digital signatures for various connected equipment.

 

A lot can go wrong apart from the actual DSP algorithm and the device's own internal noise profile, like AC mains pollution, leakage noise, grounding issues, all very audible.

[zackthedog]

I would be interested to know if there are any new windows or web browser based software players that support DSD under $300.

 

Daphile. It's free. Very nice.

[speshal]

Not really: there are instances where the DSP is warranted, but it shouldn't be the first thing you reach for...

 

The 'signature' imparted by acoustic, organic room treatment first and foremost is to be preferred.

 

If the source material is PCM (usually already quite processed) and if there are still nagging peaks and troughs in the room response that needs taming, then one can consider DSP.

 

Makes sense?

 

(and I'm not even starting to describe what type of work needs to be done to make the DSP sound good as well re: power supply, potential grounding issues, etc...).

 

It's an interesting comment that I mostly agree with, but have you tried Dirac Live? It does a little more than just tame nagging peaks and troughs.

 

In fact, it's the one area that I have a slightly different perspective/experience. Personally, I would use "organic" room treatments, subs, and speaker placement to tame the BIG "peaks and troughs" NOT the DSP. In my experience, when you use the DSP to correct huge peaks and troughs, that's where the problems come in. You could be adding/subtracting +10db to certain frequencies and this often leads to problems/clipping.

 

(FYI, most MAJOR issues occur in the bass region and 2 subwoofers are particularly powerful allies in curing these - just play with crossover settings/volume/room placement)

 

Unfortunately, once you correct the MAJOR issues with traditional room treatment, you're still left with tons of SMALLER issues that are too numerous to address conventionally, yet they can add up to be just as audible overall. Thus, I almost ALWAYS recommend using a DSP like Dirac to fine tune the countless smaller issues in every room. The benefits are clearly audible AND measurable without the downsides of stressing a DSP to do too much in one area.

 

Frankly, the problem with DSPs though are usually related to operator error, inexperience, and/or bad measurements. I can easily see someone trying Dirac (or any other DSP) and making things worse if they don't know what they are doing. It's kinda like cooking...even if you follow the recipe/instructions, you still have to learn certain tricks to getting things just right. I had to do my measurements and adjustments no less than 10x just to perfect things.

 

The great thing with Dirac is that it's extremely easy to A/B test on the fly. Once you hear ruler flat freq response and impulse response correction, you will never go back to the "no filter" setting. I could buy a $125k Soulution amp or Kronus Turntable. It still won't make the audible and measurable improvement of proper DSP correction.

 

Thus, my conclusion is slightly different than yours. You're right that you don't want to immediately run to a DSP first to solve all your problems, but no matter what you do conventionally, it's still going to be essential in virtually ANY room. For a computer audiophile already listening to digital processing, it's a no-brainer.

[ctsooner]

Very interesting thread. Personally, I'm not a DSP guy, but I remain open minded. I've heard it a few times in systems costing well into the six figures (at shops) and I hated what I heard. Before I get hit with, it wasn't set up correctly, the DSP was set up and tweeted by the company, but I still heard the 50hz room movement. They all seemed to have rooms that needed a fair amount of help and the DSP tamed the 50hz mode, but it ruined everything. Things also collapsed iRT soundstage and it just didn't sound good at all. In all cases, the dealers were so excited about it and tried to point out all that it did, but they lost all that IT DID. Does that make sense? I was really let down as these units (two of them were from Europe and I believe Mac is using on of them on a rebrand) were just under 10k if I recall correctly. I personally am all about getting a room in good shape with furniture placement, quilts on the walls, properly placed racks and big plants to control reflections and even bass in corners. It's real life for me guys and I have to love how my room looks too. I am selling my Vandersteen Treo's as I want the Quatro's for their bass EQ. It's not DSP, but it adds an extra crossover and has very fine bass control. That can tame most anything I've ever heard in the bass without adding or taking away from the rest of the sound. I'm sure eventually DSP will grow and figure things out, but I'm still not sure that it's ever going to be 100% transparent and when you start spending tons of money on the system, it's incremental changes you are getting, so I'm not sure that DSP is going to sound better for a long time. I may be wrong as this is always a matter of taste anyways. I haven't heard Dirac yet, but will try and look for someplace that has it as I want to know how it sounds based on your claims. Very interesting thread.

 

It's an interesting comment that I mostly agree with, but have you tried Dirac Live? It does a little more than just tame nagging peaks and troughs.

 

In fact, it's the one area that I have a slightly different perspective/experience. Personally, I would use "organic" room treatments, subs, and speaker placement to tame the BIG "peaks and troughs" NOT the DSP. In my experience, when you use the DSP to correct huge peaks and troughs, that's where the problems come in. You could be adding/subtracting +10db to certain frequencies and this often leads to problems/clipping.

 

(FYI, most MAJOR issues occur in the bass region and 2 subwoofers are particularly powerful allies in curing these - just play with crossover settings/volume/room placement)

 

Unfortunately, once you correct the MAJOR issues with traditional room treatment, you're still left with tons of SMALLER issues that are too numerous to address conventionally, yet they can add up to be just as audible overall. Thus, I almost ALWAYS recommend using a DSP like Dirac to fine tune the countless smaller issues in every room. The benefits are clearly audible AND measurable without the downsides of stressing a DSP to do too much in one area.

 

Frankly, the problem with DSPs though are usually related to operator error, inexperience, and/or bad measurements. I can easily see someone trying Dirac (or any other DSP) and making things worse if they don't know what they are doing. It's kinda like cooking...even if you follow the recipe/instructions, you still have to learn certain tricks to getting things just right. I had to do my measurements and adjustments no less than 10x just to perfect things.

 

The great thing with Dirac is that it's extremely easy to A/B test on the fly. Once you hear ruler flat freq response and impulse response correction, you will never go back to the "no filter" setting. I could buy a $125k Soulution amp or Kronus Turntable. It still won't make the audible and measurable improvement of proper DSP correction.

 

Thus, my conclusion is slightly different than yours. You're right that you don't want to immediately run to a DSP first to solve all your problems, but no matter what you do conventionally, it's still going to be essential in virtually ANY room. For a computer audiophile already listening to digital processing, it's a no-brainer.

[YashN]

In fact, it's the one area that I have a slightly different perspective/experience. Personally, I would use "organic" room treatments, subs, and speaker placement to tame the BIG "peaks and troughs" NOT the DSP.

 

Unfortunately, once you correct the MAJOR issues with traditional room treatment, you're still left with tons of SMALLER issues that are too numerous to address conventionally, yet they can add up to be just as audible overall. Thus, I almost ALWAYS recommend using a DSP like Dirac to fine tune the countless smaller issues in every room. The benefits are clearly audible AND measurable without the downsides of stressing a DSP to do too much in one area.

 

There's not much difference from what I said above if you read with attention: opt for acoustic, organic first and if absolutely necessary, then consider DSP.

 

I haven't tried Dirac but read a lot about it and some swear by it: it's just another PCM-based DSP for me.

 

I'd rather have a 'living' room rather than a flat response and use HQ Player's SDM processing instead (because DSD->PCM conversion just for that wouldn't be ideal) or other software I have in my collection that put all VSTs and other software processing libraries to shame as it convincingly mimics the non-linearities of great analogue gear.

 

To clarify: I am equipped to treat anything that happens to ruler flat in very effective ways via DSP if I so choose too but the first work is to do room diagnosis with REW and organic, acoustic room treatment (including proper gear + Sub placement as you mentioned as I built my own Sub stand for that).

[YashN]

Very interesting thread. Personally, I'm not a DSP guy, but I remain open minded. I've heard it a few times in systems costing well into the six figures (at shops) and I hated what I heard. Before I get hit with, it wasn't set up correctly, the DSP was set up and tweeted by the company, but I still heard the 50hz room movement. They all seemed to have rooms that needed a fair amount of help and the DSP tamed the 50hz mode, but it ruined everything. Things also collapsed iRT soundstage and it just didn't sound good at all. In all cases, the dealers were so excited about it and tried to point out all that it did, but they lost all that IT DID. Does that make sense?

 

Makes sense to me...