ECdesigns

[bodiebill]

36 minutes ago, hopkins said:

 

This is very 'light" tweaking, and all about the power supply of the source, and how to best link the source to the U192. I think it is worth investigating. I don't think ECD would disapprove

 

I agree (apart perhaps from the spaghetti tweak). And I will try it too... Just ordered a usb hub from Aliexpress and the SBooster vbus thing.

🙂

 

[bodiebill]

5 minutes ago, hopkins said:

You could have skipped the hub, IMO, but you probably did not break the bank  Am just trying every combination I can - a little obsessively...

 

Without a hub I guess you would DIY the cables? In my case 'every combination' implies that I also want to try it with my Lush cable, which should be possible with the hub. But indeed, it often happens that when the ordered goods arrive (especially from China), my strategy has already changed 🙂 

[bodiebill]

 

3 hours ago, FIndingit said:

So U192 and Fractal dac sound terrible now? Ok. 

 

More context please.

Apparently not, see B, C and D.

A chain is a good as its weakest link.

[bodiebill]

58 minutes ago, matthias said:

My experience is that the weakest link at the source end is more detrimental for SQ than at the speaker end.

 

Which makes sense as the upstream source is digital which creates artefacts that need to be tamed, while the downstream end is analogue where -- notwithstanding obvious quality differences -- nothing can go really 'wrong' anymore.

 

To put it differently (admittedly too simplified): the digital stage adds bad things whereas the analogue stage hides good things.

[bodiebill]

Not sure, but does this look similar to U192ETL+TosLink?

https://www.msbtechnology.com/accessories/prousb/

[bodiebill]

3 hours ago, matthias said:

I asked ECD about the MSB ProUSB on diyaudio. They replied as follows:

https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digital-line-level/79452-building-ultimate-nos-dac-using-tda1541a-772.html#post6302417

 

Thanks Matt, I missed that.

[bodiebill]

2 minutes ago, Tzougie said:

Yes it is, I opened the fractal power supply, it isn't even stabilized, just recitified and filtered, any stabilized PS will do a better job, the TL
PS are very low noise, they are intended for low noise heater supply, I used them with success in the former ECD stuff.

 

Do I understand it right that you use a linear power supply to feed the Tentlabs 5VDC version?

What voltage is the LPS? I guess it should be from 8 to 12VDC?

Would you have a picture?

[bodiebill]

8 hours ago, Tzougie said:

No, the input of a TL PS is say about 8 V AC, the TL PS can deliver 5 V DC 1500 mA.

In the photo you'll see a PS with 4 TL PS 5  V, powered by 2 toroids for optimal separation.

 

Thanks. I am planning to power the U192ETL with a PH SR4T (which I expect in a week or so), either directly with 5V or via an MPaudio LT3045 regulator 7V => 5V. According to @tapatrick the LT3045 has no benefit with his SR4. I will do a similar comparison and will report my findings.

 

Could there be any benefit in using a VAC => VDC regulator like the TL PS rather than what I am planning? And as I understand that would be more of a DIY project that requires (a) toroid(s), a case, etc.?

[bodiebill]

28 minutes ago, matthias said:

Would you mind commenting on:

 

1.) USB > Terminator

vs

2.) USB > U192 toslink > Terminator

vs

3.) USB > U192 > Fractal DAC

 

Thank you 🙂

 

For what it is worth:

 

[bodiebill]

5 minutes ago, matthias said:

The single problem is that someone claimed source independency for these.

 

I would rather a say 'a step towards source independency'...

 

Theorem: Full source independency does not exist.

Proof: Removal of the source results in absence of sound.

🙂

[bodiebill]

@matthias

Hi Matt, can you please compare your current source with the Taiko Extreme (both hooked up to the ECD combo) and share your findings? Thanks in advance!

[bodiebill]

no kidding...

Although I cannot proof it, I am confident that the Taiko Extreme can never better my super simple (and much cheaper) SDTrans384 via I2S...

[bodiebill]

The Taiko Extreme is like a house built partly under water. A lot of its quality and cost go towards protecting the house, i.e. keeping it dry and comfortable.

I would rather build a house on a dry hill.

 

Maybe it is no coincidence that a Dutch company was so succesful in this respect 🙂

[bodiebill]

@Huubster kindly lent me his UPL96ETL!

Anyone here running the UPL_remote app on Linux that I can PM with a question? 

[bodiebill]

6 hours ago, bodiebill said:

@Huubster kindly lent me his UPL96ETL!

Anyone here running the UPL_remote app on Linux that I can PM with a question? 

 

Update: got it to work thanks to help from Gordon Brown and @hopkins 🙂

[bodiebill]

33 minutes ago, Norton said:

Updated or not, it still bests the U192 to my ears.

 

Same here. Source may be relevant: in my case NUC8i3BEK powered by PH SR4.

@Huubster confirmed this but also thinks that the gap between U and UPL is smaller with his Innuos Zen as source.

I will compare again when I am able to power the U with cleaner power (a SR4T is on its way).

 

[bodiebill]

The evening also once more showed that SQ is an evasive thing and that it is almost impossible -- however much we would like to -- to attribute it to discrete components. It is all about holistic synergy, and this not only between the devices and connectors we invested in, but also with external influences such as the quality of the power, which fluctuates throughout the day.

 

Yesterday was a fine example: when we started out, after listening to the ECD combo (UPL+DA), the SDTrans384 + Terminator sounded decidedly less musical than the ECD combo, and also significantly worse than what I was used to. Something appeared to be wrong. However, towards the end of the evening this was reversed: the ECD combo suddenly sounded strident (solo violin was unlistenable) and the SDTrans+Terminator shined again. Both @Huubster and I were at a loss what it could be, unless it was because the UPL was disconnected for some time before the problem started. But that would hardly explain the volatile performance of the SDTr+Termi.

 

Anyway, I am happy to say that today the ECD combo sounded great again! And at their best, I could not say that either combo was better than the other, in spite of their different sound signatures.

 

If I get past the awkward process of preparing a usb stick and get my music recognized by the upl_remote software, I may well buy a UPL for myself before I have to return the one that @Huubster so kindly lend to me 🙂 

[bodiebill]

9 minutes ago, nattflax said:

@bodiebill Would you mind sharing how you got the upl remote software to work?  I tried to install the appimage on Linux and it required a ton of dependencies to be downloaded and it still did not work. This is really odd because an appimage should work out of the box as it is its own iso-image with all dependencies (should be) included.

 

Thanks in advance!

 

I am afraid I also had problems with Linux (probably due my own impatience) and have now switched to Windows.

I think Gordon Brown of ECdesigns will be able to help you.

[bodiebill]

Had some problems making a usb stick for the UPL. Now it appears that the wav files (24/96 at most and below) I created with Xrecode3 cannot be read by the upl_remote app. When using EZ CD Audio Converter or dBPoweramp, it goes well. If anyone has an idea what I could be doing wrong with Xrecode3, I would be obliged as this is now my preferred conversion app.

[bodiebill]

6 hours ago, Ben75 said:

You should try this software - quoted on the UPL website page of ECD :

 

 

« Creating your first USB stick with ID3v2.3.0 wav files

---

Before you start converting music to be used with the UPL96ETL and UPL_remote software it is advisable to first try to create a single USB test stick with one or two test CDs.

For this we will use kid3 Audio Tagger software: https://kid3.kde.org/

This software will run on Linux/Windows/OSX.

It allows you to create and check ID3v2.3.0 tagged wav files, you will probably use other software like XLD (OSX) or dbpoweramp (Windows) to batch convert tagged lossless audio files to wav + ID3v2.3.0 but kid3 can be a valuable tool to check if other batch conversion software does the job correctly. »

 

Good luck with that! 🙂

 

Thanks. Kid3 shows that the wav files are properly tagged. I think the problem was with the wav encoding. Until I get Xrecode3 to work I will work with dBPoweramp.

[bodiebill]

2 hours ago, hopkins said:

Using headphones directly connected to the DAC, with the UPL, is also really interesting as you can get an idea of the level of distortion introduced by all the rest of our equipment: amplifier, speaker, room. I get the idea now behind their future PowerDAC. 

 

This thread inspired me to try just that. As I have this cable for my TakeT H2 and Hifiman HE-6 headphones (both really hard to drive) , with two 4 pin mini-XLR for the cans and one 4 pin male XLR on the other end, I ordered a 4 pin female XLR to be able to convert to 2 RCA's for the SVC24. 

 

I guess this will not work with the Taket (which needs its own special box), but it may well work with the Hifiman. 

 

 

[bodiebill]

Would the UPL also benefit from separate clean power, like the U?

[bodiebill]

21 minutes ago, hopkins said:

As you know I tested this because I used wav files containing single albums on a 1TB SSD. More about this later... 

 

Thanks @hopkins for being so creative in enlarging the possibilities of the UPL, this brilliant but constrained device!

Happy to function as a sounding board and to try out betas... 

[bodiebill]

5 minutes ago, realDHT said:

Less than a week since I recieved my ecd combo, I already started doing some modifications 😁 (bye-bye warranty). 

 

Since the enclosures are not shielded, except from the aluminium bottom plate, I tested placing them close to my amplifier transformers and could hear very noticable hum/interference pickup. I shielded the rest of the enclosures with 0.2 mm copper foil. This worked wonders, I can no longer provoke any interference pickup from the amp. At the same time I also installed foam vibration damping material under the circuit boards. 

 

Looks neat!

 

I would be interested to know how ECD owners place their devices. Stacking? Weights? Keeping distance between certain devices?

I was thinking to stack my U192+UPL96+SVC24 together using something like sugru for added weight and keep them at some distance from the DA96. Is that a good idea?

[bodiebill]

1 hour ago, hopkins said:

I also keep the DA96 at a distance from the other units.

I think the U192 emits a little more noise than the UPL. Otherwise, if you stack them, I would put the DA96 on top, just below the SVC - perhaps a small aluminum plate on top of each unit would work instead of applying copper shielding inside ? @realDHT would that be beneficial in your opinion ? 

 

Indeed, so this is my plan, with the UPL in the middle as it emits less noise. And the UPL and U will never be active at the same time.

 

SVC24

UPL96

U192                                                            DA96

 

(Good to see we also found a tweaking playground in the parallel ECD mini-universe.)