ECdesigns

[bodiebill]

@hopkins

Do I remember well that you also had an Allo USBridge? Was it not used in your comparison?

[bodiebill]

10 hours ago, hopkins said:

I played around with various configurations this afternoon. My NUC is still giving me a superb sound with Foobar, and I have no idea why! 

 

Interesting. John Brown said that according to their own tester Foobar + 2017 WASAPI driver (if properly configured) and JRiver + WASAPI deliver bit perfect, and "that is about it" (John's words).

 

Quote

I would be curious to try "audiophile" players, but I don't have any. 

 

Did you try Upplay?

https://www.lesbonscomptes.com/upplay/

There is a Windows version that I use with minimserver. The latter has the advantage that it can convert to wav on the fly. To my ears it sounds better than JRiver.

I must say I am using these on a separate computer that acts as control point.

[bodiebill]

20 hours ago, matthias said:

Do ECD have a showroom in the NL where it is possible to listen to their complete range of products?

They do not seem be far from the border to Germany.

 

I know they occasionally did listening sessions for an audio club in the Limburg area, but the last one was already sometime ago. You could ask John whether he is willing to arrange something by appointment. I (maybe others?) would be interested to join... (I am in Amsterdam, 3.5 hrs by train and bus, 2 hrs by car 😐 from Beringe.)

[bodiebill]

27 minutes ago, matthias said:

I would wait until the PowerDAC is "ready".

 

https://photos.app.goo.gl/titskq7vJLUoHx4A6

Work in progress...

[bodiebill]

Whoops, my Spendor SP100's are 89dB 😕

But not a very loud listener I believe...

[bodiebill]

1 hour ago, tapatrick said:

Look at the claims and fascination on almost every thread on audiophile forums, it's hard to pull back and see what else is going on and not for sale in the US will limit the spreading of the EC meme. Still more people should try this equipment as it is a genuine breakthrough.

 

I recognize that. Thanks to recent findings that partly resulted from this thread, and more focus on minimalist solutions, I now spend so much less time reading AS posts. I finally unfollowed these endless feverish threads on network optimization, usb taming, fancy power supplies, ultimate PC builds etc. Quite a relief. The music flowers as a result.  

[bodiebill]

Just now, tapatrick said:

Yes, I'm enjoying music so much these days and I am trying to share the news about EC without annoying people

 

Yes, and that is not always easy as many are looking to reduce cognitive dissonance rather than investigate new approaches.

[bodiebill]

1 hour ago, Huubster said:

In my system, with an Innuos Zen Mini as a source for the U192, I still feel the UPL has the edge, but the difference is really small, and that is a huge compliment for the U192.

 

I'm not able to describe what it is that makes the UPL still the better sounding of the 2. I don't have the right words  to describe the difference, apart from that bit of magic that  comes with the sound coming from the UPL, it just grabs me even more.

 

I am tempted to try the UPL96ETL, but what turns me off is the laboriousness of creating the usb sticks with new naming conventions. I prefer folder browsing as with the SDTrans384: files are quickly converted to PCM and put on an SD card in one go, with inherited folder structure. If with the UPL I would be able to do something similar I would probably take the plunge.

[bodiebill]

7 hours ago, Huubster said:

 

Then you have @hopkins to the rescue..

 

He wrote a program which you can use to copy files to a stick conforming to the formatting required by the UPL.

 

You need Kid3 and dbPoweramp to be able to use it, but it works great. FLAC's are converted on the fly, album art is taken from the files, and the required numbering of the files is also taken care of automatically.

 

Though it's still a bit fiddly, also for me, I have to grab my laptop for using the UPL, put it on the ground right in front of my audio setup (my spouse hates it even more.. 🤣). But once that thing is playing you just forget about it all..

 

Wasn't it you living in Amsterdam by the way? I live in Muiderberg, so if you want to try it..

 

Thanks @Huubster I read about @hopkins handy SW. The reason I was still reluctant is maybe because my collection is approx. 60% classical and 20% jazz and for neither my database contains albums. For classical I use a work_performer_rec-date folders and for jazz rec-date session folders. So my database does not correspond to the commercial formats. Maybe hopkins' SW will still work, but the whole approach seems a bit contrived in my case.

 

Thanks for offering a trial. Appreciated! I was not aware you were so close. 🙂

It would not only enable me to find out the above for myself, but also we could compare this USB transport to my SD transport, i.e. 

 

    UPL96ETL ⇛ TosLink input ⇛ Terminator

vs

    SDTrans384 ⇛ I2S input ⇛ Terminator

 

I will send you a PM...

 

[bodiebill]

A little word of warning, although this may be very specific for my (faulty?) setup:

 

I had a problem with the U192ETF. Less than two weeks ago, while playing music with the ECD combo, I unplugged another device (the SDTrans384, not connected to anything but 230VAC power) from the mains. The music stopped and the U192ETF appeared to be dead. I called John and he generously offered to have a look and repair the U192. It appeared that both voltage regulators (LP5907-3V3 I/O power supply and LM3674-1V XMOS core voltage supply), were burned.

These regulators have an internal current limiter and thermal safeguard, so are both protected against higher than allowed values. The only logical explanation (John's words) was that the USB bus voltage was much higher than 6VDC.

 

Yesterday I received the U192 back and took all care to hook it up as intended, with no other devices running. It burnt through again immediately when I turned on the PC source: I heard clicks and there was a smell. From another long telephone conversation with John it appeared that my optimized PC should be the culprit. It may for some reason -- on start up -- send a very high USB bus voltage.

 

Again, I am pretty sure the fault was in my own setup, not in the U192, but as we are here to learn, I will describe this setup below. Perhaps someone has an idea about the root cause, and maybe it will lessen the chance that anyone else will experience this.

 

Paul Hynes SR4 19V => HDPlex 800W DC-ATX converter =>  Supermicro X11SAE-M mobo with Intel Core i3-6100T and 2x Apacer D31.23185S.001 4GB ECC DDR4 2666MHz => Elfidelity AXF-100 usb cleaner board (powered with 5V by the mobo) => Lush^1 => ISO Regen (powered by iPower 9V => LDOVR DXP-1A5DSC 7.1V) => Lush^2 => U192ETF.

 

I do not dare to connect this PC again to te U192, so in the meantime bought a NUC to replace it, while waiting for the newly to be repaired U192 (now in Beringe). This actually fits well as part of this new, more simplistic phase, as I am fed up with the endless PC audio tweaks. And with the great sound I get from the SDTrans384 (and soon maybe from the UPL96ETF) I can relax and pay less attention to the PC source.

 

P S @Huubster has kindly offered to demo his UPL96 for me some time soon, in my own setup. Looking forward!

 

 

[bodiebill]

2 hours ago, Huubster said:

You can always contact John, I confirmed myself too, before buying, that I could return the goods within 2 weeks with full refund. 

 

Actually, in The Netherlands that is a legal right for all internet purchase. 

[bodiebill]

28 minutes ago, hopkins said:

Could be a defect in the ISO Regen. Or maybe you "burned" something in the ISO Regen, and it is outputting 6v or more.

 

Possibly. John also suggested something like that.

[bodiebill]

25 minutes ago, hopkins said:

When you get the U192 back, I would be curious to know if you hear any difference with the NUC powered by the Paul Hynes. 

 

Will certainly try and report back. The NUC also takes 19VDC.

[bodiebill]

7 minutes ago, tapatrick said:

As the U192 is only powered by the USB voltage, as mentioned something has to be up with the IsoRegen. Do you have multimetre to test what voltage it is outputting? Is the LDVOR powering the IsoRegen? or the USB 5V?

 

The ISO Regen was powered with iPower 9V => LDVOR 7.1V.

I already sold it a few days ago before suspecting anything wrong with it, also because it always worked fine with the Terminator. This was after the first incident due to unplugging the SDTrans384. Of course, if the buyer appears to have a problem with the ISO Regen, I will refund him.

[bodiebill]

4 minutes ago, hopkins said:

What software do you normally use for playback? 

 

Mostly wtfplay with the console version of the Russian Album Player embedded.

The latter does a great job unpacking my wv-DSD files on the fly and converting them to anything I like.

Alternatively GentooPlayer as UPnP endpoint with mpd/upmpdcli.

But I guess I will also try foobar as you liked it so much. Did you run it under Windows?

[bodiebill]

21 minutes ago, hopkins said:

Yes, but to be honest, I am really unsure of anything I have tested so far. The only thing I am sure of is that LMS on Windows is not great, but that's about it 😞 

 

I'll report back in a few days...  

 

OK, take your time. Due to the 'SQ convergence' thing we are experiencing thanks to the ECD gear, we need a high level of sensitivity + intuition, helped by unhurried listening.

At this level the music becomes a holistic experience rather than a quick swipe to the left or right. 🙂

 

[bodiebill]

It remains a bit of a mystery to me. The second time around the U192's print board was damaged and now needs to be replaced (at a cost). It is disconcerting that the root cause is not yet known. I will take no risk when I get it back, and just connect the new NUC as is, only powered by the SR4 with 19V.

[bodiebill]

17 minutes ago, tapatrick said:

Very strange - I would check your USB cable just in case it has a short, unlikely but if it has the NUC will not make difference.

 

thanks, will do, it is a Lush.

[bodiebill]

This is how I checked the Lush cable:

https://photos.app.goo.gl/5TtCQ92fctQfgrS49

There were no shorts.

And I also know that the ISO Regen was not the culprit. In the consternation I forgot to mention that it was not in the chain when I connected the U192 after it came back from repair -- after which it got burned again.

Maybe a short somewhere in the PC. Detective work ongoing...

[bodiebill]

1 hour ago, tapatrick said:

Wondering if you checked the output of the suspect PC USB bus power using same method as in your photo?

 

I am no expert at this, and not sure I am doing the right thing.

 

I connected the USB connection of the non-powered suspect PC to a (uncommon) cable with USB-A male on both sides, and then to the USB-A female (see pic above) with the bare wires at the other end. All wire combo's have ample resistance except for the black-red combo, which starts with showing 10 or 20 Ohm, which to me looks very low.

 

However when I do exactly the same test on another PC that is powered on, the red and black combo appears shorted (0 Ohm). This PC is running normal: I am typing this message on it.

[bodiebill]

2 hours ago, tapatrick said:

Okay. It's not so easy to do this by text, but have you also tried reading what the voltage is, from powered up suspect PC USB? (taken very carefully from the exposed red/black wires)  

 

Found it!

When reading the voltage at startup from a normal USB bus the voltage is 5.25. However from the Elfidelity AXF-100 bus it jumps to 12.25V. The Elfidelity manual says that the internal power should come from a SATA power cable, but this is dangerous! A SATA DOM 5V power connection should be used. A 12V SATA power connection is not stepped down to 5V. Pfff...

Thanks @tapatrick  for your suggestions!

[bodiebill]

3 hours ago, hopkins said:

I assume you sold it because there was no longer a clear benefit with the U192? 

 

Indeed, there was a difference still (with IR slightly smoother, without slightly clearer), but one was not necessarily better than the other. And I am more gearing towards simplicity nowadays.

 

After finding and solving the peaking voltage problem, the 'suspect PC' is now running beautifully again. Tomorrow a NUC will arrive 😐 but at least it will enable me to compare it with the optimized PC when using the ECD combo, which I hope will be repaired before long.

[bodiebill]

1 hour ago, Ben75 said:

John has never been eager to make a lot of money : this is clearly not his first objective/preoccupation. He largely prefer to keep in touch with people who want to appreciate music and want to improve his solutions via feedbacks.

 

 

From John I understand that ECdesigns ('Electronic Custom Designs') also makes non-audio related measuring equipment, and that the audio part resulted from his private passion. Perhaps that could partly explain the pricing.

 

By the way, I received my U192ETL back today. Quick service from ECD! I still have to hook it up...

[bodiebill]

4 hours ago, hopkins said:

Funny to read this: https://www.reddit.com/r/audiophile/comments/i7jaq2/does_anybody_have_impressions_about_this_dac/

 

In this thread there are two guys: One compares it to a PS directstream JR and found the EC to be far better. The other compared it to his Denafrips Terminator. According to him the EC sounds better from his PC, ...

 

And now that the U192 is back in my chain, I can confirm the latter. Playing from a NUC (no longer from my fully tweaked and optimized PC) with GentooPlayer as UPnP (mpd+upmpdcli), it is not very listenable direct into the Terminator, but very listenable with the ECD combo. So the latter apparently mitigates the network noise well. Source independence? Well, no, not that. I can even hear the difference between using JRiver (so so) and Upplay (better!) as players on the control PC. And also I get a further improvement if I run network-less wtfplay with music on an Optane drive.

 

In any case the ECD combo does wonders. Bottom line I keep the Terminator to be able to use the SDTrans384 (which I certainly do not want to be without) and play native DSD.

 

[bodiebill]

14 hours ago, hopkins said:

P. S. @bodiebill In a client/server configuration (LMS, Roon, UPNP...) where the server and client are on two different PCs I would be curious to know if different server configurations give different results when using wifi. My assumption is that it should not. 

 

Never tried wifi. May be too weak in my audio room, but I will try if possible. May be a challenge though with GentooPlayer and especially wtfplay?

Actually, my preferred network solution is no network 🙂