Auralic Aries & Sonore microRendu listening impressions

[scan80269]

Wow, cool thread! I'm late to this party.

(Been too busy building more LPS-1 units to keep you gents satisfied Have not had time to look for new threads to subscribe to.)

 

I might finally try one of those EMO EN-70HD isolators on my BJC/Belden CAT6A now that there seems to be consensus that it is the best of them.

 

Best,

--Alex C.

 

There seems to be some agreement that the EN-70HD can deliver slightly better SQ vs. the Baaske MI-1005 (I have evaluated both), but there's also the Etalon isolator that I've been reading rave reviews about. The Etalon is quite expensive and apparently difficult for folks in the US to get theirs hands on.

 

My friend and I plan to entice two other audiophile buddies also with Aries to switch from wireless to 100Mbps Ethernet and to adopt the EN-70HD isolator and good Ethernet cables e.g. BJC CAT6a. I'm also becoming more eager to do a shootout between EN-70HD and FMC pair with an LPS-1 powering the downstream FMC.

[asdf1000]

Any AC noise jumping through the Ethernet pulse transformer would get carried by the twisted pairs of the cable to the other end. I believe this can occur even with cables that have a floating shield or no shield. CAT5e and CAT6 cables are typically U/UTP (i.e. no outer shield & no individual twisted pair shields, just 4 twisted pairs). The noise can run over the twisted pairs. The differential receiver in the Ethernet PHY is designed to achieve common-mode noise rejection, but any noise not coupling equally to the two wires of a differential pair will not get perfect attenuation. Common mode noise will still be normally reduced by quite a lot of dB by the differential receiver, but it may not be completely eliminated. These hypotheses are based on listening observations showing the EN-70HD isolator can improve SQ when all the Ethernet cables involved are of the unshielded type.

 

I suspect the Ethernet isolators offer an additional amount of AC noise reduction. Putting an EN-70HD just before the Aries can help attenuate noise picked up by the Ethernet cable run that is not optimally cancelled by common-mode rejection. I would guess the lower the cable quality (in terms of upholding signal integrity) the more effective an Ethernet isolator may be.

 

One thing I'll likely do in copying my friend is to use a wireless bridge to connect my Aries (downstairs) to the NAS (upstairs) thereby changing Aries from wireless to wired and eliminating the need for a long Ethernet cable run between the Aries and my wireless router (which I'm sure my wife would object to). I'm seriously considering replacing my Netgear R8500 router with a Netgear Orbi router/satellite pair. The Orbi router would sit upstairs next to my NAS, and the satellite (in wireless bridge role) would sit near the Aries downstairs, with a Netgear FS105v3 Fast Ethernet switch to force Aries to talk at 100Mbps. If I get such a setup going some time after Thanksgiving I'll post a follow-up report.

Thanks once again. Makes a lot of sense. Your findings are very fascinating and useful.

 

Sent from my Blackberry DTEK50 using Tapatalk

[wanta911]

My take on this is that at 100Mbps the Ethernet receiver (PHY) on the Aries has to work less hard (and generate less electrical noise) than at gigabit speed to retrieve the digital bitstream. 100Mbps (100BASE-TX) operates with only two wire pairs and at one bit per symbol vs. gigabit (1000BASE-T) operating with all four wire pairs and at two bits per symbol. In my experience, better SQ results when the electrical noise level on the Aries circuit board(s) can be reduced, for example by lowering processor workload, using 100Mbps wired instead of wireless, no USB storage attached and so on.

 

Thanks for that.

 

It's too bad that another (powered) step is required to force 100mbps though, it is one of the reasons I haven't gone the fiber route due to the powered FMCs, preferring to go passive wherever possible. If it was a dedicated listening room then it wouldn't be so bad but my living room is already starting to look like an electrical sub-station

 

I have a Netgear switch but of course it's the GS gigabit model so I'll have to hunt for the FS or similar. I've got an EN-70HD on the way so I will do some testing on my own setup in the next couple of weeks.

[Doak]

Thanks for your work and this thread.

I expect to try some of these things when my system is back up and settled - recent move into new house with dedicated music room.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Computer Audiophile

[scan80269]

Thanks for that.

 

It's too bad that another (powered) step is required to force 100mbps though, it is one of the reasons I haven't gone the fiber route due to the powered FMCs, preferring to go passive wherever possible. If it was a dedicated listening room then it wouldn't be so bad but my living room is already starting to look like an electrical sub-station

 

I have a Netgear switch but of course it's the GS gigabit model so I'll have to hunt for the FS or similar. I've got an EN-70HD on the way so I will do some testing on my own setup in the next couple of weeks.

 

It should be possible to force 100Mbps speed without using a Fast Ethernet switch. An Ethernet cable can be modified by disconnecting at least one of the cable twisted pairs used at gigabit speed but not at 100Mbps. If done correctly this should prevent successful gigabit negotiation between switch and device so the link speed becomes 100Mbps. Insulating some of the contacts at the RJ-45 connectors of a cable may be easier than actually cutting the twisted pairs. I may try this myself to see how well it works.

 

I'm planning to experiment a bit with power sources for my FS105v3 switch. I have on order a Teradak Teralink X1/X2 8.5V 1A linear power supply that I will modify and adjust. This is a cheap LPS alternative to the included SMPS, and should deliver some degree of SQ improvement on top of what the EN-70HD provides.

[Darock]

I have followed this thread with great interest.

I'm currently running my Aries femto in wireless mode, connected to the dac via USB / Regen. As I understand it Aries downloads the whole file from the NAS or Tidal/Qobuz into the memory and plays it from there.

How can the EN70HD have annimpact on the SQ?

The file transfer must use some sort of check sum to guarantee the file integrity...

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Computer Audiophile

[scan80269]

I have followed this thread with great interest.

I'm currently running my Aries femto in wireless mode, connected to the dac via USB / Regen. As I understand it Aries downloads the whole file from the NAS or Tidal/Qobuz into the memory and plays it from there.

How can the EN70HD have annimpact on the SQ?

The file transfer must use some sort of check sum to guarantee the file integrity...

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Computer Audiophile

It's not a matter of data integrity of the audio stream going into Aries, as it is assumed to be error free thanks to the Ethernet TCP protocol with packet retransmission mechanism. EN-70HD isolator can affect Aries SQ as I believe Aries is susceptible to at least two types of noise: (1) noise conducted into Aries from the Ethernet cable, (2) noise generated internally on the circuit board by chip activities. Best SQ can be achieved when both types of noise are reduced to their minimum possible levels. The EN-70HD helps reduce noise type (1).

 

Even though Aries with memory play feature will preload a whole track (or part of a big track) into memory, which generates a big lump of network data transfer whenever a new track is called up, during the times in between tracks where Aries is playing from memory, the Ethernet port is still far from being completely quiescent. Even though the noise generated by the Ethernet PHY with no music payload transferring should be much less than when Aries is reading a track into memory as fast as the Ethernet can deliver, there is still a baseline level of PHY related noise that exists unless the Ethernet cable is physically unplugged.

 

The SQ difference between Aries streaming wireless and wired is determined empirically. Wired streaming sounding better suggests the combination of Ethernet PHY noise & cable conducted noise can be less than the noise generated by the wireless module. One thing that I haven't done but probably should do is to measure Aries power consumption between wireless and wired modes during streaming. I want to see whether the better SQ can be correlated to lower device power consumption.

[mikey8811]

Actually, I found wireless ac for the Aries better sounding than ethernet. But I was using two 2m lengths Cat 5 patch cable joined by a connector from my router for ethernet connection with no optical isolation.

 

Just out of interest, if I am using wireless but still have the ethernet cable plugged into the Aries, does the noise you outlined in (1) still come into play?

 

It's not a matter of data integrity of the audio stream going into Aries, as it is assumed to be error free thanks to the Ethernet TCP protocol with packet retransmission mechanism. EN-70HD isolator can affect Aries SQ as I believe Aries is susceptible to at least two types of noise: (1) noise conducted into Aries from the Ethernet cable, (2) noise generated internally on the circuit board by chip activities. Best SQ can be achieved when both types of noise are reduced to their minimum possible levels. The EN-70HD helps reduce noise type (1).

 

Even though Aries with memory play feature will preload a whole track (or part of a big track) into memory, which generates a big lump of network data transfer whenever a new track is called up, during the times in between tracks where Aries is playing from memory, the Ethernet port is still far from being completely quiescent. Even though the noise generated by the Ethernet PHY with no music payload transferring should be much less than when Aries is reading a track into memory as fast as the Ethernet can deliver, there is still a baseline level of PHY related noise that exists unless the Ethernet cable is physically unplugged.

 

The SQ difference between Aries streaming wireless and wired is determined empirically. Wired streaming sounding better suggests the combination of Ethernet PHY noise & cable conducted noise can be less than the noise generated by the wireless module. One thing that I haven't done but probably should do is to measure Aries power consumption between wireless and wired modes during streaming. I want to see whether the better SQ can be correlated to lower device power consumption.

[scan80269]

Actually, I found wireless ac for the Aries better sounding than ethernet. But I was using two 2m lengths Cat 5 patch cable joined by a connector from my router for ethernet connection.

 

A year ago my friend and I also concluded that wireless sounded better than wired with Aries. We used a 50-foot CAT5e cable between router and Aries back then with no tweaks whatsoever.

 

I only realized recently that even the Ethernet connection can be tweaked to improve SQ. For example, 100Mbps instead of Gigabit, inserting EN-70HD Ethernet isolator, better quality cables, etc. My friend is using a combination of wireless and wired. There is a wireless connection between his router and a wireless bridge, which cables to a Fast Ethernet switch (to force 100Mbps link speed) then an EN-70HD isolator before finally running into Aries. This setup may have an advantage as it eliminates the need for a long Ethernet cable which can have worse signal integrity and noise susceptibility issues. I'm planning a similar setup for myself, based on Netgear Orbi to implement a wireless link between upstairs and downstairs, and will use BJC CAT6a cables as short as 1 foot to complete the connectivity.

 

I forgot to mention that my friend and I discovered that changing the power supply for the FS105v3 switch from the included small SMPS (wall wart) to a linear power supply can improve the SQ. I think this is similar to the scenario with a pair of FMCs & optical cable where the downstream FMC is powered by LPS to obtain better SQ. It really is best to avoid using SMPS to power any device involved in transporting the audio stream.

 

As usual, YMMV.

[scan80269]

Just out of interest, if I am using wireless but still have the ethernet cable plugged into the Aries, does the noise you outlined in (1) still come into play?

I would say yes. I don't believe Aries actually cuts power to the internal Ethernet chip when in wireless mode, so noise type (1) coming in from the cable is still a factor. Even noise type (2) may be relevant, as many modern Ethernet chips will enter low-power mode only when the cable is unplugged (i.e. no link partner detected), so even an idling Ethernet connection (to switch or router) can be a source of noise. If you are using Aries in wireless mode it's best to avoid connecting to the Ethernet port.

[scan80269]

I'm currently running my Aries femto in wireless mode, connected to the dac via USB / Regen. As I understand it Aries downloads the whole file from the NAS or Tidal/Qobuz into the memory and plays it from there.

By the way, per Auralic:

 

Memory Cache function does not work under Internet Radio, AirPlay, Songcast, Bluetooth and Roon input method because of the data is streamed in real time from host device.

That leaves just music files stored in a NAS or an attached USB storage device playing from memory for Aries.

[Cebolla]

By the way, per Auralic:

 

Memory Cache function does not work under Internet Radio, AirPlay, Songcast, Bluetooth and Roon input method because of the data is streamed in real time from host device.

That leaves just music files stored in a NAS or an attached USB storage device playing from memory for Aries.

Not necessarily - the list from Auralic did not mention online music services, which are not the same as internet radio stations. For example, the audio file streams from Qobuz & Tidal are not real time and should be able to be streamed in a similar fashion to audio files from a UPnP/DLNA media server running on a NAS.

[Darock]

Yes, I have noticed that Aries is caching the files from Tidal in exactly the same way as from my NAS.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Computer Audiophile

[scan80269]

Not necessarily - the list from Auralic did not mention online music services, which are not the same as internet radio stations. For example, the audio file streams from Qobuz & Tidal are not real time and should be able to be streamed in a similar fashion to audio files from a UPnP/DLNA media server running on a NAS.

Thanks for the clarification. That would be cool.

 

I don't have a subscription to Tidal or Qobuz. It would be good if someone can verify Aries supporting memory playback with these music services. With Aries in wired mode, an Ethernet switch can be inserted between Aries and the internet source (router, etc.) and the buffering action of Aries memory playback can be observed on the switch via its activity LEDs. Depending on the internet service downstream speed and the music stream format (MP3, FLAC, etc.) there should be at least a few seconds of continuous network activity for each new track being buffered into Aries memory in memory play mode. The difference between a continuous real-time stream (e.g. internet radio) and an audio file stream (e.g. Tidal) should be quite easy to observe on an Ethernet switch.

[scan80269]

Yes, I have noticed that Aries is caching the files from Tidal in exactly the same way as from my NAS.

 

Thanks for the confirmation!

[Darock]

The buffering action of Aries memory playback is easy to observe using the Traffic Manager of the switch.

At least that is how I did it.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Computer Audiophile

[scan80269]

It should be possible to force 100Mbps speed without using a Fast Ethernet switch. An Ethernet cable can be modified by disconnecting at least one of the cable twisted pairs used at gigabit speed but not at 100Mbps. If done correctly this should prevent successful gigabit negotiation between switch and device so the link speed becomes 100Mbps. Insulating some of the contacts at the RJ-45 connectors of a cable may be easier than actually cutting the twisted pairs. I may try this myself to see how well it works.

I just achieved 100Mbps link rate between a PC motherboard gigabit Ethernet port and a Netgear GS108 gigabit Ethernet switch using a modified CAT5 cable. I used some superglue gel to insulate pins 4,5,7,8 of one RJ45 connector on the cable. The link speed as reported on the PC side and indicated on LEDs on the switch is now 100Mbps, whereas prior to this mod it was consistently 1Gbps.

 

It looks like the use of a Fast Ethernet (100Mbps) switch is not the only way to force Aries down to 100Mbps. A modified Ethernet cable with connectivity on two out of four twisted pairs can work as well.

 

I did notice that with this modified Ethernet cable the link negotiation took around 10 seconds to complete, whereas prior to the modification the cable took about a second to complete negotiation at gigabit speed. This may be because the ports on both PC and switch are inherently gigabit and will negotiate at this speed, but actual data transfer will fail at gigabit with the modified ("crippled") cable, and the fallback mechanism takes a while to lock in at 100Mbps.

[scan80269]

Here are some AC power consumption measurements for Aries Femto in various network configurations:

 

* Wireless 5GHz (high band): Playback: 11.4-12.3W, Track preload peak: 15.8W

* Wired Gigabit: Playback: 11.3-12.2W, Track preload peak: 15.4W

* Wired 100Mbps: Playback: 10.4-11.3W, Track preload peak: 14.2W

 

All power figures are AC side consumption as measured with a Kill-a-Watt meter and Aries Femto powered by Auralic LPS. The same 24/88 album from NAS was played in all configurations. Aries was power cycled for each selected network mode before measurements were taken. Power consumption fluctuated constantly (within 1 watt) and high network activity for track preloading lasted only a few seconds each time so I kept changing tracks to force Aries to spend more time preloading into memory for me to take the power readings.

 

Aries power consumption measured lowest in wired 100Mbps mode.

 

I also observed a few other things:

* Power consumption is highest in Standby mode (OLED displaying dim "Auralic"), more than any on/quiescent (non-playing) mode: up to 13.4W!

* OLED on vs. off power difference is within 0.2W

* In wireless mode, the wired Ethernet port appears off (link indicator on Aries RJ45 jack and Ethernet switch jack are both off), no power difference between Ethernet link partner present (cable plugged) vs. absent (cable unplugged) when in wireless mode

 

If one subscribes to the theory of lower device power consumption contributing to improved SQ, then running Aries in 100Mbps wired mode should deliver the best SQ among the possible networking configurations. The results of the most recent listening session with 100Mbps wired mode certainly agree with this.

 

I will further explore the 100Mbps wired configuration for Aries Femto using a modified "2x twisted-pair" Ethernet cable instead of inserting Fast Ethernet switch, and also the EN-70HD isolator.

[wanta911]

Thanks scan - great info!

 

I found a used FS105 v2 today so will try a comparison later, the EN-70HD will hopefully arrive next week.

 

I have a question: with all this tweaking you have done, have you felt that improved SQ has come at the expense of warmth at any stage? The reason I ask is that I have a colleague who's system I have heard on numerous occasions and he went crazy with tweaks, including linear power supplies for everything. I personally think he has gone too far and I find his setup to be now somewhat cold and sterile - yes stringed instruments sound great and separation/sound stage is really good but the bass is too dry for my taste with very little depth or extension.

[jim1961]

Good point Wanta. SQ most often gets lumped into one term where in actuality, SQ is the synthesis of many things.

 

When doing room acoustics, many times a gain in one area is at the expense of another. The same can be true in electronics.

 

Sometimes focusing on one aspect of the sound and doing everything to improve it leads to ignoring the rest. In my listening room, it has happened to me more than once. So I am always seeking the opinions of others.

[scan80269]

These recent tweaks have not resulted in loss of warmth in the sound. Some of the SQ changes my friend and I noticed are: thicker & more engaging vocals, deeper soundstage yet smaller (better defined) instrument and vocal sizing, longer reverb tails, more micro details and more prominent bass (e.g. cellos and double basses heard more clearly in orchestral recordings). If anything, many of the vocal recordings sounded somewhat warmer and more lively than before, and the emotions in the performances came through more clearly.

 

My friend and I regularly attend orchestral performances at a local concert hall with great acoustics, partly to help calibrate our ears. We believe we have good sonic memory of what a real live orchestra sounds like, and our goal has been to make our systems sound like a good concert hall as much as possible. Until recently, my friend's system produced treble & upper midrange (e.g. violin) sounds that were perceived as louder, brighter and more edgy than what we heard in the concert hall, but lately the realism of the sound has been stepped up to another level. Overall tonal balance got darker and more closely matching the concert hall sound, i.e. more realistic overall. My friend's wife recently commented that their home system sound has become quite concert hall-like. So I would say there was really no perception of the sound being cold and sterile (or even analytical). These SQ gains have been most gratifying for us.

 

My friend has also recently added several sound-absorbing foam panels into his listening area. The panels were mostly applied to the back wall behind the listening chairs. This was something my friend had wanted to do for a long time, as he heard some unnatural sound bouncing within the room especially at higher listening levels, that affected sonic imaging and clarity. The panels by themselves yielded SQ improvements separate from all the tweaks to the system. The descriptions above included both physical and electrical tweaks as a whole.

[wanta911]

These recent tweaks have not resulted in loss of warmth in the sound. Some of the SQ changes my friend and I noticed are: thicker & more engaging vocals, deeper soundstage yet smaller (better defined) instrument and vocal sizing, longer reverb tails, more micro details and more prominent bass (e.g. cellos and double basses heard more clearly in orchestral recordings). If anything, many of the vocal recordings sounded somewhat warmer and more lively than before, and the emotions in the performances came through more clearly.

 

My friend and I regularly attend orchestral performances at a local concert hall with great acoustics, partly to help calibrate our ears. We believe we have good sonic memory of what a real live orchestra sounds like, and our goal has been to make our systems sound like a good concert hall as much as possible. Until recently, my friend's system produced treble & upper midrange (e.g. violin) sounds that were perceived as louder, brighter and more edgy than what we heard in the concert hall, but lately the realism of the sound has been stepped up to another level. Overall tonal balance got darker and more closely matching the concert hall sound, i.e. more realistic overall. My friend's wife recently commented that their home system sound has become quite concert hall-like. So I would say there was really no perception of the sound being cold and sterile (or even analytical). These SQ gains have been most gratifying for us.

 

My friend has also recently added several sound-absorbing foam panels into his listening area. The panels were mostly applied to the back wall behind the listening chairs. This was something my friend had wanted to do for a long time, as he heard some unnatural sound bouncing within the room especially at higher listening levels, that affected sonic imaging and clarity. The panels by themselves yielded SQ improvements separate from all the tweaks to the system. The descriptions above included both physical and electrical tweaks as a whole.

 

Thanks for the response!

 

I concur with the merit of treatments on the rear wall, I have had Vicoustic Cinema Round Premium acoustic panels on the wall behind the LP for a couple of years now. Absolutely essential if you don't have a big open space behind you, my LP is approx. 1.2 metres from the wall.

 

I have now installed a 2nd Netgear R7000 as a wireless bridge receiving dedicated 5G from the main router with the only ethernet out being to the Aries via a BJC 6A 2ft cable and it sounds pretty damn good. I think this is definitely an improvement over wifi, it just seems more focussed.

 

I also tried the FS105 V2 using my 22 year old "golden-ears" son as the test subject after I struggled to hear any clear cut gains, I have learned that if he doesn't hear a difference then there is a very good chance that there isn't one. His conclusion was that perhaps there was a bit more clarity on mids/highs on some tracks but nothing he would call definitive. In a way I am relieved as the last thing I need is another powered option in my setup. I have read in another thread that you felt that the V3 was better than the V2 but at this stage I think I will just see how the EMO goes when it arrives and perhaps even look at passively choking down to 100mbps after you have done all your testing and sent me the detailed instructions (LOL)

[MrUnderhill]

....but things changed after one tweak: adding a Jensen balanced transformer to the Vega balanced analog outputs. USB used to sound brighter along with a bit more treble harshness vs. AES-EBU but not after the Jensen transformer was added.

 

Thanks for this, something I am wrestling with. I have just dropped a friend who works in pro-audio and email to see if I can borrow a transformer tomorrow!

 

M

[scan80269]

Thanks for this, something I am wrestling with. I have just dropped a friend who works in pro-audio and email to see if I can borrow a transformer tomorrow!

 

M

My friend and I are using Jensen PI-2XX transformers with our Vega DACs.

[scan80269]

I also tried the FS105 V2 using my 22 year old "golden-ears" son as the test subject after I struggled to hear any clear cut gains, I have learned that if he doesn't hear a difference then there is a very good chance that there isn't one. His conclusion was that perhaps there was a bit more clarity on mids/highs on some tracks but nothing he would call definitive. In a way I am relieved as the last thing I need is another powered option in my setup. I have read in another thread that you felt that the V3 was better than the V2 but at this stage I think I will just see how the EMO goes when it arrives and perhaps even look at passively choking down to 100mbps after you have done all your testing and sent me the detailed instructions (LOL)

 

I actually don't have a FS105 v2. The comparison was between FS105 v3 and original FS105, which has a lower DC input voltage (7.5V) and a different AC adapter (much larger).

 

The other day I opened up my FS105 v3 and found a small switching regulator circuit powering the Realtek 5-port switch IC. I'm a bit tempted to look into replacing that switcher with a small linear regulator as another tweak to determine if the system SQ can be further improved.