Best Nvidia CUDA Card for HQPlayer

[NellyWhads]

1 minute ago, AudioDoctor said:

That will NEVER happen.

Well there we have it. Only really possible in The Beast. 

 

Seems the right way to approach this is to build a 7600X into the Streacom FC8 and spend some time with PCM 1.5M + DSD pass through. After spending some time with the May (and maybe testing some offline up-sampled files on DSD 1024) I can see what to do next.

 

Only question that remains is what CPU can do on its own given DSD input stream and DSD max up-sample out. I'll let you get back to me on that when you have some time to experiment - no rush.

 

Many thanks

[AudioDoctor]

1 minute ago, pis99 said:

Yes, I think the 24G of 3090 is the key for sinc-l. 

 

NO doubt. I like sinc-L, but I like poly-sinc-gauss-long and poly-sinc-gauss-hires-lp, more as I find them a bit more musical with minimal loss of the attack and speed of sinc-L. 

 

However, this is all personal so there are no wrong answers.

[NellyWhads]

1 minute ago, AudioDoctor said:

 

NO doubt. I like sinc-L, but I like poly-sinc-gauss-long and poly-sinc-gauss-hires-lp, more as I find them a bit more musical with minimal loss of the attack and speed of sinc-L. 

 

However, this is all personal so there are no wrong answers.

I think my exploration so far with filters (even in this discussion) is to have the option to run the system in a given configuration, and know that it will be able to handle some reasonable extra stress as Jussi gets more and more crazy. Even if those filters don't end up being what I use all the time.

[AudioDoctor]

2 minutes ago, NellyWhads said:

I think my exploration so far with filters (even in this discussion) is to have the option to run the system in a given configuration, and know that it will be able to handle some reasonable extra stress as Jussi gets more and more crazy. Even if those filters don't end up being what I use all the time.

 

That sounds reasonable.

[Rovo]

@NellyWhads

I am running HQPLayer with sinc-L and ASDM7EC512+fs. DSD512 is possible for multiples of 44.1kHz, but for multiples of 48kHz I get dropouts every approximately 45 seconds, so I have limited this one to DSD256. Power draw from the wall is approximately 180W, this is for the motherboard, CPU, RAM, one SSD and the GPU (fans powered separately). According to the NVidia tool the GPU is using approximately 70W, so I expect the CPU to draw approximately 95 to 100W. I am using a BeQuiet Dark Rock Pro 4 and the CPU temperature is approximately 60 degrees Celsius. I hope this information is helpful. 

 

At the moment I am designing my own case to passively cool the HQPlayer upsampling PC. I will be using larger heatsinks than in the HDPlex H5 case. Perhaps because I can, but I do not know if it is necessary. 

[Miska]

5 hours ago, AudioDoctor said:

Additionally, I am pretty sure the new generation of CPUs and GPUs will be too hot to use passively at all without going to massively overkill extremes that make this look tiny.

 

AMD specifies that their latest 7x00X CPU offerings must be water cooled. Only the non-X (equivalent of Intel's K) can be air cooled.

 

[Miska]

4 hours ago, NellyWhads said:

Hm, I was thinking if you're starting with DSD64, interpolating to a higher 1-bit sample rate would be significantly less computationally expensive compared to starting all the way at RedBook. Perhaps @Miska could provide some insight based on implementation of the most taxing filters.

 

Every time you double the sampling rate, both filter and modulator loads roughly double. So you can see that the load increases rather quickly as function of sampling rate.

 

4 hours ago, NellyWhads said:

Edit: I wonder if there are any statistical/machine learning methods cooking in his kitchen... an inference engine for up-sampling like Sony's DSEE could be pretty spiffy cool... maybe I should look into it

 

Statistical things are already there. But AI things are on better use elsewhere, AI too much being just current hype without real applications in many uses. And you can also see a lot of fake advertising, where some statistical things are advertised as "AI" just because it looks better in advertising material. There is also a lot of potential to end up with seriously wrong decisions using AI.

 

[NellyWhads]

29 minutes ago, Miska said:

Every time you double the sampling rate, both filter and modulator loads roughly double. So you can see that the load increases rather quickly as function of sampling rate.

I guess it makes sense for source rate; more samples to process = higher memory requirement. I the CPU can keep up then it's just a memory concern. 32GB system memory and you're happy for DSD 512. Everything else is just CPU processing speed per W of power.

 

Can HQP benefit from using a fast enough GPU with DMA? Or is hardware GPU memory a requirement due to the streaming implementation? Maybe in the future we can get away with lower clock speed/TDP GPUs which have DMA available if that is the case.

[NellyWhads]

3 hours ago, Rovo said:

@NellyWhads

I am running HQPLayer with sinc-L and ASDM7EC512+fs. DSD512 is possible for multiples of 44.1kHz, but for multiples of 48kHz I get dropouts every approximately 45 seconds, so I have limited this one to DSD256. Power draw from the wall is approximately 180W, this is for the motherboard, CPU, RAM, one SSD and the GPU (fans powered separately). According to the NVidia tool the GPU is using approximately 70W, so I expect the CPU to draw approximately 95 to 100W. I am using a BeQuiet Dark Rock Pro 4 and the CPU temperature is approximately 60 degrees Celsius. I hope this information is helpful. 

 

At the moment I am designing my own case to passively cool the HQPlayer upsampling PC. I will be using larger heatsinks than in the HDPlex H5 case. Perhaps because I can, but I do not know if it is necessary. 

Thank you very much Rovo, this helps a lot.

 

Would it be possible to test how your load looks/what stable upsampling you can achieve if you start with DSD64 source content? The filters and modulator you are using are just right for the magnitude of system load test, so no change is necessary from those preferences.

[pis99]

1 hour ago, NellyWhads said:

Thank you very much Rovo, this helps a lot.

 

Would it be possible to test how your load looks/what stable upsampling you can achieve if you start with DSD64 source content? The filters and modulator you are using are just right for the magnitude of system load test, so no change is necessary from those preferences.

Here you go! 12900KS/3090

 

 

[NellyWhads]

1 hour ago, pis99 said:

Here you go! 12900KS/3090

Cool! Roughly 150W GPU dissipation needed it seems in total on the 3090 (using some good judgement). Less than I expected to be honest.

 

Any chance you can try CPU only? After speaking to Jussi I'm currently targetting the i13900T when it is repeased for a CPU-only build. Can give it extra memory if there is a chance it can handle DSD -> DSD on its own.

[Miska]

8 hours ago, NellyWhads said:

I guess it makes sense for source rate; more samples to process = higher memory requirement. I the CPU can keep up then it's just a memory concern. 32GB system memory and you're happy for DSD 512. Everything else is just CPU processing speed per W of power.

 

Every doubling of rate requires CPU to execute about twice as many instructions per second. Then rest largely depends on how much things fit in the CPU caches. Some of the algorithms depend heavily on how many instructions per clock can be executed and how many clock cycles per second you have to spare.

 

8 hours ago, NellyWhads said:

Can HQP benefit from using a fast enough GPU with DMA? Or is hardware GPU memory a requirement due to the streaming implementation? Maybe in the future we can get away with lower clock speed/TDP GPUs which have DMA available if that is the case.

 

GPU can help only on about half of the operations. Remaining half needs to run on the CPU. CPU <-> GPU bandwidth is not an issue in this case since the amount of data moving around is fairly small. Traffic between GPU and it's RAM is rather heavy though.

 

[botrytis]

Have you tried a Ryzen 7-5800X3D for this? The extra cache (96MB L3 cache) in this CPU might help. Just asking is all.

[AudioDoctor]

10 minutes ago, botrytis said:

Have you tried a Ryzen 7-5800X3D for this? The extra cache (96MB L3 cache) in this CPU might help. Just asking is all.

 

If my case wasn't such a pain to work with, I would go buy one and try it.

[botrytis]

2 minutes ago, AudioDoctor said:

 

If my case wasn't such a pain to work with, I would go buy one and try it.

 

Totally get it. I am asking is all.

[lsantista]

On 10/11/2022 at 11:10 AM, NellyWhads said:

Cool! Roughly 150W GPU dissipation needed it seems in total on the 3090 (using some good judgement). Less than I expected to be honest.

 

Any chance you can try CPU only? After speaking to Jussi I'm currently targetting the i13900T when it is repeased for a CPU-only build. Can give it extra memory if there is a chance it can handle DSD -> DSD on its own.

Did you have any chance of trying this?

 

[NellyWhads]

On 11/25/2022 at 5:53 AM, lsantista said:

Did you have any chance of trying this?

 

I have made no moves to build a server yet.

 

I am of two minds:

1. Take a lot of folks' advice and separate the Server PC from the Up-sampler PC. The added cost will come particularly from the network cards (JCAT NET XE x2) and matching power supplies.

2. Wait for the i9 13900T and hope I'm happy enough with it doing double duty for Roon and HQP.

 

Either way, I'm waiting for a 'sign' in the form of local used part availability, especially an HDPlex H5 somewhere in Canada.

 

All in good time I imagine. I'm a patient person

[AudioDoctor]

55 minutes ago, NellyWhads said:

I have made no moves to build a server yet.

 

I am of two minds:

1. Take a lot of folks' advice and separate the Server PC from the Up-sampler PC. The added cost will come particularly from the network cards (JCAT NET XE x2) and matching power supplies.

2. Wait for the i9 13900T and hope I'm happy enough with it doing double duty for Roon and HQP.

 

Either way, I'm waiting for a 'sign' in the form of local used part availability, especially an HDPlex H5 somewhere in Canada.

 

All in good time I imagine. I'm a patient person

 

The server side doesn't need to be high power at all. I am running Minimserver on a 2011 Mac mini i5 running Ubuntu server that never reaches 2% CPU usage just serving up files to the HQPlayer machine.

 

[NellyWhads]

9 hours ago, AudioDoctor said:

 

The server side doesn't need to be high power at all. I am running Minimserver on a 2011 Mac mini i5 running Ubuntu server that never reaches 2% CPU usage just serving up files to the HQPlayer machine.

 

I already have everything set up for a fully passive server PC, so that part cost I'm not counting (even though they're nice to haves. 4x 8tb SSDs are not necessary.. but it's already there. It's just the added network cards and power that will be the cost incurred for one approach over the other.

[Apollo]

I am looking around for a second hand gpu with min 16Gb memory for HQplayer.
Need some advice, on following 2 offers:

 

1) PNY Nvidia RTX A4000 16GB : 600€

2) Gigabyte Aurora Nvidia RTX 3090 24GB : 450€

 

which one would you recommend?

[Rovo]

On 6/24/2023 at 8:38 PM, Apollo said:

I am looking around for a second hand gpu with min 16Gb memory for HQplayer.
Need some advice, on following 2 offers:

 

1) PNY Nvidia RTX A4000 16GB : 600€

2) Gigabyte Aurora Nvidia RTX 3090 24GB : 450€

 

which one would you recommend?

Two important differences of the two cards are the required power and the amount of memory. If the (high quality) power supply is limited then the RTX A4000 is the favourite. If you need a lot of memory (e.g. sinc-L at DSD1024) the 24GB is the favourite. 

[b0bb]

On 6/24/2023 at 11:38 AM, Apollo said:

I am looking around for a second hand gpu with min 16Gb memory for HQplayer.
Need some advice, on following 2 offers:

 

1) PNY Nvidia RTX A4000 16GB : 600€

2) Gigabyte Aurora Nvidia RTX 3090 24GB : 450€

 

which one would you recommend?

 

The 3090 card is good if you want to use the heavier filters and modulators, especially if you want 44k to 48k (or vice versa) conversion to high rate DSD (DSD512 or DSD1024).

 

It is up to 3X faster than A4000 but you will have to use all 3 8pin PCIe connectors, the card can draw up to 450-500W, Nvidia Ampere GPU architecture pretty much scales linearly with the amount of power consumed, A4000 TDP is about 140W.

 

Gigabyte 3090 is 3 slots wide, A4000 is 1 slot, with the Gigabyte card on the motherboard, the adjacent M2 SSD slots are not really usable as the cooler vents hot exhaust air onto to the areas where most auxillary M2 slots are commonly located.

 

There have been reports of the area around the PCIe latch area developing hairline cracks, the card has to be supported on the other end to reduce stress. 

Checking for hairline cracks should be done before buying any used Gigabyte cards.

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/gigabyte-rtx-30-rtx-40-series-gpu-pcbs-are-reportedly-cracking

 

The PCIe connector near the latch is a little longer and thicker compared to cards from Asus or MSI, my 3080ti has to be pushed all the way in to the slot until the retaining latch pops up to lock the card into place

[Apollo]

I have bought the A4000 with 16GB, as I have no plans to go higher than DSD512.

Another question that comes up.

As my I9 13900 CPU has integrated graphics, will this automatically be disabled when installing the A4000 card?

Or do I need to disable in bios myself?

Any other points of attention?

Dirk

 

[Rovo]

49 minutes ago, Apollo said:

I have bought the A4000 with 16GB, as I have no plans to go higher than DSD512.

Another question that comes up.

As my I9 13900 CPU has integrated graphics, will this automatically be disabled when installing the A4000 card?

Or do I need to disable in bios myself?

Any other points of attention?

Dirk

 

Hello Dirk, 

 

congratulations with your purchase, now to get it working!

 

For the BIOS settings you can select "Load optimized defaults" and select the XMP I profile for your memory. Perhaps disable some led lighting or other not used features of your motherboard. For the rest you can use the default settings. 

 

Next you install Ubuntu Server 22.04 (see one of my posts (How to install HQPlayer Embedded on Ubuntu 22.04, April 25) for details!): 

- you can select the "normal installation" (minimized is not necessary)

- in the Guided storage configuration UNCHECK setup disk as LVM group (this could otherwise interfere when you are using a HQPlayer USB key/dongle)

- adviced is to install OpenSSH server

- after rebooting solve the problem "... wait for network to be configured" (see one of my posts for details!)

 

Next install HQPlayer Embedded including the packages for CUDA offload for your RTX A4000 (see one of my posts for details!). 

 

Fill in your settings on the HQPlayer Embedded web page and upload your key file. 

 

The above instructions should get you up and going. 

 

Robert

 

[Escarbille]

 

Hello,

 

@Apollon, why add a CG to your 13900, I think if you limit yourself to DSD512, the cpu must know how to make most filters work...