Auralic Aries & Sonore microRendu listening impressions

[MrUnderhill]

My friend and I are using Jensen PI-2XX transformers with our Vega DACs.

 

Hi Scan,

 

Did you pick these after some listening tests? Being in the UK Jensen appear to be less available than other UK and DE options.

 

Thx

[scan80269]

Hi Scan,

 

Did you pick these after some listening tests? Being in the UK Jensen appear to be less available than other UK and DE options.

 

Thx

 

I've been relying largely on my friend's recommendation for transformers. He has had a Jensen for several years and used it for balanced <> unbalanced signal conversion. We settled on the Jensen PI-2XX after listening to one at my friend's place, and were satisfied enough to not go shopping around. As far as I can tell, Jensen transformers have a reputation for being "clean sounding", though the models are not all the same. I also like them for their ease of use.

 

My friend currently uses a total of three PI-2XX, with one directly after Vega. Mine is placed between Vega and Taurus MkII headphone amp. Our setups have balanced analog signals all the way to the final amplification stage, and my HD800 headphones also run balanced with an aftermarket cable.

 

I have no experience with other transformer brands like Lundahl, so can't comment on how they may compare with Jensen.

[MrUnderhill]

Thx,

 

In abbreviated form I run from my mR >> Focal speakers balanced all the way. I'll do some digging before I vote with my wallet.

 

Thx,

 

M

[scan80269]

Quick heads-up. I just posted to the "Auralic Aries Mini" thread to describe playback interruption trouble I've encountered with my Mini using a 100Mbps Ethernet connection. My testing so far indicates my Mini is not completely happy working with 100Mbps Ethernet. Changing to gigabit or wireless will make the problem symptoms disappear.

 

My Aries Femto has been rock solid playing high-res content (up to 352.8K DXD) with 100Mbps Ethernet, so my Mini exhibits different behavior here. The playback interruptions were observed with both 4.0.0 production firmware and 4.1.beta2 firmware running on my Mini.

@austinpop: If you try 100Mbps Ethernet with your Mini I'd be interested to hear whether you encounter the same issue.

[wanta911]

My EMO is arriving later today.

 

In the meantime I ordered some short ethernet patch cords from Blue Jeans Cable to accomodate the short distance between my newly installed wireless bridge and the Aries. Based on this post from jtwrace that basically has BJC recommending Cat6 over Cat6A for music, I ordered a length of both for giggles. The cables arrived yesterday and I can report that I have now officially joined the lunatic fringe as I can clearly hear a difference in presentation between them. WTF?

 

Has anyone else done this comparison?

[austinpop]

My EMO is arriving later today.

 

In the meantime I ordered some short ethernet patch cords from Blue Jeans Cable to accomodate the short distance between my newly installed wireless bridge and the Aries. Based on this post from jtwrace that basically has BJC recommending Cat6 over Cat6A for music, I ordered a length of both for giggles. The cables arrived yesterday and I can report that I have now officially joined the lunatic fringe as I can clearly hear a difference in presentation between them. WTF?

 

Has anyone else done this comparison?

 

Welcome to the club!

 

Can't say I've compared Cat 6 vs cat 6a. Which do you feel sounds better?

[wanta911]

Welcome to the club!

 

Can't say I've compared Cat 6 vs cat 6a. Which do you feel sounds better?

 

Well here's the thing, I'm not going to make that definitive call just yet. Neither sounds bad.....just different.

 

When the cables arrived I was playing a Ben Harper album (Fight For Your Mind), so I decided to make comparisons playing 2 consecutive tracks from that album (Gold To Me & Burn One Down). It's a well mastered recording with acoustic guitar and good pronounced bass including bongos and other peripheral instruments that come across well in their own space.

 

I did the listening comparison dozens of times until I was very familiar with the differences. None of my descriptions here are meant to be derogatory and are just used to highlight the differences to each other:

 

I would describe the presentation of the Cat6A to be "heavier" than the Cat6, the highs sounded a little more rolled off which highlighted the bass a bit more, the bass also seemed harder than the Cat6. Very "full" sounding, even perhaps a little closed in sounding compared to the Cat6?

 

The Cat 6 in comparison had more air and the bass wasn't quite as pronounced but had a nice warm "pillowy" feel to it. The perception of more air didn't come with any added harshness in the highs.

 

TBH I could live with either but for this particular album I preferred the Cat6, I'm also not ruling out that my preference could differ depending on the source material so I'm going to do some more testing on different recordings in the next few days. I can also imagine that the preference could vary with different setups?

 

Of course this could all change with the arrival of the EMO (it never ends)

 

Oh and for the record, the cable length was 2ft.

[scan80269]

@wanta911, thanks for sharing your SQ impressions for CAT6 and CAT6a.

 

I'm going to predict the effects of EN-70HD isolator will be very audible to you.

 

The following is mostly speculation on my part.

 

Since CAT6a has twice the bandwidth rating as CAT6 as well as lower alien crosstalk, signal integrity (waveform shape, skew, etc.) at the receiving end should theoretically be better with CAT6a. On the other hand, a higher bandwidth cable suggests a lower capacitive component of the differential impedance (due to different dielectic material?), which can make an unshielded cable more susceptible to picking up electromagnetic interference. Bandwidths of 250MHz and 500MHz for CAT6 & CAT6a respectively are overkill for gigabit link speed, and the cable optimizations to achieve these bandwidths may result in compromises for audio use, like BJC has indicated. Imagine a higher level of high frequency noise being carried into the renderer/streamer via the Ethernet cable...

 

I now wonder if BJC CAT5e (also with bonded pairs) is also worth exploring from the SQ perspective relative to CAT6 or CAT6a.

 

I suspect EMO EN-70HD isolator helps by acting as an additional barrier for common mode noise, essentially supplementing the common mode rejection capability of the receiver. Pulse transformers can act as low-pass (band-pass?) filters to reduce unwanted noise. My friend and I heard SQ improvements with EN-70HD while using unshielded Ethernet cables, so the benefit does NOT come from EN-70HD disconnecting cable shields as there weren't any. Whatever is affecting the SQ is riding on the cable twisted pairs along with the intended Ethernet signals.

 

All this is a long-winded way of saying I'm a firm believer of signal integrity affecting SQ. My big thanks to John Swenson for highlighting the significance of this aspect of digital audio.

[wanta911]

@wanta911, thanks for sharing your SQ impressions for CAT6 and CAT6a.

 

I'm going to predict the effects of EN-70HD isolator will be very audible to you.

 

The following is mostly speculation on my part.

 

Since CAT6a has twice the bandwidth rating as CAT6 as well as lower alien crosstalk, signal integrity (waveform shape, skew, etc.) at the receiving end should theoretically be better with CAT6a. On the other hand, a higher bandwidth cable suggests a lower capacitive component of the differential impedance (due to different dielectic material?), which can make an unshielded cable more susceptible to picking up electromagnetic interference. Bandwidths of 250MHz and 500MHz for CAT6 & CAT6a respectively are overkill for gigabit link speed, and the cable optimizations to achieve these bandwidths may result in compromises for audio use, like BJC has indicated. Imagine a higher level of high frequency noise being carried into the renderer/streamer via the Ethernet cable...

 

I now wonder if BJC CAT5e (also with bonded pairs) is also worth exploring from the SQ perspective relative to CAT6 or CAT6a.

 

I suspect EMO EN-70HD isolator helps by acting as an additional barrier for common mode noise, essentially supplementing the common mode rejection capability of the receiver. Pulse transformers can act as low-pass (band-pass?) filters to reduce unwanted noise. My friend and I heard SQ improvements with EN-70HD while using unshielded Ethernet cables, so the benefit does NOT come from EN-70HD disconnecting cable shields as there weren't any. Whatever is affecting the SQ is riding on the cable twisted pairs along with the intended Ethernet signals.

 

All this is a long-winded way of saying I'm a firm believer of signal integrity affecting SQ. My big thanks to John Swenson for highlighting the significance of this aspect of digital audio.

 

Interesting. So do CAT6 & CAT6a have different shielding arrangements? I understand that 6a has more shielding but is one fixed and one floating?

[R1200CL]

In the previous listening session the EN-70HD was part of the microRendu setup, though we didn't evaluate removing the EN-70HD.

 

I can look into the EN-70HD vs. FMC comparison with the microRendu.

 

I do have two LPS-1 so can use one for microRendu and another for the downstream FMC.

 

My friend has tested with 2 LPS-1. One for the FMC 10/100 GB, and the second for the MicroRendu vs the alternative of using a Y-Splitter.

 

The dual LPS-1 setup was better. I would expect you will do the same findings.

 

So now is the question to either buy a second LPS-1 or an EN-70HD ?

 

Looking forward to your test.

And thanks for a great thread.

[MrUnderhill]

I've been relying largely on my friend's recommendation for transformers. He has had a Jensen for several years and used it for balanced <> unbalanced signal conversion. We settled on the Jensen PI-2XX after listening to one at my friend's place, and were satisfied enough to not go shopping around. As far as I can tell, Jensen transformers have a reputation for being "clean sounding", though the models are not all the same. I also like them for their ease of use.

 

My friend currently uses a total of three PI-2XX, with one directly after Vega. Mine is placed between Vega and Taurus MkII headphone amp. Our setups have balanced analog signals all the way to the final amplification stage, and my HD800 headphones also run balanced with an aftermarket cable.

 

I have no experience with other transformer brands like Lundahl, so can't comment on how they may compare with Jensen.

 

Hi Scan,

 

I picked up an ART transformer from eBay for £30 and slotted it in before committing to a Jensen. And? YESSSSS.

 

Over the last couple of months I have been concentrating on the positives of the microRendu over my Naim NS01. The detail has been great, but with each step I have increased clarity whilst, I now realise, losing what I will call ....timbre? For instance I have been hearing more clearly the bass line, and what the player is doing, but in some way it feels as though it has lost weight. Additionally some tracks, particularly Rock and Pop, have gained aggressive S & Ts, and overall the music has become sharper. This sharpness can be positive, additional detail and attack.

 

Over the past six weeks I have been trying to address this as the brightness has spoiled my enjoyment of the positives I have been hearing. I have:

 

1. Swapped in alternative amps;

2. Swapped in alternative cables;

3. Played with my speaker positioning;

4. Swapped in alternative speaker stands;

5. Cabled in alternative mains power;

6. Amongst others!

 

All of which did not address the issues. Things which did assist in a minor way:

 

1. Removing SMPSs in favour of LPSUs;

2. Adding ferrites to cables - perhaps, not convinced but it didn't hurt;

3. Adding FMCs and E70-HD;

4. Adding Jitterbuster;

5. Adding USB > RJ45 > USB bridge.

 

These things generally cleaned the signal without removing the brightness.

 

Adding the ART REALLY hit the spot. The general brightness has GONE. The specific issue on S & Ts is greatly reduced.

 

This now leaves me with one issue - I have an option on a Jensen at a good price, although not dirt cheap; will this further improve things, or just prove to be a waste of moolah. Of course I could go the mad route and contact Tim de Paravicini, who makes my amps and is famous for the quality of his transformers, and get a quote for a hand made isolator!

 

Anyway - THANK YOU for the side note, you have returned enjoyment to my listening, and doubled down in the advantages of the mR.

 

M

[scan80269]

Hi Scan,

 

I picked up an ART transformer from eBay for £30 and slotted it in before committing to a Jensen. And? YESSSSS.

 

Over the last couple of months I have been concentrating on the positives of the microRendu over my Naim NS01. The detail has been great, but with each step I have increased clarity whilst, I now realise, losing what I will call ....timbre? For instance I have been hearing more clearly the bass line, and what the player is doing, but in some way it feels as though it has lost weight. Additionally some tracks, particularly Rock and Pop, have gained aggressive S & Ts, and overall the music has become sharper. This sharpness can be positive, additional detail and attack.

 

Over the past six weeks I have been trying to address this as the brightness has spoiled my enjoyment of the positives I have been hearing. I have:

 

1. Swapped in alternative amps;

2. Swapped in alternative cables;

3. Played with my speaker positioning;

4. Swapped in alternative speaker stands;

5. Cabled in alternative mains power;

6. Amongst others!

 

All of which did not address the issues. Things which did assist in a minor way:

 

1. Removing SMPSs in favour of LPSUs;

2. Adding ferrites to cables - perhaps, not convinced but it didn't hurt;

3. Adding FMCs and E70-HD;

4. Adding Jitterbuster;

5. Adding USB > RJ45 > USB bridge.

 

These things generally cleaned the signal without removing the brightness.

 

Adding the ART REALLY hit the spot. The general brightness has GONE. The specific issue on S & Ts is greatly reduced.

 

This now leaves me with one issue - I have an option on a Jensen at a good price, although not dirt cheap; will this further improve things, or just prove to be a waste of moolah. Of course I could go the mad route and contact Tim de Paravicini, who makes my amps and is famous for the quality of his transformers, and get a quote for a hand made isolator!

 

Anyway - THANK YOU for the side note, you have returned enjoyment to my listening, and doubled down in the advantages of the mR.

 

M

Hi M,

 

It's great to hear the ART transformer is working for you.

 

I don't know how to predict whether adding a Jensen can bring additional SQ improvement. It's probably one of those things that need to be auditioned to gauge its effectiveness.

 

Adding a balanced transformer to the analog side is what I would call a counterintuitive move, and contradicts the "less is better" common wisdom. I really have my friend to thank for this one. The sonic benefits of transformers used properly can be quite amazing.

 

Another counterintuitive example is how my friend has been using a Behringer DCX2496 crossover to drive his KEF LS50 and Lyngdorf subs. The DCX2496 is not very well regarded sonically, and it adds additional A-to-D and D-to-A conversions to the music chain, so one would think it would introduce audible sonic degradation. In reality at my friend's place, the degradation heard is quite small (we tested DCX2496 in flat mode in & out of the system to compare) and is more than offset by the time alignment achieved between the main speakers and subs, some EQ for flatter frequency response and to compensate for the Allison effect, and a 1dB treble reduction that my friend prefers.

[MrUnderhill]

Hi Scan,

 

I have bought a Jensen from ebay for £140, be interested to hear if it does improve on what I am hearing - which is excellent. Allowing all the changes in the chain to shine. I suppose I ought to go through and re-test, but I think I am going to just sit back and relax!

 

My wife is buying me the Jensen for Christmas, so I will be doing some testing on Boxing Day.

 

Thx again, it was YOU who wrote about it.

 

M

[erniejade]

I am on the fence on what unit to buy. I have it narrowed down to the 2 listed in this thread. The Aries is about 1600 and the microrendu ia $650 but after you upgrade the power supply, add either an

Intona or w4s recovery, your now hitting the same price as the Aries with less in line between the unit and dac.

 

It sounds like the Aries is edging out the microrendu. Am I reading this correctly?

[jaapdeventer]

I am on the fence on what unit to buy. I have it narrowed down to the 2 listed in this thread. The Aries is about 1600 and the microrendu ia $650 but after you upgrade the power supply, add either an

Intona or w4s recovery, your now hitting the same price as the Aries with less in line between the unit and dac.

 

It sounds like the Aries is edging out the microrendu. Am I reading this correctly?

 

I think microRendu + LPS-1 outperforms Aries for less money.

 

Intona/w4s is just a tweak you might try with both. Certainly not necessary to get the microRendu/LPS-1 combo performing on a very high level. It's just that having your dac and renderer on this level the next step is updating the ethernet chain [emoji16].

[scan80269]

I am on the fence on what unit to buy. I have it narrowed down to the 2 listed in this thread. The Aries is about 1600 and the microrendu ia $650 but after you upgrade the power supply, add either an

Intona or w4s recovery, your now hitting the same price as the Aries with less in line between the unit and dac.

 

It sounds like the Aries is edging out the microrendu. Am I reading this correctly?

There is no hard and fast rule. Aries Femto running 4.0.0 firmware with Auralic LPS was compared to microRendu with LPS-1, EMO EN-70HD isolator, and 100Mbps Ethernet for both (using a Netgear FS105v3 switch) and same Auralic Vega DAC. My friend and I both preferred the sound of the Aries Femto. With a different setup, for example another DAC, the microRendu with tweaks may deliver better SQ. In other words, YMMV.

 

Yesterday, I replaced the SMPS wall wart for the Netgear FS105v3 switch with a modified Teradak X1/X2 LPS (adjusted to 12V output) for the Aries Femto setup at my friend's place, and there was a distinct SQ improvement. The Teradak LPS was plugged through a TrippLite isolation transformer just like the SMPS wall wart before it. I plan to modify a FS105v3 switch to replace the remaining switching regulator sitting on its circuit board.

[hornytoad]

There is no hard and fast rule. Aries Femto running 4.0.0 firmware with Auralic LPS was compared to microRendu with LPS-1, EMO EN-70HD isolator, and 100Mbps Ethernet for both (using a Netgear FS105v3 switch) and same Auralic Vega DAC. My friend and I both preferred the sound of the Aries Femto. With a different setup, for example another DAC, the microRendu with tweaks may deliver better SQ. In other words, YMMV.

 

Yesterday, I replaced the SMPS wall wart for the Netgear FS105v3 switch with a modified Teradak X1/X2 LPS (adjusted to 12V output) for the Aries Femto setup at my friend's place, and there was a distinct SQ improvement. The Teradak LPS was plugged through a TrippLite isolation transformer just like the SMPS wall wart before it. I plan to modify a FS105v3 to replace the remaining SMPS sitting on the circuit board.

 

I have both the Aries femto with Lps and MicroRendu with Lps-1

I would say they are both very good but the soundstage is larger , more expansive with the Aries in my setup .

That's the biggest difference I see .

 

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Computer Audiophile

[scan80269]

There is no hard and fast rule. Aries Femto running 4.0.0 firmware with Auralic LPS was compared to microRendu with LPS-1, EMO EN-70HD isolator, and 100Mbps Ethernet for both (using a Netgear FS105v3 switch) and same Auralic Vega DAC. My friend and I both preferred the sound of the Aries Femto. With a different setup, for example another DAC, the microRendu with tweaks may deliver better SQ. In other words, YMMV.

 

Yesterday, I replaced the SMPS wall wart for the Netgear FS105v3 switch with a modified Teradak X1/X2 LPS (adjusted to 12V output) for the Aries Femto setup at my friend's place, and there was a distinct SQ improvement. The Teradak LPS was plugged through a TrippLite isolation transformer just like the SMPS wall wart before it. I plan to modify a FS105v3 switch to replace the remaining switching regulator sitting on its circuit board.

With the Teradak LPS powering the FS105vs switch, the soundstage got deeper, instrument sizes became smaller and more focused, voices became richer and more expressive. Most recordings sounded more lively and engaging. This tweak is just the latest in a series with astonishing SQ improvements.

 

I agree the Aries Femto with firmware 4.0.0 (or latest 4.1.0) and LPS is an impressive sounding piece of equipment.

 

There also appears to be more new features released through firmware for the Aries series than the microRendu.

[MrUnderhill]

I am on the fence on what unit to buy. I have it narrowed down to the 2 listed in this thread. The Aries is about 1600 and the microrendu ia $650 but after you upgrade the power supply, add either an

Intona or w4s recovery, your now hitting the same price as the Aries with less in line between the unit and dac.

 

It sounds like the Aries is edging out the microrendu. Am I reading this correctly?

 

The SOtM sMS-200 has received some good feedback as well:

 

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCR4tuhqPppVp-PD0q17sPEA/videos

 

M

[guerph]

Just ordered the sms-200. Will report back once tested.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Computer Audiophile

[erniejade]

Thanks all. I took a look at the SOtM and it looks like a solid unit as well after a better power supply is added. Right now I am running an hp laptop, Intona and just added a w4s recovery. While it sounds good I am looking for a little bit better. For simplicity sake, it almost looks like the Aries with the stock power supply might be the way to go. Even though the SOtM starting price is cheaper, add 500-700$ for the power supply now makes it in the price range Aries.

 

Btw off topic, does anyone make a audiophile power supply for laptop? I really wonder after the USB tweaks like w4s and Intona, if the laptop and external drive power supply's are what's holding back my system or just laptop users in general.

 

As as of right now, I am leaning towards the Aries but again, my mind is not set yet.

[scan80269]

I'd vote for Aries from SQ perspective, especially considering the sonic improvements enabled by 4.0.0 firmware. The downsampling feature in 4.1.0 firmware allows me to play high-res PCM up to 24/384 or DXD to my KEF X300A speakers with internal 24/96 DAC.

 

I also like the ease of switching between local content and internet radio stations with Lightning DS.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Computer Audiophile

[erniejade]

I had on loan a Node2. I enjoyed going between internet raido, todal and the nas located up stairs without having to jump through hoops so I completely understand what your saying there. Unfortunately, while the node is easy to use, on my main 2 channel rig, the difference between the node and cd or laptop with the Intona and w4s running coax through my w4s dac 2 was not subtle. My wife even asked why the node sounded compressed, more narrow, ans the air to the highs were gone.

 

We tried the node in the living room HT rig and that consists of a pioneer elite sc27, polk RTI front, center, and rear and a sony buleray player. In that rig we could not tell the difference between cd, or the node both using the pioneers dac.

 

Back to the 2 channel rig, so far the biggest difference in the tweek chain for the laptop has been the recovery. This broght the sound so I can't tell the difference between cd or the laptop. I will order the Aires tomorrow.

One more question, does it sound better if I run the drive locally? usb hard drive into the aries or better through the nas? My nas is on another floor of the house along with my router. If I was going to go Ethernet, I would need to get a range extender that has Ethernet out. Would that make a difference or should I just keep it wireless? From reading, you have preferred hard wire over wireless but, I am not sure if your router is actually around the unit?

[scan80269]

One more question, does it sound better if I run the drive locally? usb hard drive into the aries or better through the nas? My nas is on another floor of the house along with my router. If I was going to go Ethernet, I would need to get a range extender that has Ethernet out. Would that make a difference or should I just keep it wireless? From reading, you have preferred hard wire over wireless but, I am not sure if your router is actually around the unit?

In my experience, Aries sounds better streaming from NAS than from local USB hard drive. I suspect this is because Aries is electrically quieter with no local USB storage attached.

 

I don't recommend WiFi range extenders as they often don't work that well and also cuts the WiFi bandwidth in half by design. My friend uses a second wireless router configured as a wireless bridge to link his Aries to the first wireless router where his NAS is connected. The networking link between NAS and Aries does not need to be 100% wired. My previous posts in this thread indicate Aries can deliver better sound when receiving from wired Ethernet, especially at 100Mbps, vs. wireless, so having a wireless bridge to feed Aries makes a lot of sonic sense.

 

I have just received a Netgear Orbi (router & satellite pair) and will be using it to enable my downstairs Aries to stream via wired (it is currently using wireless), among other purposes. My wireless router and NAS are both upstairs. There will be a Netgear FS105v3 Fast Ethernet switch (powered by linear PS) and an EMO Systems EN-70HD Ethernet isolator sitting between the Orbi satellite and Aries, all located downstairs. Proximity of the Orbi satellite to Aries will allow me to use very short (1-foot) Ethernet cables. I may also try a modified (100Mbps only) CAT6/6a cable to see how it compares SQ-wise with using the FS105v3 switch to force Aries to 100Mbps.

 

Just for my education and to satisfy my curiosity, I'll replace the switching regulator inside one FS105v3 switch with a linear regulator for a comparison with a stock switch. Since the use of external linear PS replacing the Netgear wall wart delivered a substantial SQ improvement in two separate venues, getting rid of that switching regulator within the switch may yield another incremental improvement.

[scan80269]

I also have a Vinnie Rossi MINI PURE-DC-4EVR power supply on order as yet another power supply option for my Aries Femto. Auralic's LPS and SBooster BOTW LPS, being great PSU options for Aries Femto, lack the ability to break leakage current loops that the VR LPS provides.

 

If your DAC does not require USB +5V bus power to work, I recommend adding a SBooster VBus2 isolator for Aries. My friend reported a small but definite SQ improvement when the VBus2 was added. He tried taping up the +5V contact on the USB cable first, but the VBus2 yielded better SQ. I suppose another step would be a USB cable with a detachable ground connection, which I currently do not have.