Basic Synology Upnp DLNA questions

[Cebolla]

I tried Lumin but it seemed to require a Lumin device to act as the renderer. I don't have one. I today installed Kinsky, which does not require Linn devices to be the renderer. It has been finding the Synology Media Server today and this evening, which is a good sign. It hasn't yet shown Minimserver or LMS on its server list, but I am not too shook up about that because the Synology Media Server has been available since I installed Kinsky.

Lumin does not need a Lumin device to work. Something else is missing.

Correct, but the Lumin app only works with OpenHome (aka UPnP with Linn extensions) supporting renderers, not standard UPnP/DLNA ones.

 

The thing that's 'missing' as far as the OP is concerned is to create an (emulated) OpenHome renderer for every required standard UPnP/DLNA renderer on the network, using the BubbleUPnP Server helper software already installed on his NAS. BubbleUPnP Server's OpenHome renderer creation function is available on the Media Renderers tab of its web browser UI.

 

Another OpenHome control point app to try is Linn Kazoo. BTW, the Linn Kinsky app supports both OpenHome & standard UPnP/DLNA streamers. However, Linn have not updated it for several years, so it can be quite buggy to use with some standard UPnP/DLNA renderers and its support of OpenHome doesn't include later features such as TIDAL & Qobuz access.

[jcn3]

mike,

 

i was just doing this over the weekend and found it a bit confusing. my goal was to be able to use linn kazoo because of the ui, so i needed openhome capability.

 

here's what worked for me:

 

on the synology nas:

* install minimserver

* install bubbleupnp server

* make sure both are running

 

on the computer serving as the renderer:

* make sure it is configured to function as a dlna/upnp renderer. in my case, i'm using foobar2000 on a caps v3 (win10). if you're running linux, the settings are different, but the concepts are the same.

* install bubbleupnp server. go into the configuration page under media servers (make sure mimimserver is available) and media renderers (check "create an open home renderer" for your renderer)

 

on the ipad

* install your control point software. i downloaded both lumin and linn kazoo (i like kazoo better)

* in the apps, go into settings and select minimserver for the media server

* you should see your renderer in both

 

i was getting messed up because i didn't have the renderer set up right (i didn't realize my caps v3 needed to have bubbleupnp server installed on it).

 

hope that helps.

 

jim

 

btw -- i spent time messing around with firewalls and ports, too. none of that was the issue for me.

[sbank]

For anyone trying similar using a Mac to run OpenHome Player as a renderer, be sure that your NAS drive containing the music library is mounted on the Mac or the control point software (i.e. Kazoo or Lumin) won't be able to see the library.

 

Jim, LOL, I tried both and enjoy Lumin much more than Kazoo. When I replace my MacMini with a microRendu Lumin will be my #1 control point. Dif strokes...

[MikeJazz]

 

Jim, LOL, I tried both and enjoy Lumin much more than Kazoo. When I replace my MacMini with a microRendu Lumin will be my #1 control point. Dif strokes...

 

I have to be thankful to Lumin guys that kept it working even on an iPAD of first generation. How cool is that?

 

just another note, now Kazoo is also available in Android. But in that environment I think Bubble DS Next is simply more functional (more practical GUI) and with some cool integrations (musicmatch to display lyrics).

[jcn3]

now what i want is a way to play internet radio. anyone figured that out? kazoo documentation mentions that capability but it must require a linn ds.

[jcn3]

For anyone trying similar using a Mac to run OpenHome Player as a renderer, be sure that your NAS drive containing the music library is mounted on the Mac or the control point software (i.e. Kazoo or Lumin) won't be able to see the library.

 

Jim, LOL, I tried both and enjoy Lumin much more than Kazoo. When I replace my MacMini with a microRendu Lumin will be my #1 control point. Dif strokes...

 

i understand where you're coming from. i think lumin uses the screen real estate more efficiency. kazoo just seems a little more intuitive to me (but does require regular use of the back button).

 

nice to have good choices!

[Mike Rubin]

mike,

 

i was just doing this over the weekend and found it a bit confusing. my goal was to be able to use linn kazoo because of the ui, so i needed openhome capability.

 

here's what worked for me:

 

on the synology nas:

* install minimserver

* install bubbleupnp server

* make sure both are running

 

on the computer serving as the renderer:

* make sure it is configured to function as a dlna/upnp renderer. in my case, i'm using foobar2000 on a caps v3 (win10). if you're running linux, the settings are different, but the concepts are the same.

* install bubbleupnp server. go into the configuration page under media servers (make sure mimimserver is available) and media renderers (check "create an open home renderer" for your renderer)

 

on the ipad

* install your control point software. i downloaded both lumin and linn kazoo (i like kazoo better)

* in the apps, go into settings and select minimserver for the media server

* you should see your renderer in both

 

i was getting messed up because i didn't have the renderer set up right (i didn't realize my caps v3 needed to have bubbleupnp server installed on it).

 

hope that helps.

 

jim

 

btw -- i spent time messing around with firewalls and ports, too. none of that was the issue for me.

 

Thanks for this. I had BubbleUPnP running but disabled it, finally, because the Android apps didn't need it once I turned off the firewall and it didn't help on the iPad, even when I created an OpenHome player.

 

I downloaded and installed Kazoo this morning. It's still searching for "rooms" now. I am pretty sure that this isn't going to be something that I am going to spend a lot more time playing with.

 

Kinsky sees enough of the servers on my system that it's not a huge issue getting the NAS content to the Fire TV Stick or the iPad from the computer-based DLNA servers. My interest in getting the Synology visible really is more a matter of ensuring that it's operating properly and allowing me the option to use a local server in the rare event my computer is down or goes offline.

[jcn3]

Thanks for this. I had BubbleUPnP running but disabled it, finally, because the Android apps didn't need it once I turned off the firewall and it didn't help on the iPad, even when I created an OpenHome player.

 

I downloaded and installed Kazoo this morning. It's still searching for "rooms" now. I am pretty sure that this isn't going to be something that I am going to spend a lot more time playing with.

 

Kinsky sees enough of the servers on my system that it's not a huge issue getting the NAS content to the Fire TV Stick or the iPad from the computer-based DLNA servers. My interest in getting the Synology visible really is more a matter of ensuring that it's operating properly and allowing me the option to use a local server in the rare event my computer is down or goes offline.

 

if it doesn't see your renderer as a room in Kazoo then you don't have the renderer set up properly as OpenHome. Is Bubbleupnp running on the renderer?

[Mike Rubin]

if it doesn't see your renderer as a room in Kazoo then you don't have the renderer set up properly as OpenHome. Is Bubbleupnp running on the renderer?

 

According to the BubbleUpnp Server running on the Synology, each of the renderers has "create an open home renderer" checked. However, BubbleUpnp is not installed on any of the renderers other than the Android ones, which don't need to be open home because they have been seeing the Synology Media server just fine after I turned off the firewall.

 

I have no idea how to install BubbleUpnp on the Fire TV Stick, my Vortexbox, and my Squeezebox Touch. I guess there's no way that those are open home renderers despite the box in BubbleUpnp Server being checked?

[Mike Rubin]

Kazoo, for about two minutes, discovered my servers and one of my renderers, before losing contact with both. I can understand its appeal. It's really a beautiful interface.

[jcn3]

mike -- i wonder if @bubblegumm can help out. as you can tell, i'm limited in my knowledge of this . . . .

 

while i got stuff working, i wonder if anyone can help me out. when i'm on the main menu in my synology nas and click on bubbleupnp server, i get an error saying "this site can't be reached. <ip address> refused to connect." i opened port 58050/58051 on my router (at least i think i did it properly) but it didn't fix the problem.

[Cebolla]

I have no idea how to install BubbleUpnp on the Fire TV Stick, my Vortexbox, and my Squeezebox Touch. I guess there's no way that those are open home renderers despite the box in BubbleUpnp Server being checked?

Vortexboxes normally run a Squeezebox emulator for streaming and Squeezeboxes don't support UPnP/DLNA for streaming. Neither does the Amazon Fire TV Stick. Hence the reason why they can't be seen by the BubbleUPnP Server as a media renderer (list on the left), in order to create an OpenHome renderer for (on the right):

 

Note, Google Chromecast devices are currently the only non UPnP/DLNA streaming devices that the BubbleUPnP Server software can provide 'help' for.

[ted_b]

According to the BubbleUpnp Server running on the Synology, each of the renderers has "create an open home renderer" checked. However, BubbleUpnp is not installed on any of the renderers other than the Android ones, which don't need to be open home because they have been seeing the Synology Media server just fine after I turned off the firewall.

 

I have no idea how to install BubbleUpnp on the Fire TV Stick, my Vortexbox, and my Squeezebox Touch. I guess there's no way that those are open home renderers despite the box in BubbleUpnp Server being checked?

 

When you install BubbleUPnP server (not to be confused with the Android app called BubbleUPnP, a control point) you need to actively create an OpenHome proxy for each of the renderers you want to use. Click on the "create Openhome renderer", rename them to something you'll recognize (cuz now there will be two of them on your network, one is not OH, the other is). Hit apply/ok.

 

BubbleUPnP (the control point) is an Android app, and is not part of this discussion. It is already seen by your renderer, as you have found out.

 

As Cebolla has pointed out, not all your clients are UPnP. If they don't show up on BubbleServers menu then they are not part of this discussion. They access music differently.

 

As per my reviews, etc I favor Kazoo (and Minimserver as my UPnP AV music server).

[Cebolla]

while i got stuff working, i wonder if anyone can help me out. when i'm on the main menu in my synology nas and click on bubbleupnp server, i get an error saying "this site can't be reached. <ip address> refused to connect." i opened port 58050/58051 on my router (at least i think i did it properly) but it didn't fix the problem.

Looks very similar to an issue someone else posted on one of Bubbleguuum's threads (to which a fix was suggested), especially if your Synology NAS has recently been updated to use DSM 6, see:

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f22-networking-networked-audio-and-streaming/play-qobuz-any-streamer-bubbleupnp-android-25075/index2.html#post528561

[Mike Rubin]

Vortexboxes normally run a Squeezebox emulator for streaming and Squeezeboxes don't support UPnP/DLNA for streaming. Neither does the Amazon Fire TV Stick. Hence the reason why they can't be seen by the BubbleUPnP Server as a media renderer (list on the left), in order to create an OpenHome renderer for (on the right):

[ATTACH=CONFIG]25162[/ATTACH]

 

Note, Google Chromecast devices are currently the only non UPnP/DLNA streaming devices that the BubbleUPnP Server software can provide 'help' for.

 

Now I am confused. I think we have exhausted my understanding of DLNA and how to use it.

 

With Twonky or any of several other apps, the Fire TV Stick shows up on all of my controllers. The Vortexbox player (Vi DAC on the attached capture) has shown up as a renderer on every one of my DLNA controllers since I first got it. As I type this , I am listening to music on the Fire TV Stick, using the Synology Media Center as the streamer, the Bubbleupnp app on my phone as the controller, and Twonky on the Fire TV Stick as the renderer. The iOS apps don't see them the same way.

[Mike Rubin]

 

This is what this instance of the Bubbleupnp controller sees. The open home renderers appear on this list. They aren't always there for the selection, but they are for the moment.

[jcn3]

mike -- i wonder if @bubblegumm can help out. as you can tell, i'm limited in my knowledge of this . . . .

 

while i got stuff working, i wonder if anyone can help me out. when i'm on the main menu in my synology nas and click on bubbleupnp server, i get an error saying "this site can't be reached. <ip address> refused to connect." i opened port 58050/58051 on my router (at least i think i did it properly) but it didn't fix the problem.

 

okay, so i'm not too bright. my problem was the version of java. java7 removed, java8 installed. now able to configure bubbleupnp on the nas. that's allows me to eliminate my "workaround" of installing bubbleupnp on another machine.

[jcn3]

As so often with software problems, the a fresh install often solves the issue without ever fully knowing what went wrong. So if nobody else brings a good next step, I'd suggest in this order:

- factory reset the Synology.

- first update the DSM package to the latest 6.0 (which just came out last week)

- do minimal changes to DSM. Don't install other programs, setup hibernation, extra users etc.

- install the Java 8 upgrade (When I tried this last week from Package Center it didn't install the latest version!) I found it manually on Mimimserver's website, the page "Downloading Java" Make sure to download the Linux version. Download it to your mac or windows pc and then on Synology's Package Center choose "Manual Install" and browse to install the file just downloaded onto your computer.

- install BubbleUPnP Server

- confirm that the internet test works, if not, troubleshoot from there.

 

Sort of a tangential rabbithole, but if you have a mac you can try downloading Openhome Player onto it, installing Minimserver on the Synology and test using Linn Kazoo or Lumin (OpenHome compatible iPad control points), that would at least confirm the Synology itself and Java 8 aren't the problem. For this to work, you must mount the drive on the mac where the music library is (just open Finder and click on the Synology's folder for your music), then doubleclick on OpenHome Player, which should put an oval icon in the top bar. Then from the iPad run a control point and select the UPnP (Synology) as your player(it will be the only choice) if it doesn't load automatically.

 

Good luck.

 

thank you so much for this post!! would have never figured this out on my own!

 

i had everything working except tidal. the configuration page of bubbleupnp showed a java-related internet connectivity error. the version of java8 was the problem! uninstalled minimserver and bubbleupnp, downloaded and installed the latest java8 version from the oracle website, and reinstalled minimserver and bubbleupnp. bingo!

[Cebolla]

okay, so i'm not too bright. my problem was the version of java. java7 removed, java8 installed. now able to configure bubbleupnp on the nas. that's allows me to eliminate my "workaround" of installing bubbleupnp on another machine.

You're certainly not the only one caught out by Synology using DSM 6 and not making sure that everyone starts using Java 8 instead of Java 7. The MinimServer forum has had to put a big notice up!

[sbank]

Glad you figured it out. Enjoy.

[Cebolla]

Now I am confused. I think we have exhausted my understanding of DLNA and how to use it.

 

With Twonky or any of several other apps, the Fire TV Stick shows up on all of my controllers. The Vortexbox player (Vi DAC on the attached capture) has shown up as a renderer on every one of my DLNA controllers since I first got it. As I type this , I am listening to music on the Fire TV Stick, using the Synology Media Center as the streamer, the Bubbleupnp app on my phone as the controller, and Twonky on the Fire TV Stick as the renderer. The iOS apps don't see them the same way.

Ok, so you did mean literally install BubbleUPnP on the Squeezebox Touch, Vortexbox & Fire TV Stick! I took what you posted to mean that you couldn't get those devices to appear on the BubbleUPnP Server media renderer list, hence the reason you couldn't make OpenHome renderers for them

 

Didn't realise you'd installed a UPnP/DLNA streamer app, the Twonky receiver, on the Fire TV (which on its own does not support UPnP/DLNA) and have UPnP/DLNA enabled on the Vortexbox. Presumably it's some helper software running somewhere (I'm guessing the Vortexbox) that's getting the non-UPnP/DLNA proprietrary Squeezebox Touch to be emulated as a UPnP/DLNA renderer - possibly the UPnP/DLNA plugin for the Logitech Media Server or even the Whitebear Media Server/Renderer software (but this normally needs to run on a Windows box).

 

Regardless, if a device is appearing on the BubbleUPnP Server's list of Media Renderers, you have ticked the "Create an OpenHome renderer" box for that device and the popup box confirming that the OpenHome renderer has been created appears after you do so, then you have done all you can to create an (emulated) OpenHome renderer for that device. So there's actually nothing to install on the Fire TV, Vortexbox or the Squeezebox Touch (other than what's already installed on them) and certainly no special BubbleUPnP app/software to install on them.

 

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]25167[/ATTACH]

 

This is what this instance of the Bubbleupnp controller sees. The open home renderers appear on this list. They aren't always there for the selection, but they are for the moment.

Your image of the Android BubbleUPnP app clearly shows and confirms the OpenHome renderers have been created using the BubbleUPnP Server, the ones that contain '(OpenHome)' after their name.

 

The question is, why are the iOS OpenHome controller apps not picking them up?

Have you tried accessing them with the Android version of the Linn Kazoo app or some other OpenHome only Android OpenHome controller, such as BubbleDS Next?

I say 'OpenHome only', because the BubbleUPnP app can access both OpenHome and standard UPnP/DLNA renderers.

[Mike Rubin]

Ok, so you did mean literally install BubbleUPnP on the Squeezebox Touch, Vortexbox & Fire TV Stick! I took what you posted to mean that you couldn't get those devices to appear on the BubbleUPnP Server media renderer list, hence the reason you couldn't make OpenHome renderers for them

 

Didn't realise you'd installed a UPnP/DLNA streamer app, the Twonky receiver, on the Fire TV (which on its own does not support UPnP/DLNA) and have UPnP/DLNA enabled on the Vortexbox. Presumably it's some helper software running somewhere (I'm guessing the Vortexbox) that's getting the non-UPnP/DLNA proprietrary Squeezebox Touch to be emulated as a UPnP/DLNA renderer - possibly the UPnP/DLNA plugin for the Logitech Media Server or even the Whitebear Media Server/Renderer software (but this normally needs to run on a Windows box).

 

Regardless, if a device is appearing on the BubbleUPnP Server's list of Media Renderers, you have ticked the "Create an OpenHome renderer" box for that device and the popup box confirming that the OpenHome renderer has been created appears after you do so, then you have done all you can to create an (emulated) OpenHome renderer for that device. So there's actually nothing to install on the Fire TV, Vortexbox or the Squeezebox Touch (other than what's already installed on them) and certainly no special BubbleUPnP app/software to install on them.

 

 

Your image of the Android BubbleUPnP app clearly shows and confirms the OpenHome renderers have been created using the BubbleUPnP Server, the ones that contain '(OpenHome)' after their name.

 

The question is, why are the iOS OpenHome controller apps not picking them up?

Have you tried accessing them with the Android version of the Linn Kazoo app or some other OpenHome only Android OpenHome controller, such as BubbleDS Next?

I say 'OpenHome only', because the BubbleUPnP app can access both OpenHome and standard UPnP/DLNA renderers.

 

It's really serendipity, because sometimes 'tis and sometimes 'tain't, but, right now, at this precise moment, I have Minimserver on the Synology connected to the Vi DAC Open Home renderer on three Android apps: Bubbleupnp, Kazoo and BubbleDS Next. Unfortunately, I can't check right now on the iPad.

 

Bubbleupnp sees three Open Home devices on its picklist, BubbleDS sees two, and Kazoo sees one (or, if it sees any others, I can't figure out to find and select them on the interface, as the one it sees autopopulated that and doesn't seem to be connected to a picklist).

[Distinctive]

I honestly have to say that all these DSM upgrades followed by manual installation of Java and Minimserver really is a pain in the butt.

I tried to do it yesterday from my iPad, but also realized that I needed a computer for intermediate storage of the downloads.

[Mike Rubin]

And every time I think I have things in a workable state, they go awry. I had to restart the Synology because it no longer recognized my esata drive on its esata port, which I had mapped to my computer. A restart is the recommended way to get the Synology to recognize the external drives if they have fallen off the chart. So I restarted.

 

Now, I can't see any of the Synology DLNA or DLNA emulator servers (Media Server, Minim, or LMS) using my Android devices, whether as themselves or as a proxy previously created with BubbleUpnP Server, and I can't see any of the Open Home renderers as Open Home renderers on any of my devices. I've tried restarting all devices and all software a few times now.

 

I double reposted my last screenshot of the renderers discovered by BubbleUPnP Server, which is a few posts above, so it can be compared to one that I just created. Unfortunately, I can't figure out how to post the new capture, as I seem to keep bringing only the old one, and I can't see how to delete the duplicate in this post. In any event, the discovered renderer list now is down to one, the Living Room Touch, which I have made into an Open Home renderer that is not being seen as such on the network by the likes of Kazoo or even BubbleUPnP controller. The new list, at one renderer, is quite truncated compared to what it was when it was six. Similarly, the server list is a lot shorter as well.

 

I've done nothing to the network or its settings since obtaining the Synology. It really does remain the single variable between the "before" and "after" pictures. I have to assume that it's something about my network because, were it not, I doubt that I'd be the only one complaining about its UPnP/DLNA implementation. I don't really see similar complaints posted by users on the Internet and Synology itself seems to think this is some anomaly unique to me.

 

Just kvetching now. I don't expect anyone to figure out a cure if not able to play with my network.

[Mike Rubin]

I had occasion today to put my old Buffalo back into my system alongside the Synology. Immediately, as soon as I fired it up, the Buffalo's UPnP service was discovered by all of the Android controllers and the iPad alike. The Synology, in contrast, only is discovered erratically and then may or may not stay connected. My suspicion, at this point, is that the Synology simply does not implement UPnP properly and its best use definitely is not as a UPnP server.