mac_and_dac Posted July 16, 2016 Share Posted July 16, 2016 Hi there. Are any of you capable people able to explain to me the science behind cable burn-in? I can hear the difference between different cables, however I don't remember a cable of mine ever changing its nature over time, be it a cheap cable or any of my more expensive cables. Perhaps the impedance changes? TIA mac_and_dac Front End: Neet Airstream Digital Processing: Chord Hugo M-Scaler DAC: Chord Dave Amplification: Cyrus Mono x300 Signatures Speakers: Kudos Titan T88 Link to comment
sandyk Posted July 16, 2016 Share Posted July 16, 2016 I can hear the difference between different cables, however I don't remember a cable of mine ever changing its nature over time, be it a cheap cable or any of my more expensive cables. Likewise. How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file. PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020 Link to comment
alfe Posted July 16, 2016 Share Posted July 16, 2016 Hi there. Are any of you capable people able to explain to me the science behind cable burn-in? TIA mac_and_dac Some will say it's due to analog jitter, others that when the electrons get hot they run faster but in any case the subjectivists are going to get upset in this thread:) Link to comment
Solstice380 Posted July 16, 2016 Share Posted July 16, 2016 The Second Law of Thermodynamics states that the entropy of an isolated system always increases. As cables age you eventually won't be able to tell you are listening to music! Too much jitter. [emoji41] https://audiophilestyle.com/profile/21384-solstice380/?tab=field_core_pfield_3 Link to comment
booaaaa777 Posted July 16, 2016 Share Posted July 16, 2016 Measure the frequency response and the rt60 before and after 200 hours?? Link to comment
Hifilover1979 Posted July 16, 2016 Share Posted July 16, 2016 More snake oil Sir?! It's balls if you ask me, just plug them in and play music... Simples! Music source: 2012 i7 Mac Mini running (16GB RAM/1.25TB FusionDrive) > USB into a Presonus AudioBox iOne interface > JBL LSR305s Link to comment
mansr Posted July 16, 2016 Share Posted July 16, 2016 Hi there. Are any of you capable people able to explain to me the science behind cable burn-in? I can hear the difference between different cables, however I don't remember a cable of mine ever changing its nature over time, be it a cheap cable or any of my more expensive cables. Perhaps the impedance changes? TIA mac_and_dac There is no science in support of cable burn-in. It's also interesting that among the believers there are multiple contradictory claims being made about the nature of burn-in. Some of them must be wrong. Link to comment
Speedskater Posted July 16, 2016 Share Posted July 16, 2016 There is no consistency among the believers, nor respectability or reproducibility. While the believers are eager to write about their position, seldom do they demonstrate the differences that they hear. Link to comment
sphinxsix Posted July 16, 2016 Share Posted July 16, 2016 Everything is a subject of burn-in process. I've even noticed my cheap alarm clock display become brighter and its sound warmer after a couple of weeks of usage. Why would cables be an exception.? Link to comment
mansr Posted July 16, 2016 Share Posted July 16, 2016 Everything is a subject of burn-in process. I've even noticed my cheap alarm clock display become brighter and its sound warmer after a couple of weeks of usage. Why would cables be an exception.? Is it a Tice clock? Link to comment
sphinxsix Posted July 16, 2016 Share Posted July 16, 2016 Is it a Tice clock? Yep. But SE version With Shun Mook Mpingo resting on it.. Which makes a difference (but not a scientifical one) If someone is interested and haven't heard of: Shun Mook Audio, Inc. Link to comment
diggle Posted July 16, 2016 Share Posted July 16, 2016 Everything is a subject of burn-in process. Agreed on that. Though some people tend to be a subject of a burn out process.. Among many audio accessories I tested for burn-in changes only Shun Mook Mpingo stuff worked perfectly straight out of the box! Ps. My first post so hello everybody Link to comment
Sam Lord Posted July 17, 2016 Share Posted July 17, 2016 It's mostly about the behavior of the dielectrics. This paper gives a description of how some common dielectrics age: http://www.jeffjournal.org/papers/Volume8/JEFF8-03-16.E.Suljovrujic.pdf Cardas explains the burn-in phenomenon in simpler terms: Insights - Cable Break-in You can find all the material you need online. Mac Mini 2012 with 2.3 GHz i5 CPU and 16GB RAM running newest OS10.9x and Signalyst HQ Player software (occasionally JRMC), ethernet to Cisco SG100-08 GigE switch, ethernet to SOtM SMS100 Miniserver in audio room, sending via short 1/2 meter AQ Cinnamon USB to Oppo 105D, feeding balanced outputs to 2x Bel Canto S300 amps which vertically biamp ATC SCM20SL speakers, 2x Velodyne DD12+ subs. Each side is mounted vertically on 3-tiered Sound Anchor ADJ2 stands: ATC (top), amp (middle), sub (bottom), Mogami, Koala, Nordost, Mosaic cables, split at the preamp outputs with splitters. All transducers are thoroughly and lovingly time aligned for the listening position. Link to comment
alfe Posted July 17, 2016 Share Posted July 17, 2016 It's mostly about the behavior of the dielectrics. This paper gives a description of how some common dielectrics age: www.jeffjournal.org/papers/Volume8/JEFF8-03-16.E.Suljovrujic.pdf You realise that this paper is about polymers ? Link to comment
hornytoad Posted July 17, 2016 Share Posted July 17, 2016 I burn my cables in with a blow torch . Link to comment
anji12305 Posted July 17, 2016 Share Posted July 17, 2016 You realise that this paper is about polymers ? The insulation used between conductors is normally an extruded polymer like Teflon. Some of the more complicated cable designs exhibit significant capacitance which cause odd amplifier behavior at frequency extremes. I liken this pursuit to putting gold plated 20" rims on a Mazda 3. https://passlabs.com/articles/speaker-cables-science-or-snake-oil Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk Link to comment
alfe Posted July 17, 2016 Share Posted July 17, 2016 The insulation used between conductors is normally an extruded polymer like Teflon. And? Link to comment
sandyk Posted July 17, 2016 Share Posted July 17, 2016 Some of the more complicated cable designs exhibit significant capacitance which cause odd amplifier behavior at frequency extremes. How is a few weeks of playing music through such a cable going to reduce the capacitance for the better ? Well designed solid state amplifiers have Zobel Output networks (L, C and R) to reduce problems such as this. How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file. PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020 Link to comment
anji12305 Posted July 17, 2016 Share Posted July 17, 2016 And? We can explain the fundamental concepts, but can't understand it to you. Perhaps you will consider reading the linked source materials. Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk Link to comment
anji12305 Posted July 17, 2016 Share Posted July 17, 2016 How is a few weeks of playing music through such a cable going to reduce the capacitance for the better ?Well designed solid state amplifiers have Zobel Output networks (L, C and R) to reduce problems such as this. It is unlikely that any 'treatment' will make a measurable change that is detectable above the noise floor of most home audio systems. Belief that something like this works falls in the category of unfalsifiable claims that operate as a 'Math Tax' on the overly credulous. It bears mentioning that a good value for money can be found through Blue Jeans cable which eschews the sort of prattle accompanying mega buck cables. https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/tools/lp/Bo/LogicalFallacies/178/Unfalsifiability Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk Link to comment
Tugsay Posted July 17, 2016 Share Posted July 17, 2016 Whenever you buy a new product like cables, your mind and all your senses will open with your ears to undertand the difference in music. You are far away from listening to music, this is the illness of being audiophile. You quit listening to music and enjoying it, its far away from enjoying, just listen to what you hear, what changed. After some time passed and you forget how much money you spend to that cable, and you forget the music you had listened before that cable come to your system, than the burning process finishes. Your system begins to play some music and you enjoy it. Human ability of hearing can be change time to time. After a hard working day you hear different, or sleeping well and make your breakfast and after that your hear different. Don't get me wrong, I'm also subjectivist, I can hear the differences of usb cables and much more in my system. I also believe that cables have burn-in times. Because I like this hobby this way and I want to buy new stuff and feel the differences. Is there any changes in music after burn-in. I think yes there is... Link to comment
alfe Posted July 17, 2016 Share Posted July 17, 2016 We can explain the fundamental concepts, but can't understand it to you. Please explain me the fundamental concept, I'm always open for the next generation science. Perhaps you will consider reading the linked source materials. In your link I don't see any burn-in period. Link to comment
anji12305 Posted July 17, 2016 Share Posted July 17, 2016 Please explain me the fundamental concept, I'm always open for the next generation science. In your link I don't see any burn-in period. The problem with trolling is bycatch. RTFM Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk Link to comment
alfe Posted July 17, 2016 Share Posted July 17, 2016 The problem with trolling is bycatch. RTFM Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk So if I ask about the relation between teflon and burn-in, I'm a troll?? Link to comment
mansr Posted July 17, 2016 Share Posted July 17, 2016 So if I ask about the relation between teflon and burn-in, I'm a troll?? I suspect anji12305 might be trolling. Link to comment
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now