ECdesigns

[bodiebill]

I would indeed be interested to know. For instance, if GentooPlayer with wifi can compete with wtfplay, that would be nice. Because with GentooPlayer I have the best user experience as I can just browse my library en play via UPnP.

Many things to try still. Good that we are able to compare notes here.

[bodiebill]

14 hours ago, hopkins said:

P. S. @bodiebill In a client/server configuration (LMS, Roon, UPNP...) where the server and client are on two different PCs I would be curious to know if different server configurations give different results when using wifi. My assumption is that it should not. 

 

I assume it would make a difference as now (with ethernet) I can hear the difference between different audio players on my control PC (server). Why would this difference disappear when using WiFi?

[bodiebill]

15 hours ago, hopkins said:

I would still like to find a cheaper power supply option, and may end up selling the Keces if I do.

 

Coincidentally (?) I also sold my Keces.

I also have good experience with this:

https://nl.aliexpress.com/item/4000465696792.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.1fc36ea5JM2nUk&algo_pvid=d161c048-962f-46e9-bfa1-61d69c0c77f4&algo_expid=d161c048-962f-46e9-bfa1-61d69c0c77f4-1&btsid=0be3764515972354049026281ea95a&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_,searchweb201603_

It is good for 2A. You just need to feed it with a simple 6 or 7VDC LPSU and this cheap combo performs like a high end PS.

[bodiebill]

11 minutes ago, hopkins said:

Maybe because using a wired network, noise from the connected devices propagate through the cables up to the player ? This is what is trying to be fixed with all the hype about audiophile network devices... Honestly, I don't understand any of it. But you can read John Swenson's white paper and see if it makes sense to you...

 

I was not talking about the difference between ethernet and wifi, but about audible difference between two audio players that run on the server. I cannot imagine that this difference would disappear by switching from ethernet to wifi. And if it would it would mean that wifi is not as good as ethernet 🙂

[bodiebill]

20 minutes ago, hopkins said:

 

Two bit-perfect players can sound diffeent because they are designed differently, and when run generate different activity on the computer and therefore different interference "spectrum". If that computer is connected somehow to the U192, through a "wire" - the interferences may have an incidence. If the connection is wireless, you don't have that problem (but you may have others).

 

What do you mean by 'incidence' in this context?

 

The question is whether the audible difference between the players is due to the source or to the whole topology.

For instance, we would agree that a 24/96 version and an mp3 version of the same material will always sound different, whether via ethernet or wifi. We do not even want them to sound the same or we would suspect the audio system to be faulty or low-res.

For now I am assuming that the players difference is of this type. But I am open to other explanations.

 

PS: Sorry, I read to fast... You assume both players (JRiver and Upplay) are bit perfect. Maybe that was not the case when I compared.

[bodiebill]

6 hours ago, hopkins said:

Yes, I was not referring to differences in the source format, but differences in noise "spectrum" linked to the configuration (hardware, OS, application) of the server/player.  

 

Interesting. So one question is: what is the definition of 'source' in the context of 'source independence'. Apparently the 'source format' is not part of it.

 

Or another question: will two audio players on the server in a server-client setup always sound the same if both spit out bit perfect streams and supposing the ECD combo is used?

(Which could be a different way of asking whether such an audio player belongs to the 'source' in the above sense.)

 

Not saying that I know the answers, but I like these simple questions because the whole subject matter -- and I agree with @hopkins there -- is too complex to jump to hasty conclusions.

 

May the ... be with you...

 

[bodiebill]

41 minutes ago, hopkins said:

Bit-perfect playback is simply a pre-requisite. 

 

I know that this is an axiom in the ECD system of thinking. However I have heard some report that they prefer to upsample redbook to 24/96, for instance offline, or on the fly using minimserver. They find this makes a positive difference for SQ. Is that really impossible?

[bodiebill]

2 minutes ago, hopkins said:

If you are not satisfied with you DIY computer, maybe just do like Huubster and get something like an Innuous and call it a day? 

 

I was satisfied with it, but with the ECD combo I hardly hear a difference with my new NUC (untweaked other than PS). so I am now using the latter. In that sense, I did call it a day 🙂

 

(HDPlex 800W DC-ATX and Apacer ECC wide temperature RAM already have other happy owners thanks to ECD.)

[bodiebill]

10 minutes ago, hopkins said:

When you have a complex  problem to solve its good to break it down  and be able to discard some of the variables involved to pinpoint more precisely the real issues - avoid comparing apples and oranges. That's what I meant by "prerequisite". 

 

That makes sense. It is one way to get rid of one of the variables.

 

By the way, I am trying wifi on my NUC, but so far not successfully with GentooPlayer...

[bodiebill]

1 hour ago, tapatrick said:

I know how hard it is to give up endlessly tweaking, trying new things and reading about it, as this is a fun and big part of this hobby.

 

Actually for me this was a relief, especially as I suspected some (certainly not all!) of the perceived results of PC tweaking to be wishful thinking. Of course I wanted to hear the benefits of Apacer ECC wide temperature RAM, but did I ever really?

[bodiebill]

On 8/11/2020 at 11:57 PM, hopkins said:

P. S. @bodiebill In a client/server configuration (LMS, Roon, UPNP...) where the server and client are on two different PCs I would be curious to know if different server configurations give different results when using wifi. My assumption is that it should not. 

 

Today I got wifi to work with GentooPlayer (mpd+upmpdcli). I switched back and forth a few times between LAN (WLAN deactivated in NUC BIOS) and wifi (LAN deactivated) to listen to tracks sent from Upplay (using minimserver) from the server. I definitely prefer ethernet above wifi in my setup. With wifi high solo violin sounds too strident.

[bodiebill]

deleted: answer crossed question 🙂

[bodiebill]

Today I replaced an SBooster 19V LPS with a Paul Hynes SR4 to power the NUC. The difference is subtle but present. Not so much less stridency (usually my main thing), but more ease, relexation and quiet. It will stay in.

 

Actually I would not call this tweaking, rather replacing a key device in the chain. Although admittedly I had to fabricate a DIY DC cable for it. 🙂

 

Also, I got Spotify to work with GentooPlayer and was surprised at how good this sounds. Not nearly as good as the original wav files from my library though.

 

All this with the ECD combo in the chain of course.

[bodiebill]

We may seem to occasionally drift off topic, talking about tweaks. However I think these are relevant as we are talking about

      tweaks that still matter even when using the ECD combo

In that sense this topic is like a parallel little universe next to the gargantuan 'A novel way to massively improve the SQ of computer audio streaming' topic.

 

Example:

Today for the first time I got satisfying sound from my external 4TB usb drive using wtfplay. Before today I much preferred playing from a little optane disk but it meant I had to copy files over (converting them to wav while at it). Today I placed the usb drive far away, in another room, powered it with 5V linear battery power and connected it with a fibre optic usb 3.0 extension cable:

https://nl.aliexpress.com/item/32999206380.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.27424c4dOkuJku

The NUC -- unlike my previous PC -- recognized the drive! 

The SQ was almost indistinguishable from that with optane.

Another step forward...

[bodiebill]

I remember John advises to put the Fractal DAC at some distance from the power supply and PC source to isolate it from their noise. Would the same apply to the DAC and the U192ETL and/or SVC24 volume control, or would it be OK to stack (or even 'lock together') the latter three?

[bodiebill]

Limited Edition

[bodiebill]

30 minutes ago, Norton said:

For me though it’s the DAC here that’s the “crown jewels”.

 

But this DAC will never utter a single sound without the U192ETL + ElectroTos cable. So I guess the comparison would be between other R2R DAC's and this threesome (which, as some have pointed out, could or should have been one box to begin with).

 

Viewed like this, the ECD combo (some achievement!) beats my Terminator when fed with usb.

However, the Terminator has other tricks up its sleeve which are at least at the same level. But the comparison then becomes blurry / between apples and pears (SD transport, I2S etc.).

[bodiebill]

10 minutes ago, tapatrick said:

is that a hydra flopper flux capacitor with anti gravity spline orbs?

 

https://highend-electronics.com/products/synergistic-research-acoustic-art

 

Ludicrous voodoo? I once found a set really cheap and could not resist. For me it is a constant reminder of the ritualistic nature of this hobby, and I got quite attached to it.

[bodiebill]

4 hours ago, hopkins said:

You can use this type of cable as well to provide clean  power to the U192 seperately from the USB source: https://www.audiophonics.fr/fr/cables-usb-hubs/cable-separateur-jack-dc-55-21mm-femelle-vers-usb-c-male-femelle-pour-alimentation-et-donnees-20cm-p-14052.html

 

This one has the advantage that one would still be able to use a preferred usb cable (if such a thing still exists in ECD world). A disadvantage is the need for two converters: one usb-A to usb-C and one vice versa. Because of that I might opt for the usb-A to usb-A version of the iFi iPurifier+. 

[bodiebill]

8 hours ago, seeteeyou said:

Another one was recommended by @romaz

 

https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=16377

https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/taiko-audio-sgm-extreme-the-crème-de-la-crème.27433/page-150#post-631854

 

This is a usb extension cable that uses fiber optics for data to enable longer distances and minimize noise. I use a similar one for attaching my external usb drive to the NUC. Works well and improves SQ.

The monoprice one does have an optional power connection, but this is at the PC end, so I am a little puzzled how the power could travel through fiber to the U192?

[bodiebill]

Talking about clean power: in order to feed the DA96ETF from an alternative power source, would it suffice to use only the red (+) and black (GND) wires of a usb cable terminated with usb-B?

[bodiebill]

Thanks @hopkins, good to know. I expected so much but somehow remember that @tapatrick had a good experience with alternative powering of the DAC?

I will only upgrade power for the U192 for now...

[bodiebill]

30 minutes ago, seeteeyou said:

That's more like a hybrid design with both fiber and copper

 

A thanks, that explains it.

[bodiebill]

deleted

[bodiebill]

wow, I thought ECdesigns helped us to minimize tweaking... but where there is a will, there is a way...