Building with the HDPlex 300W ATX Linear PSU

[Possum Jenkins]

If his engineer is so sure it was the ppa card I doubt he would be paying compensation plus they are now adding a protective circuit? Hmmmmm....

[ElviaCaprice]

I have been communicating with Larry from HDPlex regarding this issue. He asked that I present his thoughts on what happened. First of all, he will be compensating Elvia for his PPA. Secondly, here is response about the adjustable output:

 

His PPA card for some reason fried my adjustable output internal circuit. Once the internal circuit is damaged. The adjustable output will output 30V.

So on the surface, it looks to him that the adjustable output fried his PPA card.

But my engineer does not think it is our 300W who cause this.

We will also add a protective circuit for this adjustable output. Once it is damaged, it will only output 5V at Max.

Currently all other output has two way OCP And OVP. It is very difficult to add OCP and OVP for adjustable output since the output value is not fixed.

I am not an electrical engineer but I am not sure how the PPA could have caused the adjustable output board to get damaged? Can anyone explain if this is possible? Other than that, I know its still a pain but its great to hear that Larry will take care of things.

 

I never said Larry wasn't going to compensate me, great service. But again it's time and inconvenience that is just as bad.

That's crazy to suggest the PPA card damaged the power supply. It doesn't generate any power. Paul Pang warns about sending to much voltage to the PPA card and damaging it. I think 30V classifies as too much.

The card was working fine before the the power supply adjustable blew. Oh yeah, the Intona also was done in at the same time. Unfortunately it draws power directly from the PPA cards 5V input from power source via USB, in this case the ATX HDPlex.

What did Larry say about the over voltage on the 5V output?

[sandyk]

The card was working fine before the the power supply adjustable blew. Oh yeah, the Intona also was done in at the same time. Unfortunately it draws power directly from the PPA cards 5V input from power source via USB, in this case the ATX HDPlex.

What did Larry say about the over voltage on the 5V output?

 

 

Say the combined load on this +5V rail was 1Amp. In this case the voltage regulator would be dissipating 25 Watts of heat (!!!) going by the supplied measurements .

I am not surprised that it eventually self destructed. It's never a good idea to have such a high voltage drop across a voltage regulator unless you are drawing not much more than 100mA.

Just because you can adjust a voltage regulator's output down from say +27V to +5V doesn't mean you should. Very few PSU designs would have an Input/output differential of more than 10V, with <5V more optimum where possible, in order to reduce heat sinking requirements.

[ElviaCaprice]

Say the combined load on this +5V rail was 1Amp. In this case the voltage regulator would be dissipating 25 Watts of heat (!!!) going by the supplied measurements .

I am not surprised that it eventually self destructed. It's never a good idea to have such a high voltage drop across a voltage regulator unless you are drawing not much more than 100mA.

Just because you can adjust a voltage regulator's output down from say +27V to +5V doesn't mean you should. Very few PSU designs would have an Input/output differential of more than 10V, with <5V more optimum where possible, in order to reduce heat sinking requirements.

 

Hear what you say, Sandy. But to be fair to HDPlex, it has one big heat sink system. I don't know how it all works, guess your going to have to see the design or schematic to judge fairly.

If Larry fixes that adjustable output so it fail safes to 5V, that's good enough for me. I would still like to see the 5V set output on the ATX and DC fixed to be in acceptable range of +/- .25V.

 

When these two things can be fixed I'll happily recommend the 300W ATX HDPlex at that time. But this will take a few months. Until then I'm in limbo and making compromises. I'm still thinking it may be better to power everything separately and quite trying to find the one unit solution. 4 linear power supplies. One ATX 24pin, one 12V for CPU, two 5V for USB card and OS SSD.

[sandyk]

Hear what you say, Sandy. But to be fair to HDPlex, it has one big heat sink system. I don't know how it all works, guess your going to have to see the design or schematic to judge fairly.

 

Under the load conditions that I mentioned, there is the possibility of a substantial difference in temperature between the internals of the voltage regulator and the heatsink, partly due to the mounting methods used, such as an insulating washer. Many amplifiers have failed due to even a slightly loose device mounting screw.

It simply isn't good practice to have such a high voltage difference between the input and output voltages with a relatively high current loading.

You could always seek out a comment/2nd opinion from the ever helpful John Swenson on this issue ?

 

Regards

Alex

[rossb]

I've just returned my HD Plex PSU. I emailed Larry about the problems I was having, and he offered me a full refund plus shipping costs.

 

While The PSU did not quite work out, Larry was excellent to deal with and provides great customer service. Unfortunately, in this case, the product just needed a bit more work before it was released.

[tboooe]

I've just returned my HD Plex PSU. I emailed Larry about the problems I was having, and he offered me a full refund plus shipping costs.

 

While The PSU did not quite work out, Larry was excellent to deal with and provides great customer service. Unfortunately, in this case, the product just needed a bit more work before it was released.

 

Was your only issue it getting very hot?

[rossb]

No, it also shut down my PC several times with the bios reporting unstable voltage. As a separate matter, it sounded noticeably worse than my conventional ATX PSU.

[sandyk]

If Larry fixes that adjustable output so it fail safes to 5V, that's good enough for me.

 

BTW, that is unlikely to be possible. You will probably end up with ALL output voltage removed, on this output at least.

[tboooe]

I've just returned my HD Plex PSU. I emailed Larry about the problems I was having, and he offered me a full refund plus shipping costs.

 

While The PSU did not quite work out, Larry was excellent to deal with and provides great customer service. Unfortunately, in this case, the product just needed a bit more work before it was released.

Sorry it didnt work out for you. My HDPlex has worked just fine since I got it. My only slight issue is a high pitched sound coming from the unit which I can hear when I am about 1-3" away. Not really a big deal buy Larry offered to replace a "PCB board" that he believes may be causing the problem. He also agreed to try and adjust the 5V output to make it closer to spec. As you and others have mentioned, Larry is great to deal with.

[ElviaCaprice]

No, it also shut down my PC several times with the bios reporting unstable voltage. As a separate matter, it sounded noticeably worse than my conventional ATX PSU.

 

I agree, that voltage is calibrated too high. Especially for me here running at 122 Volts AC. That 5V ATX is way to hot and causes my picture feed to flicker. When I use the breakout ATX 250W board from the 19V DC output, I don't have that problem.

Also I have a digital glare in my audio that I think also can be attributed to the ATX over voltage, not nearly as bad with the break out board. I'm going to get ahold of Larry here and see what can be done. As it stands now, I think I'm better off with anything but the 300W ATX LPSU.

[tboooe]

I'm going to get ahold of Larry here and see what can be done. As it stands now, I think I'm better off with anything but the 300W ATX LPSU.

Larry told me he can adjust the voltage a bit to have them more in spec. For me, it was only the 5v output that was a little high at 5.35V. All other voltages were within 1-2%.

[ElviaCaprice]

I just checked and I was getting occasional flickering with the ATX 250 break out board also. So it may be heat related with the motherboard. Arggg, it's tough to try and attribute problems with so many new different components. I'll have to do some more testing.

[Dev]

I don't have the ATX version but the regular 100w. the 5v on mine reads 5.21v which is more than 4%. I have connected them to SSD and PPA USB card which are spec'ed at 5v. Any idea if its too detrimental to the SQ ?

[sandyk]

I don't have the ATX version but the regular 100w. the 5v on mine reads 5.21v which is more than 4%. I have connected them to SSD and PPA USB card which are spec'ed at 5v. Any idea if its too detrimental to the SQ ?

 

Is that at idle ?

When loaded it is likely to drop a little anyway. I wouldn't be concerned with 5.21v,assuming that this is an accurate reading.

[Dev]

Is that at idle ?

When loaded it is likely to drop a little anyway. I wouldn't be concerned with 5.21v,assuming that this is an accurate reading.

 

Thanks sandyk. Yes, the measurements are at idle. any idea how much typically they are suppose to drop under load ?

[sandyk]

Thanks sandyk. Yes, the measurements are at idle. any idea how much typically they are suppose to drop under load ?

 

I can't give a definite answer to that one, as it depends on many factors, including the type of voltage regulator used. Normally you would expect much less than 100mV with a well designed PSU that is matched to the load requirements.

Some may drop only several mV.

[ElviaCaprice]

Update on my HDPlex 300 build. I've found the biggest culprit of my flickering issues to be the motherboard itself. After making some Bios setting changes, I've managed to get a much more stable system, eliminating any flickering. Also making some further optimization to Windows 10 Pro has eliminated much of my electrical gleam. I now think if I can get Larry to fix the 5V output of the HDPlex to be within ATX standards, I will have a fantastic system. Along with replacing the PPA USB card. Sounds good right now with just the Mobo USB and an Intona Industrial feeding a Regen (JKenny mod).

Everything makes a difference.

[Audiophile Neuroscience]

Hi All

 

My 300W HDPlex LPSU runs very hot when in use playing music or video (so is that "under load"?). When the server is on but nothing playing the LPSU is hot. Whether "very hot" or "hot" I can keep my hand on it and it is not as hot as my pure class A gear. When the server is shut down, the LPSU runs cool to slightly warm IIRC (is that idle mode?)

 

I don’t think there was much change in heat generation after I powered the REGEN @ 7V from the variable 7V-19V DC supply. The Sound of the REGEN improved significantly. Prior to the LPSU I had removed the REGEN as I was not convinced it was contributing a net improvement, less glare but a bit duller and squished dynamics. With the HDPlex powering the REGEN it gave richer fuller mids, more liquid and if anything small improvements elsewhere, not trade-offs.

 

Frightened by this thread, I have stopped using the variable HDPlex output and removed the REGEN !

 

Alex (SandyK) and other esteemed electronics gurus

 

1) I will get a multimeter and test the outputs just as soon as I figure out how to do this, lol. "Measured at idle", is that server off? And "during start up" of the server, or do you mean start up of the LPSU? Are you expecting a surge here and what is acceptable?

At Idle should I expect no more than the "ATX spec for +/- .25V". Actually Larry's specs state for the variable (7-19V) and fixed 5V, an output tolerance of 2% (and 2 mV ripple). Full specs here, HDPLEX Fanless 300W ATX Linear Power Supply with Modular ATX Output

 

2) Why do you think ElviaCaprice's Variable output "shorted"? I kinda get overheating and frying but why shorting?

BTW @ Elvia, why did you hook up the PPA card to the 7V-19V variable output? Does not Paul Pang say only 5V or you will burn his card? I know you were only outputting 5V from the 7V-19V variable but why did you not choose the 5V fixed DC rail? The question is not a criticism, I know far too little about electronics to be critical.

 

3) You mentioned "When a series regulator goes short circuit it can also damage the device connected to it." For Elvia this meant his attached PPA card. For me it would be the REGEN. HOWEVER, my question is could it go beyond the first device and damage the DAC? Kalliope's do not come cheap!

 

4) You mentioned "such a huge voltage drop across the regulator when under more than a light load". I understand (kinda) the drop from 19V to 7V for the variable output but how did you calculate 25 Watts of heat dissipation for the fixed 5V atx rail if the combined load on this +5V rail was 1Amp ?

 

5) If not in use, should the variable output be turned all the way up to 19V to minimize voltage drop, or does it make no difference since it is not under load?

 

6) The failsafe of the variable reverting to 5V if the regulator burns out seems like a good idea. Why do you think this is unlikely to be possible? Even if all output is removed, as you say, this is I guess preferable to 30V as the default output. BTW where the heck does "30V" come from if the max output of the variable is 19V?

 

Cheers

David

 

[ElviaCaprice]

Hi David,

 

The HDPlex 300 was updated recently which allows the variable output greater range. Reason I powered my PPA USB card with the variable ouput was because the fixed DC 5V output was running too hot at 5.42V, when measured. I reasoned this could be a problem for the PPA USB card. I used the fixed DC 5V output to power my SSD drive. Obviously this ended up being a mistake, but who knew that the fixed output could blow out and put out 30V, thus destroying the PPA card and the Intona powered by it. Note: After the Intona, my USB chain excludes the power pin. So to answer your question about endangering your DAC via the Regen being powered by the variable output? As long as your not powering the DAC with the 5V output from the Regen and you eliminated the 5V pin, you should be good. Otherwise, who knows???

[Audiophile Neuroscience]

Hi Elvia

The HDPlex 300 was updated recently which allows the variable output greater range.

I didnt know that. Perhaps not a good thing, in hindsight. Curiously his spec page still says 7V-19V.

 

Reason I powered my PPA USB card with the variable ouput was because the fixed DC 5V output was running too hot at 5.42V, when measured. I reasoned this could be a problem for the PPA USB card.

 

What was the measured output from the "5V" variable ?

 

I used the fixed DC 5V output to power my SSD drive. Obviously this ended up being a mistake, but who knew that the fixed output could blow out and put out 30V, thus destroying the PPA card and the Intona powered by it.

Dont you mean the variable output, the one you had the PPA attached, blew out to 30V?

 

Note: After the Intona, my USB chain excludes the power pin. So to answer your question about endangering your DAC via the Regen being powered by the variable output? As long as your not powering the DAC with the 5V output from the Regen and you eliminated the 5V pin, you should be good. Otherwise, who knows???

My DAC doesnt need the 5V to power the usb input circuitry but not sure what power is passed on by the REGEN to the DAC.Its an interesting point , whether the DAC needs the 5V or not, what power does the REGEN pass on to the DAC. Also, does using a data only cable from the pc to the REGEN protect both the REGEN and the DAC if the usb card shorts?

 

Addit: I use the hard adapter between REGEN and DAC. I suppose if i used a usb cable I could disconnect the +5V pin

 

 

As an aside Paul Pang doesnt recommend disconnecting the 5v bus power.No idea why.....

Paul PangSeptember 4, 2014 at 6:14 AM

I strongly recommend to keep the original power of the usb port,

Even your device need no 5V power supply from usb port..

jazzymanNovember 29, 2015 at 5:29 AM

Why?

I'm thinking of buying the V2, but don't need the 5v bus power.

Does the card work properly (-5v) if i don't power it with 5v LPS?

In other words, is the card taking power from pcie to operated and uses the 5v external power only for usb bus?

[ElviaCaprice]

Variable output is just that, what do you want it to ouput? When measured it was close to that indicated digitally by the HDPlex. Of course now that it blew out, it only outputs about 30V, still indicated by the digital readings and my own measurements.

Variable output powered the PPA card which in turn powered the Intona. I had it set at 5.04V.

 

5V fixed output powered the SSD. Readings we're between 5.37V and 5.42V. That means the ATX 5V is also running too hot. Which I also measured to confirm the same values as the fixed output.

 

The Regen regenerates a new clean 5V which it passes on. If your DAC doesn't power from the 5V USB or doesn't need to see it, then by all means just tape over the 5V lead pin on the adapter going into the Regen, to test. If it all works, take a hog nose pliers and pull out the pin, just to be safe.

If your powering the Regen from the HDPlex variable output, then all bets off if it blows. Guarantee it will at least take out the Regen.

 

Note: I use a 3.3V Lipo4 battery to power my Regen. See JKenny battery mod.

[Audiophile Neuroscience]

Hi Elvia and thanks

Variable output ... When measured it was close to that indicated digitally by the HDPlex.

Good to know this at least was accurate

.

 

 

The Regen regenerates a new clean 5V which it passes on. If your DAC doesn't power from the 5V USB or doesn't need to see it, then by all means just tape over the 5V lead pin on the adapter going into the Regen, to test. If it all works, take a hog nose pliers and pull out the pin, just to be safe.

If your powering the Regen from the HDPlex variable output, then all bets off if it blows. Guarantee it will at least take out the Regen.

 

Note: I use a 3.3V Lipo4 battery to power my Regen. See JKenny battery mod.

 

Good to know,thanks again

[sandyk]

Hi David

I would get our mutual friend, and fellow C.A. member "RFP" and possibly myself too, to bring along an accurate DMM and check out your PSU. It is not unusual behaviour for an overheated discrete type series voltage regulator to go short circuit and apply it's full input voltage to the load. Most I.C. type voltage regulators virtually shut down with severe overheating or a s/c at their output.

Personally, I would never have set the output voltage to as low as +5V where the input to the regulator is around +30V , unless the load was only a couple of hundred mA maximum, and not a continuous load either.

If you need to have a quite low voltage output from a high voltage input, it is better to use a series Pre-regulator to share the heat dissipation.

 

Kind Regards

Alex

[Audiophile Neuroscience]

I would never have set the output voltage to as low as +5V where the input to the regulator is around +30V , unless the load was only a couple of hundred mA maximum, and not a continuous load either.

Thanks Alex. So the input is 30V, not 19V being the upper range of is output, because it defaults to 30V if fried?