Pepsican Posted September 26, 2015 Share Posted September 26, 2015 Hi everyone Question: is there any obvious disadvantage to using powerline to spread the network around the house in terms of sound quality? I'm referring to devices like Develo powerline. I have one running at the moment that goes from my ISP's modem/router into a devolo, then comes out in the music room and goes into a passive D-Link 16-port switch. Thanks for your time and help! Synology DS214+ with MinimServer --> Ethernet --> Sonore mRendu / SOtM SMS-200 --> Chord Hugo --> Chord interconnects --> Naim NAP 200--> Chord speaker cable --> Focal Aria 948 Link to comment
ducatirider Posted September 26, 2015 Share Posted September 26, 2015 You're injecting the IP stream into your power lines. Think of what that added noise is doing to your audio components. Link to comment
Pepsican Posted September 26, 2015 Author Share Posted September 26, 2015 You're injecting the IP stream into your power lines. Think of what that added noise is doing to your audio components. But the electricity and IP signal never travel over the same wire simultaniously, as per powerline spec? Also, are there means to clean it up? Synology DS214+ with MinimServer --> Ethernet --> Sonore mRendu / SOtM SMS-200 --> Chord Hugo --> Chord interconnects --> Naim NAP 200--> Chord speaker cable --> Focal Aria 948 Link to comment
DavidL Posted September 26, 2015 Share Posted September 26, 2015 I agree with ducatirider, but it is worse than that. Using Powerline you are injecting stuff into the mains supply that could effect local area, giving other power users extra noise in their supply. Power line devices are therefore basically anti-social. ALAC iTunes library on Synology DS412+ running MinimServer with Samsung Galaxy Tab S2 tablet running BubbleUPnP for control > Hi-Fi 1: Airport Extreme bridge > Netgear switch > TP-Link optical isolation > dCS Network Bridge AND PS Audio PerfectWave Transport > PS Audio DirectStream DAC with Bridge Mk.II > Primare A60 > Harbeth SHL5plus Anniversary Edition . Hi-Fi 2: Sonore Rendu > Chord Hugo DAC/preamp > LFD integrated > Harbeth P3ESRs and > Sennheiser HD800 Link to comment
ducatirider Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 But the electricity and IP signal never travel over the same wire simultaniously, as per powerline spec? Also, are there means to clean it up? how does an IP signal or electricity "know" where to travel? this is not a simple battery circuit. also ethernet is collision based, the packets spread everywhere and the first to arrive wins. Link to comment
Pepsican Posted September 27, 2015 Author Share Posted September 27, 2015 how does an IP signal or electricity "know" where to travel? this is not a simple battery circuit. also ethernet is collision based, the packets spread everywhere and the first to arrive wins. But isn't that where the receiving powerline would pick up the packages, reclock the signal and then send it out over the ethernet cable, which is insulated from the electricity? Just trying to get my head around where things would go wrong. Synology DS214+ with MinimServer --> Ethernet --> Sonore mRendu / SOtM SMS-200 --> Chord Hugo --> Chord interconnects --> Naim NAP 200--> Chord speaker cable --> Focal Aria 948 Link to comment
Pepsican Posted September 27, 2015 Author Share Posted September 27, 2015 I agree with ducatirider, but it is worse than that. Using Powerline you are injecting stuff into the mains supply that could effect local area, giving other power users extra noise in their supply. Power line devices are therefore basically anti-social. The powerline and audio equipement sit on two separate rings. Synology DS214+ with MinimServer --> Ethernet --> Sonore mRendu / SOtM SMS-200 --> Chord Hugo --> Chord interconnects --> Naim NAP 200--> Chord speaker cable --> Focal Aria 948 Link to comment
Kal Rubinson Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 I have had much better success with MoCa than with powerline ethernet. Kal Rubinson Senior Contributing Editor, Stereophile Link to comment
wgscott Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 My solar panels communicate their data in this way. It causes NO PROBLEM whatsoever. Since they only transmit data when generating power during the day, i would notice a difference between night and day. But there is none. If you are worried about it, you can use a surge protector with a noise filter, but the electronic components in your audio system are immune to this kind of noise. I thought it would be kind of cool to stream music like this. Imagine, transmitting bit-perfect music on your power line as power line noise, and then using stock power cords with your equipment. According to some paranoid interpretations, I might not even need a DAC to hear the music. Link to comment
Pepsican Posted September 27, 2015 Author Share Posted September 27, 2015 I have had much better success with MoCa than with powerline ethernet. What is MoCa? I've never heard of it. Synology DS214+ with MinimServer --> Ethernet --> Sonore mRendu / SOtM SMS-200 --> Chord Hugo --> Chord interconnects --> Naim NAP 200--> Chord speaker cable --> Focal Aria 948 Link to comment
pedroromao Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 Have tried that in my setup. as I wanted to put NAS quite far away from the main system and no way I could co hardwired. Quite noticeable sound degradation with powerlines on. NAS stayed where it was. Hi everyone Question: is there any obvious disadvantage to using powerline to spread the network around the house in terms of sound quality? I'm referring to devices like Develo powerline. I have one running at the moment that goes from my ISP's modem/router into a devolo, then comes out in the music room and goes into a passive D-Link 16-port switch. Thanks for your time and help! Link to comment
Isaacc7 Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 Multimedia over Coaxial Alliance. Same idea as power line but is done via coaxial cable. The Ethernet signals use a different frequency than the cable tv does so both signals can go over the same cable. Unfortunately satellite signals use the same frequency so MoCa isn't compatible with it. Like power line you'll need two bridges, one at the router and the other wherever you want Ethernet. FIOS uses MoCa and their router is a MoCa bridge so all you'd need is another for the Ethernet connection in the other room. Link to comment
Isaacc7 Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 The answer is no, there are no disadvantages to using power line for audio as long as you have a good connection speed. The easiest way to avoid audiophila nervosa over digital transmission is to assume that how the bits get to your DAC doesn't matter. If there actually is a big difference you'll hear it but if you go in assuming there won't be a big difference you won't hear a difference and you'll stay sane. Sanity is the first requirement for enjoying music:). Link to comment
mourip Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 +1 for MOCA if your ISP's router supports it. I have found PL networking to be unreliable. MOCA is very reliable and fast. "Don't Believe Everything You Think" System Link to comment
Pepsican Posted September 27, 2015 Author Share Posted September 27, 2015 +1 for MOCA if your ISP's router supports it. I have found PL networking to be unreliable. MOCA is very reliable and fast. I read up on it and there is one problem plus a possible problem. The first problem is that i do not have coax throughout the house. And if i am going to pull wires, i may as well go cat7. Which is far superior for TCP/IP. But i'm not willing or capable of doing that so powerline will always remain part of my network. That said, i have cable internet and there is a coax going from the entry point of my cable/internet to my tv/audio room. But...the tv signal is split off from my internet signal. The internet signal goes to the ISP modem and then spreads out via wifi, ethernet and powerline throughout the house. The TV signal goes, on coax, back into the wall, travels about 25 meters, then hits a signal amplifier, and travels another 25 meters to end up in the tv room. I assume i can put an ethernet cable from my modem into the MoCA sender, but will the signal survive the amplifier (which is needed for a good picture) before it gets to the receiver? Synology DS214+ with MinimServer --> Ethernet --> Sonore mRendu / SOtM SMS-200 --> Chord Hugo --> Chord interconnects --> Naim NAP 200--> Chord speaker cable --> Focal Aria 948 Link to comment
pitbull Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 You're injecting the IP stream into your power lines. Think of what that added noise is doing to your audio components. Or your fridge ! Think of the carrots !!! Link to comment
wgscott Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 I agree with ducatirider, but it is worse than that. Using Powerline you are injecting stuff into the mains supply that could effect local area, giving other power users extra noise in their supply. Power line devices are therefore basically anti-social. If that was true, (a) you could join and monitor the activity on other people's networks (b) my solar panel harvester would detect my next door neighbor's solar panels as well as mine, since they use the same device and protocol. Remarkably, neither happens. Why could that be? Link to comment
realhifi Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 Hi everyone Question: is there any obvious disadvantage to using powerline to spread the network around the house in terms of sound quality? I'm referring to devices like Develo powerline. I have one running at the moment that goes from my ISP's modem/router into a devolo, then comes out in the music room and goes into a passive D-Link 16-port switch. Thanks for your time and help! If it works and you notice no sound quality degradation then I suppose there is no obvious disadvantage, yes? Seeing as none of us are there and you are, it would seem like you're the one that knows the answer to your question. David Link to comment
Pepsican Posted September 29, 2015 Author Share Posted September 29, 2015 If it works and you notice no sound quality degradation then I suppose there is no obvious disadvantage, yes? Seeing as none of us are there and you are, it would seem like you're the one that knows the answer to your question. Nope, I don't. Sorry. I cannot compare. I only have powerline at the moment. There is no hardwire equivalent I can compare to unless I go through the trouble of running the cables. And I'd rather get an idea of whether that would yield a likely benefit first before I go through that lengthy exercise and pay the money. Synology DS214+ with MinimServer --> Ethernet --> Sonore mRendu / SOtM SMS-200 --> Chord Hugo --> Chord interconnects --> Naim NAP 200--> Chord speaker cable --> Focal Aria 948 Link to comment
wgscott Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 You can also compare it to a wireless connection. Link to comment
Pepsican Posted September 29, 2015 Author Share Posted September 29, 2015 You can also compare it to a wireless connection. Nope :-) Too many steel rods in the concrete walls. WiFi streaming cuts out constantly. Synology DS214+ with MinimServer --> Ethernet --> Sonore mRendu / SOtM SMS-200 --> Chord Hugo --> Chord interconnects --> Naim NAP 200--> Chord speaker cable --> Focal Aria 948 Link to comment
realhifi Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 Nope, I don't. Sorry. I cannot compare. I only have powerline at the moment. There is no hardwire equivalent I can compare to unless I go through the trouble of running the cables. And I'd rather get an idea of whether that would yield a likely benefit first before I go through that lengthy exercise and pay the money. Bulk cat5 is cheap. Get some and just make a run to the other part of house and test it yourself if you really want to know if it will help. David Link to comment
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