Sonore microRendu

[barrows]

6 minutes ago, mirekti said:

Could someone post a link or explain where I could see the benefits to uR compared to galvanically isolated DAC?

I am not quite sure I understand all of this. Not trying to stir anything, but I spent some time reading different topics and came to conclusion if data was delivered to DAC and the DAC was an asynch DAC, it would reorder the bits anyway. Regarding the noise, I read it comes from 5V, but if the DAC is galvanically isolated this is mitigated. 

 

Is this a product for DACs which don't have 5V galvanically isolated from data link and have bad/cheap reclocking so using uR will benefit in no noise sent and it would make it easier for bad/cheap reclocking in the DAC to work better? 

In my experience, the microRendu, the Ultra Rendu, and the Signature Rendu SE all give great benefits even when paired with a DAC which offers an isolated USB interface.  Indeed, I prefer a DAC to have a properly isolated USB interface, and mine does, still a better USB feed offers improved sonics, and in a big way.

Perhaps this down to the fact that no isolation is perfect, perhaps it is related to the factors of USB packet noise.  If you want to learn more about this, i would suggest searching for John Swenson's posts on the USB interface in the various Uptone Audio threads on their regen products.  John seems to understand more about the USB interface than anyone else.

BTW, these "issues" are not limited to USB, every interface has its own technical difficulties to overcome, for example, building a decent SPDIF transmitter or receiver circuit is enormously challenging, and everyone with experience knows how big a difference a good SPDIF cable can make for that interface.

 

To to it off, even though they should have isolated interfaces, many, even very expensive DACs do not!  I find that somewhat annoying myself.

[barrows]

54 minutes ago, soupdujour said:

Hi all,

 

My ultraRendu arrived this afternoon.  Without the benefit of any burn-in (i.e., right out of the box) and after just a few bars of The Bill Evans Trio playing "Isn't it Romantic" from the DSD-256 version of "At Shelly's Manne-Hole" I knew that my previous audio rig, which I thought already to be at the apex of my own listening experience, climbed to new stratospheric heights.  But first some context.  Prior to adding the ultraRendu to the setup, my configuration included the following in the line-up: Brooklyn DAC (powered by an UpTone JS-2), an ISO REGEN (also powered by the JS-2) feeding into the DAC with a USPCB A>B, a microRendu 1.3 (powered by an UpTone LPS-1), AudioQuest Vodka ethernet for NAS and MacMini connections.  With my McIntosh amplifier driving my BW CM600 speakers in that configuration I could easily find myself listening for hours, feeling immersed by the open and natural sound reproduction of nearly all, but especially jazz, recordings in my library.

 

Then today I swapped out the mR 1.3 for the new ultraRendu.  WOW!  The soundstage not only widened, but the placement of the instruments on it seemed even more natural with the added depth the uR brings.  There's just so much added realism to the sounds of the instruments: the brushwork is textured and detailed, the cymbals naturally decay, and the movement of air with each note of the double bass is palpable.  And, as I said, this is without any burn-in period.  Some folks here commented just how much of an improvement the mR 1.4 is over its predecessor.  I can't compare the uR to mR 1.4, but if you're contemplating the leap from 1.3 to the uR, I can safely say you won't be disappointed.  I cannot wait to hear the incremental improvements after hours of streaming.

 

Happy listening!

Hurray!

[barrows]

9 hours ago, canali said:

thing is: i'd really like to know just how well the 1.4 upgrade truly compares to the ultrarendu.

too bad Jesus wasn't more disclosing in terms of percentages

eg, is it ...% there in SQ?

There is no way to give a % improvement, how could you quantify that?  But, there is a significant difference in the circuit and layout between the microRendu 1.4 and the ultraRendu, more and better separate voltage regulation stages (no switching regulators at all), better layout with less capacitive coupling between stages (= less noise on USB) etc.

[barrows]

1 hour ago, canali said:

while i understand what you're saying empirically, i don't think it's too difficult, esp with someone's ears like yours and Jesus' to be able give a fair approximation.

I do not think it really appropriate for a representative of the manufacturer to try and describe sonic differences (other manufacturers are of course welcome to feel differently).  Every system is different, and the difference between these products will be system dependent.  We much prefer user reviews/sonic impressions, and I believe there are quite a few of those available online already.  I am much more comfortable talking about technical differences/improvements in design.

[barrows]

1 hour ago, rlow said:

Hi all - I've got a line on a good deal for an Sbooster BOTW 9v/10v power supply. I see on Sbooster' site they recommend the 5v/6v version for the microRendu. Anyone know if the 9v/10v version (set to 9v) will work ok with the microRendu or ultraRendu?

9V should work fine with the ultra, with the micro you are getting close to the point where heat may be a problem: the heat level will depend on how much (if any) the attached DAC draws (current) from the USB 5V feed.  9V should be OK when using a DAC which does use the 5V USB power.

[barrows]

24 minutes ago, d_elm said:

When HQ Player NAA is used on the microRendu and the data rate is 44.1 upsampled to DSD512 there are clicks and pops in the playback.  I would like to look at the CPU usage on the microRendu when this happens.  Is the 'top' command available on mR and what is the SSH login and password ?

I assume you checked the CPU on the computer running HQP already?  It is doing the "heavy lifting"...

[barrows]

25 minutes ago, d_elm said:

No, it is not my system. Trying to help a friend.  Makes more sense to me the HQ NAA is overloaded.  Does not happen, recently, with roon NAA.  How about  SSH access so I can have a look at CPU with top ?

You would need to talk with Jesus about that.  As Sonore World HQ is preparing for the the Irma nightmare, please be patient when it comes to customer support over the next week.

[barrows]

37 minutes ago, d_elm said:

Does this post do it to "talk with Jesus" or is there something else I must do ?  Sonore's web site indicates this is it.

As I suggested, please be patient with CS for Sonore right now.  Jesus, family, and the Sonore team may be evacuating.  For direct contact go to sonore.us and use the contact e-mail there.

[barrows]

6 minutes ago, davide256 said:

Hi Jesus, I have a question you will likely find bizarre. Can the microRendu function correctly if immersed in a liquid nitrogen bath? Would this be destructive to any components of the device?

You are considering cryo treating it?

[barrows]

yes, I think there are a very few out there...

[barrows]

1 minute ago, guls said:

I have an old Musical Fidelity V-PSU with me. It has three 12V outputs. If I use it to power the microrendu, will it cause any damage?

Max input voltage is 9 VDC, do not use a 12 volt supply.

[barrows]

That was because the introduction of the Signature Rendu SE was imminent, and to use that Rendu an actual USB cable (rather than super short adapter, etc) is necessary.  Additionally, as I was anticipating that the performance of the Signature Rendu SE was going to be off the charts, I felt the need to really dig into USB cables to find a really good one which would allow the SE to show its full performance.

So far, I am most happy with the Nordost Tyr USB cable, but wish I could get  my hands on a Valhalla 2 USB cable...   I also use the Sonore USB, which is very good as well.

[barrows]

Usually, most suggest the shortest cable is the best for USB.  I suggest experimenting in your system, I did not like the short adapter with the microRendu, but I did like the short(ish) Curious cable.

Of course, with the Signature Rendu SE I use a normal USB cable, and the right one does matter.

[barrows]

Why not go back to the Curious then?  We also have the Sonore USB, it is excellent, and it is under $1K at least.  Do not ask me why it is not on the Sonore web page.

It has separated power and signal legs, and very special HS signal wiring, made to our specifications by Cardas.  There is a picture of it on the Sonore FaceBook page.

[barrows]

Cool, it is on the website now...

[barrows]

On 3/8/2018 at 10:11 AM, Solstice380 said:

And they are affordable.  Sorry, I just haven’t found the Cardas cables / wire worth the asking price.  Except Audio Advisor’s Pangea which seems to sell Cardas wire at a realistic price.  I haven’t tried any of their cables I just have seen that they use Cardas and have more realistic pricing.  

 

The Sonore USB cable is entirely different design to anything offered by Cardas; it is specifically not just a re-branded Cardas product, but was designed to Sonore's specifications (after multiple prototypes were built and tested) to provide excellent performance with our products.  It would be a mistake to judge it based on the fact that is manufactured by Cardas.

[barrows]

16 minutes ago, charlesphoto said:

SuperDuperUltraMegaOkRendu

We already make that!  It is the actually named the Signature Rendu SE though...

[barrows]

If you remove the power supply you will not have a Signature Rendu SE.  There are many advantages to the SRse:

 

The power supply is highly optimized for no compromise performance specifically for this product, it is better than anything else available anywhere for this purpose.

The close coupling of the power supply and main board allow for lower output impedance and better performance, no external supply plus a cable and plugs can equal the performance of a directly coupled supply.

The SRse weighs 10 lbs, and has a very solid chassis which creates a much better environment, free of vibrations, to allow for best possible performance.

 

And it is quite beautiful as an added bonus, but that is just an addition., the performance is what it is all about.

[barrows]

26 minutes ago, R1200CL said:

 

Well you avoid to answer if there is any difference between the boards, which make me believe there isn’t any. 

 

I’ve no doubt it’s a fantastic PS. But no PS, except John Swenson design can block those DC currents and leakage as John has explained in so many posts. And as far as I understand this SE has a ‘’normal” LPS. It may be quite equal to the JS-1 PS. 

 

So I’m not convinced yet.

 

If you combine a LPS, maybe a filter, and a LPS-1.2 and a UltraRendu in one box, maybe even add some mo Metal at crital points, I agree you probably have something possible better than the normal UltraRendu with an Uptone PS. 

 

The thing is, Sonore has always avoided to tell to much about their products. And even denied the designer to tell or answer any technical questions. 

I don’t know why it’s like that. 

 

My guess is is that the Korean misuse the trust they where given, and more or less stole SW and hw design. At one point Sonore and Sotm where partners.

 

(it would by the way not surprise me if this post will be deleted). 

You are incorrect, the power supply in the Sonore Signature Rendu SE allows for better performance than any other supply we have ever tested.  There is nothing "normal" about this supply.  Yes, it is a linear supply, and as such it has no leakage currents.  Do you really think we would make our top of the line product with compromises?  

The problem with trying to explain technical things is that most audiophiles have just enough technical knowledge to misunderstand what the details mean, here you are exhibiting this by your apparent belief that something like the LPS-1 is the best possible power supply available.

Here a couple of features of the SRse which allow for better performance:

 

The main regulator is a custom built discrete design (not a simple cheap integrated chip like on the LPS-1) which has a 2 amp continuous output capability, and lower output impedance, over a wider frequency range.

 

I see you mention Mu Metal, I guess you are referring to shielding?  The SRse uses a very carefully chosen steel alloy divider inside the case to shield the AC side of the power supply from the main board.  This alloy was chosen specifically for its ability to reduce both magnetic interference (from the transformer) and radiated noise from the high voltage AC input input wiring.  And no, I am not going to tell you what the alloy is, it took a good amount of research and development time to find the right material and how to use it correctly.

 

I am not sure what technical information you are expecting Sonore to reveal about its products?  We do talk about features but some things must remain proprietary; why would we do all the hard work in R and D, and then just give away all that hard work?  I do not see other manufacturers doing this either.   

 

 

[barrows]

20 minutes ago, R1200CL said:

You may even be able to modify it yourself

I would not recommend this!  The board space around the clock on the microRendu is very tight, only someone who is a true expert in SMD soldering with a good hot air station and the knowledge of how to use could do this change and even then the risk of damaging the board is high.

[barrows]

1 minute ago, R1200CL said:

 

Agree. I wouldn’t do. But over at the SU-1 thread there are people willing to do, and has the skills. 

 

Thanks for explaining the PS of the SE edition. Maybe I one day will have the chance to try it. Is it a John Swenson design ? 

SU-1 has a lot more room around the clocks to work with.  Given its tiny size one can understand how it is much more difficult to manage the change on the microRendu.

The power supply of the SRse is a Sonore in house design, with of course, JS advising on the requirements of the circuit.

[barrows]

5 hours ago, HumanMedia said:

Forgive me if this has been answered before, but is there any audible difference between the different renderers? Assuming they all pass bit perfect data and there is no processing turned on.

 

Say, do Roon and LMS sound Identical outputting the same data?

if one generates more noise rendering the data could this be passed on to affect the sound downstream?

Yes, of course there is.  All of these things sound different.  ROON, for example uses an entirely different way of streaming over Ethernet.  The sound quality differences are not about the data, they are about how much (and what type of) noise is carried along the way to the DAC.  Same reason a better Renderer (ultraRendu vs. microRendu for example) will produce better performance.

[barrows]

I am currently getting very good results via ROON and Signature Rendu SE.  There are certainly no tonal anomalies vs. other players (I can measure that via RTA in room).  When ROON first came out, I preferred both Minimserver DLNA/MPD and Audirvana+.  But ROON has improved a lot in SQ.  Now I also oversample to DSD 256 (both for my ESS 9038 based and DSC-2 DACs) and ROON is very, nice with DSD up conversions (depends on the DAC of course).

All playback softwares do sound different though, and every system will probably respond a bit differently to different softwares, given all the variables.

Of course I need to try HQPlayer/NAA at some point, as most feel Jussi's DSD conversion and SDM is the "best".  I just do not have the hardware to handle it right now, and too many other things on my plate (DAC developments, etc).

[barrows]

37 minutes ago, R1200CL said:

 

Looks like no Black Friday from Sonore. 

 

I was hoping for the Signature Rendu SE to be offered. 

Contact:

 

[email protected]

 

For pricing inquiries on the Signature Rendu SE, I believe it might still have sale pricing.

[barrows]

1 hour ago, Peter J said:

Thanks for the success reports, I'm gonna have to give it another go after installing latest sonicOrbiter card. It appears I don't need 1.4 model to do this, which is cool. It does beg the question though, of differences in the 1.3 and 1.4 versions. Is this info in this thread somewhere? I can't find it on Sonore site.

1.4 versions have the Femto Clock.  This makes no difference in terms of what firmware works, it is a hardware change.