Auralic Aries & Sonore microRendu listening impressions

[dmormerod]

In my experience, Aries sounds better streaming from NAS than from local USB hard drive. I suspect this is because Aries is electrically quieter with no local USB storage attached.

 

I don't recommend WiFi range extenders as they often don't work that well and also cuts the WiFi bandwidth in half by design. My friend uses a second wireless router configured as a wireless bridge to link his Aries to the first wireless router where his NAS is connected. The networking link between NAS and Aries does not need to be 100% wired. My previous posts in this thread indicate Aries can deliver better sound when receiving from wired Ethernet, especially at 100Mbps, vs. wireless, so having a wireless bridge to feed Aries makes a lot of sonic sense.

 

I have just received a Netgear Orbi (router & satellite pair) and will be using it to enable my downstairs Aries to stream via wired (it is currently using wireless), among other purposes. My wireless router and NAS are both upstairs. There will be a Netgear FS105v3 Fast Ethernet switch (powered by linear PS) and an EMO Systems EN-70HD Ethernet isolator sitting between the Orbi satellite and Aries, all located downstairs. Proximity of the Orbi satellite to Aries will allow me to use very short (1-foot) Ethernet cables. I may also try a modified (100Mbps only) CAT6/6a cable to see how it compares SQ-wise with using the FS105v3 switch to force Aries to 100Mbps.

 

Just for my education and to satisfy my curiosity, I'll replace the switching regulator inside one FS105v3 switch with a linear regulator for a comparison with a stock switch. Since the use of external linear PS replacing the Netgear wall wart delivered a substantial SQ improvement in two separate venues, getting rid of that switching regulator within the switch may yield another incremental improvement.

 

Where are folks buying their EN-70HD's from? The EMO Systems website says the account is suspended and not working.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[erniejade]

Thanks for the tips. I haven't seen that netgear before. It looks like my Asus might get replaced! After getting marries to a woman that has teen girls, I learned a few years ago how important a solid router is in the help. I had to step it up from my old belkin tri mode to an Asus that can basically split into 2 seperate since both kids stream to their tv and cell phones. Otherwise if I wanted to stream something to the tv in the livng room while they both were streaming to their tv, I would get a bad picture and lots of buffering. After I split it using the Asus a few years ago, all of us can stream HD, and use 4 cell phones on our Comcast internet without buffering issues. But, it looks like router technology has caught up with some of the speed/heavy duty home use ( about time!) With that netgear.

 

Thanks for the tip on the vbus2. When it arrives, if I don't hear a difference with the w4s recovery or Intona in line with it, I will pick one up. I believe the w4s and Intona both need it. My w4s dac2 does not and is actually on their list of compatible devices.

[scan80269]

Where are folks buying their EN-70HD's from? The EMO Systems website says the account is suspended and not working.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Strange. I successfully ordered from them a second time just two weeks ago.

[wanta911]

Is the EMO EN-70HD directional or can it be inserted either way?

[wanta911]

Also, would it matter where the FS105 is in the chain? For example, if using a wireless bridge could it be used between the NAS and the main router instead of between the bridge and the renderer?

[scan80269]

Is the EMO EN-70HD directional or can it be inserted either way?

 

 

Also, would it matter where the FS105 is in the chain? For example, if using a wireless bridge could it be used between the NAS and the main router instead of between the bridge and the renderer?

Good question. I've been putting the black end of EN-70HD towards my Aries. There are surge components on one side of the transformers, but I don't know whether they are located on the black end. I'm not going to disassemble a EN-70HD just to find out.

 

For FS105 Fast Ethernet switch, mine are placed ahead of Aries. My current networking setup for audio looks like this:

 

NAS <> GS108 Gigabit Switch <> FS105 Fast Ethernet Switch <> EN-70HD <> Aries Mini

 

With my recent acquisition of Netgear Orbi router, the setup for the Aries downstairs now looks like this:

 

NAS <> GS108 Gigabit Switch <> Orbi router <wireless> Orbi satellite <> FS105 Fast Ethernet Switch <> EN-70HD <> Aries Mini

 

My friend has just confirmed that the FS105 switch can be replaced by a custom Ethernet cable with connectivity in just two twisted pairs (pins 1/2, 3/6). Such a "100Mbps only" Ethernet cable eliminates the need for the FS105 switch, and thus the need for another linear power supply as a replacement for the Netgear wall wart. SQ comparison between FS105/LPS and this custom Ethernet cable has begun, and a report may be posted later.

[wanta911]

Good question. I've been putting the black end of EN-70HD towards my Aries. There are surge components on one side of the transformers, but I don't know whether they are located on the black end. I'm not going to disassemble a EN-70HD just to find out.

 

Funny, I actually installed mine the other way around based solely on the drawing on the EMO site, which seems to indicate the input is on the end with the "EMO" raised lettering (the black end). That isn't definitive though and there is nothing about it in the instructions so I have sent an email to EMO....let's see if they get back to me.

 

[wanta911]

 

For FS105 Fast Ethernet switch, mine are placed ahead of Aries. My current networking setup for audio looks like this:

 

NAS <> GS108 Gigabit Switch <> FS105 Fast Ethernet Switch <> EN-70HD <> Aries Mini

 

With my recent acquisition of Netgear Orbi router, the setup for the Aries downstairs now looks like this:

 

NAS <> GS108 Gigabit Switch <> Orbi router <wireless> Orbi satellite <> FS105 Fast Ethernet Switch <> EN-70HD <> Aries Mini

 

My friend has just confirmed that the FS105 switch can be replaced by a custom Ethernet cable with connectivity in just two twisted pairs (pins 1/2, 3/6). Such a "100Mbps only" Ethernet cable eliminates the need for the FS105 switch, and thus the need for another linear power supply as a replacement for the Netgear wall wart. SQ comparison between FS105/LPS and this custom Ethernet cable has begun, and a report may be posted later.

 

My current setup looks like this:

 

NAS <> Netgear R7000 router <wireless> Netgear R7000 wireless bridge <> FS105 Fast Ethernet Switch <> EN-70HD <> Aries

 

And I might try this:

 

NAS <> FS105 Fast Ethernet Switch <> Netgear R7000 router <wireless> Netgear R7000 wireless bridge <> EN-70HD <> Aries

 

Effectively it should be doing exactly the same thing (reducing gigabit to 100mbps) albeit much earlier in the chain. The attraction is to get another powered device away from my setup and into another room that is on a different circuit. I'm not sure if it will affect anything as far as bandwidth etc is concerned? I guess I will find out

 

BTW: I am finding a difference with both the FS105 and EMO in the chain.

[scan80269]

My current setup looks like this:

 

NAS <> Netgear R7000 router <wireless> Netgear R7000 wireless bridge <> FS105 Fast Ethernet Switch <> EN-70HD <> Aries

 

And I might try this:

 

NAS <> FS105 Fast Ethernet Switch <> Netgear R7000 router <wireless> Netgear R7000 wireless bridge <> EN-70HD <> Aries

 

Effectively it should be doing exactly the same thing (reducing gigabit to 100mbps) albeit much earlier in the chain. The attraction is to get another powered device away from my setup and into another room that is on a different circuit. I'm not sure if it will affect anything as far as bandwidth etc is concerned? I guess I will find out

 

BTW: I am finding a difference with both the FS105 and EMO in the chain.

The second setup will not force Aries to talk at 100Mbps. This is assuming the LAN ports of the Netgear R7000 wireless bridge are gigabit capable. This arrangement limits the networking throughput between NAS and Aries to 100Mbps, but the Ethernet link rate of Aries talking to R7000 (through the EN-70HD) will still be gigabit. I will venture a guess that this setup may not sound quite as good as your current setup, with Aries talking to a FS105 at 100Mbps. Per my previous report, Aries delivered the best SQ for me when forced to talk 100Mbps on its Ethernet port. It would be interesting to hear which setup sounds better to you, though.

 

I'm not surprised about a difference resulting from both FS105 and EN-70HD being used. Each of these options was evaluated by itself at my friend's place, with best results coming from both being in use.

[wanta911]

The second setup will not force Aries to talk at 100Mbps. This is assuming the LAN ports of the Netgear R7000 wireless bridge are gigabit capable. This arrangement limits the networking throughput between NAS and Aries to 100Mbps, but the Ethernet link rate of Aries talking to R7000 (through the EN-70HD) will still be gigabit. I will venture a guess that this setup may not sound quite as good as your current setup, with Aries talking to a FS105 at 100Mbps. Per my previous report, Aries delivered the best SQ for me when forced to talk 100Mbps on its Ethernet port. It would be interesting to hear which setup sounds better to you, though.

 

I'm not surprised about a difference resulting from both FS105 and EN-70HD being used. Each of these options was evaluated by itself at my friend's place, with best results coming from both being in use.

 

OK that makes sense. As I really am just enjoying the music right now - I might give it a miss.

[erniejade]

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B010S6RYUY?ref_=ams_ad_dp_asin_3

 

 

Would this do the trick to link my upstairs wireless to my down stairs snd keep it fsst enough for the Aries and keep it dedicated for audio while keeping the kids and video seperate?

[erniejade]

Delete

[erniejade]

Scratch that first link I think the orbi is the eay to go.

[scan80269]

Scratch that first link I think the orbi is the eay to go.

Yes, my Orbi satellite allows my downstairs Aries to stream via Ethernet, and my NAS upstairs can remain where it is, with the Orbi router sitting next to it.

 

I just did a throughput test using a PC connected to the Orbi satellite downstairs via gigabit Ethernet, copying a large (4GB) file from the upstairs NAS. The transfer rate was between 400 and 600 Mbps (megabits per second), averaging about 550 Mbps. This is way more bandwidth than is needed to stream DSD256 or 24/384 or DXD PCM. The Orbi backhaul channel is quite well implemented.

 

I also listened to my Aries streaming through Orbi at 100Mbps (with custom "100Mbps only" dual twisted pair Ethernet cable) using my headphones setup, and the sound is better than ever!

 

Orbi can be a great solution for those with NAS and streamer/renderer located on different floors. I much prefer the Orbi solution than having to mess with a wireless bridge (or another router or extender configured as bridge). The Orbi setup was also quite friendly and painless.

[mikey8811]

Has anyone compared Orbi, Eero and the new Google wireless meshes?

[scan80269]

Has anyone compared Orbi, Eero and the new Google wireless meshes?

Orbi was evaluated against Eero and Luma over at SmallNetBuilder:

 

NETGEAR Orbi Reviewed - SmallNetBuilder

 

As for SQ in audio streaming setups, I doubt many of us have more than one of these new-fangled routers.

 

BTW, Orbi is strictly speaking not implementing true mesh protocol (typical marketing distortion to call it mesh). It's one router plus one or more satellites linking via high bandwidth backhaul channel. The satellites do not communicate with each other. I do find the Orbi router/satellite pair quite optimal for my needs, though, and should not need to purchase a second satellite.

[wanta911]

I considered getting the Orbi but at the end of the day it was $450 (AUS) more expensive than getting a 2nd Netgear Nighthawk router.

 

If I had needed to update my router the Orbi would have been a viable option but my network with the Nighthawk has been rock solid and it took me 15 minutes to set up the wireless bridge using 5G exclusively.

[wanta911]

I got a prompt response from EMO:

Hi,

The network isolators are bidirectional, there is not a specific input/output side.

 

 

Thank you for contacting us.

[scan80269]

I got a prompt response from EMO:

Hi,

The network isolators are bidirectional, there is not a specific input/output side.

 

 

Thank you for contacting us.

 

Yesterday I suggested to a couple of audio friends to try reversing the orientation of the EN-70HD isolator. Both of them reported a SQ improvement that was not subtle. The better sound resulted from the EN-70HD oriented with the black side not directly cabled to Aries.

 

To quote my friend: "I got a yet deeper sound stage and a more realistic combination of recorded direct and reflected sound. The expression of the performance and the emotion of music are surprising. For example, Wong Fei's expression is now even more convincing and attractive, with the whole track seeming to progress at a faster pace."

 

EMO is right in that for general networking operation, the EN-70HD orientation should not matter, but for audio purposes one of the two orientations can yield better sound, so I recommend folks using the EN-70HD to try both orientations and pick the one that sounds better.

[austinpop]

I've been relying largely on my friend's recommendation for transformers. He has had a Jensen for several years and used it for balanced <> unbalanced signal conversion. We settled on the Jensen PI-2XX after listening to one at my friend's place, and were satisfied enough to not go shopping around. As far as I can tell, Jensen transformers have a reputation for being "clean sounding", though the models are not all the same. I also like them for their ease of use.

 

My friend currently uses a total of three PI-2XX, with one directly after Vega. Mine is placed between Vega and Taurus MkII headphone amp. Our setups have balanced analog signals all the way to the final amplification stage, and my HD800 headphones also run balanced with an aftermarket cable.

 

I have no experience with other transformer brands like Lundahl, so can't comment on how they may compare with Jensen.

 

Hi Scan,

 

I've been going over this thread - it is such excellent info! I see I missed some things on the first pass - like these Jensen isolators. I think when you first mentioned these, I thought you were talking of power isolators, since some of the other threads were abuzz (or humming ) with talk of Topaz and Elgar, and what have you.

 

No, what I missed was that these are in the analog domain. I too use a fully balanced path from my Codex DAC to my Cavalli Liquid Gold amp to my HD800s!

 

So - question for you. I'm assuming you're using XLR to XLR. I have some not inexpensive XLR interconnects (Ayre Signature XLR) already between my Codex and the LAu. The isolator necessitates another pair of interconnects. Do you use the identical interconnects on both sides of the isolator? Or can one side be cheaper? Wondering if you've experimented.

 

I must add these Jensens to my list to audition.

[austinpop]

I picked up an ART transformer from eBay for £30 and slotted it in before committing to a Jensen. And? YESSSSS.

Hi M,

 

Which ART model did you buy from eBay?

 

Thanks!

[austinpop]

Hi Scan,

 

I have bought a Jensen from ebay for £140, be interested to hear if it does improve on what I am hearing - which is excellent. Allowing all the changes in the chain to shine. I suppose I ought to go through and re-test, but I think I am going to just sit back and relax!

 

My wife is buying me the Jensen for Christmas, so I will be doing some testing on Boxing Day.

 

Thx again, it was YOU who wrote about it.

 

M

Ack - should have read ahead to this.

 

So M - you now owe us a comparison of the ART and Jensen once you get it! Also mention what cables/interconnects you used.

 

Thx.

[scan80269]

Hi Scan,

 

I've been going over this thread - it is such excellent info! I see I missed some things on the first pass - like these Jensen isolators. I think when you first mentioned these, I thought you were talking of power isolators, since some of the other threads were abuzz (or humming ) with talk of Topaz and Elgar, and what have you.

 

No, what I missed was that these are in the analog domain. I too use a fully balanced path from my Codex DAC to my Cavalli Liquid Gold amp to my HD800s!

 

So - question for you. I'm assuming you're using XLR to XLR. I have some not inexpensive XLR interconnects (Ayre Signature XLR) already between my Codex and the LAu. The isolator necessitates another pair of interconnects. Do you use the identical interconnects on both sides of the isolator? Or can one side be cheaper? Wondering if you've experimented.

 

I must add these Jensens to my list to audition.

I use Mogami Gold Studio XLR-to-XLR 2' cables on both sides of the Jensen PI-2XX transformer. I also have a pair of WireWorld XLR cables but they are too long and thick to support the Jensen insertion. For my HD800 I use Endorphin balanced cable (non-hardwired) by Stefan AudioArt.

 

My next tweak is to replace the SMPS wall wart for my Netgear Orbi satellite with a linear power supply, perhaps a Teradak 30W 12V model. The Orbi wall wart is plugged into the same power strip as my Aries Femto, Vega DAC and Taurus headphone amp, so I'm motivated to go SMPS free on that power strip with just one power supply change. The Orbi itself provides of galvanic isolation between my NAS and Aries Femto.

 

This coming Saturday I hope to spend some time at another friend's place to assess Aries Mini SQ using wireless, gigabit Ethernet and 100Mbps Ethernet networking options. I've already shared auditioning results for such an exercise with Aries Femto, but want to determine whether Aries Mini can benefit from the same tweak.

[MrUnderhill]

Hi Austinpop,

 

The Jensen arrived yesterday, but the seller had not wrapped it well. It is a heavy thing and he had placed it in a padded envelope, from which it had escaped. When I connected it up only one channel worked, groan. He is sending me another.

 

The one channel that did work sounded like a step up from the ART.

 

In terms of balanced cables: For the moment I am slotting in standard professional fare between the DAC and the transformer, so I was very surprised when the made a big difference. Originally I was using a pair of 2m Sommer OFC that I had in a cupboard. For neatness I order a pair of 0.5 xlr off Amazon, mistake; they seemed to act like a low pass filter, I used them for three days and went back. Once my dealer has a sale I'll probably buy a pair of Chord XLRs, which is what I use between my pre and power amps.

 

I'll report back when the replacement Jensen has arrived.

 

M

[austinpop]

I use Mogami Gold Studio XLR-to-XLR 2' cables on both sides of the Jensen PI-2XX transformer. I also have a pair of WireWorld XLR cables but they are too long and thick to support the Jensen insertion. For my HD800 I use Endorphin balanced cable (non-hardwired) by Stefan AudioArt.

 

Thanks. I currently have Ayre Signature XLR between my DAC and amp, and Moon Audio Black Dragon balanced for the HD800.

 

I am curious whether, with all your other ground leakage loop efforts in place, with FMCs, LPS-1, Intona, etc, the Jensen's still have an impact? Or was it inserted pre-digital tweaks? I always ask myself that question when I cascade tweaks upon tweaks - what am I hearing - or not hearing - because of other isolation efforts in my overall system?

 

Would you be willing to add this to your list of experiments next time you do a listening session at your friend's? BTW - you've made him/her sound like a real man/woman of mystery!

 

I guess the questions on the table for me are:

• Will the Jensen help or hinder in my setup?
  
• Does the quality of the XLR cable from the DAC to the Jensen input matter (i.e. another expense!)?
  
• Does the benefit of my Ayre Signature cable over cheaper cables hold once I have the Jensen?
  

 

Guess I'm putting a Jensen PI-2XX on my wish-list! Not sure when the coffers will allow.

 

My next tweak is to replace the SMPS wall wart for my Netgear Orbi satellite with a linear power supply, perhaps a Teradak 30W 12V model. The Orbi wall wart is plugged into the same power strip as my Aries Femto, Vega DAC and Taurus headphone amp, so I'm motivated to go SMPS free on that power strip with just one power supply change. The Orbi itself provides of galvanic isolation between my NAS and Aries Femto.

 

This coming Saturday I hope to spend some time at another friend's place to assess Aries Mini SQ using wireless, gigabit Ethernet and 100Mbps Ethernet networking options. I've already shared auditioning results for such an exercise with Aries Femto, but want to determine whether Aries Mini can benefit from the same tweak.

 

As always, eagerly awaiting your findings!