ECdesigns

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On 1/12/2023 at 10:26 AM, Michael L said:Still wondering about buying a used previous generation EC D system but once the brave new world in audio they have fallen into disfavour in the same way as my MOS16 set up.

I wouldn’t believe everything that can be read online.  I still have the fractal Dac with UPL and haven’t felt a need to buy anything else. Daily I am convinced that the EC designs Dac is superb.

 

This was after a decade seeking a solution to the annoying  ‘digital’ sound quality of other highly rated (and expensive) components I tried. 

 

I believe from reports on here that the Power Dacs are even better but still am not tempted. It’s a great place to get to, to find ongoing satisfaction with a system and to just focus on the music. 

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16 hours ago, Michael L said:

Activity seems to have ceased in this thread. Reminicient or one of those western film scenes.

In my case it’s because I’m sitting back and enjoying the music! ;) and happily no longer chasing the elusive goal of audio satisfaction. 

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I’ve been in touch with Gordon & John at EC Designs and there are new versions of the R & S powerdacs in the pipeline.  More news in the next few weeks/months.  

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6 hours ago, Superdad said:

And with higher (more standard) 2V output level. 

The new S version will be able to drive 4-8 ohm speakers directly with 20 watts output. The same technology will be used in the R version, both vertical and flat enclosure. 

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On 7/3/2023 at 1:04 PM, matthias said:

Means that it can be placed into a rack?

Thx

 

Matt

Yes will be similar to the powerdac B format. 

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1 hour ago, matthias said:

My understanding is that V means vertical and both R and S have volume control ???

 

Matt

Yes that is what I have been told.

The R models have volume control but need power amp. The SX will be able to output 20 watts to drive speakers directly. And all sound better than previous. The SX now sounds better than using with tube amps. 

The X stands for the new technology brought about by purchased drivers no longer being in spec so were unusable and they had to adapt the DAC boards.  

 

First available model in next few months will be the the RXV. 

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See EC Designs website for the new PowerDac range. No prices yet. 

https://www.ecdesigns.nl/

https://www.ecdesigns.nl/en/shop

I'm very curious about the SX as it has enough output now and means I could drastically simplify (and sell off) my system...

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On 8/15/2023 at 10:04 PM, Superdad said:

Sorry, I meant to be asking about the BX and RX.  I'm not interesting in the speaker-driving SX with giant 3dB steps.

The user guides, timing or prices are not available yet on site but says this for RX:

Integrated linear mains power supply, factory set at 115 / 230V operation, 2-way Euro 8 mains socket. 192/24 Toslink DAPI receiver, low jitter masterclock and integrated bit-perfect tester (bit-perfect playback is recommended for optimal music reproduction quality). Integrated lossless 25 step (1.5dB/step) volume control (25mV ... 1.7V rms) and no lossy analogue circuits or components in the signal path. Local volume control keys integrated in the 7 segments LED display (push left - / right + on the display) and optional rechargeable IR remote control. Headphones (32 Ohms and up) can be connected using a RCA to 3.5mm jack socket adapter cable, durable anodised aluminium housing. Download the User Guide for more information and specifications.

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4 hours ago, Superdad said:

Thanks!  I knew that the level steps 1.5dB for the RX (versus the 3dB steps of the SX), but missed the slightly higher 1.7V max output level. That’s a little better and just might get me to the ear splitter level I sometimes enjoy. 

I hope the BX offers that output level as well.

I'm hoping the same  :). I just wish I could try these out in order to decide: the RX to get rid of a pre-amp and the SX to get rid of all amplification - very radical but agree the 3dB steps are a bit crude..

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4 hours ago, Superdad said:

I hope the BX offers that output level as well.

PowerDAC-BX

Basic DAC with discrete multibit fractal-7 matrix DA converter mainly intended for driving (pre) amps.

Built-in 115/230V linear power supply, 2-pole Euro 8 power supply connection. 192/24 Toslink DAPI receiver with low jitter master clock, power LED and locked indicator. Fixed 1.7V rms output voltage on RCA outputs and no lossy analog circuits or components in the signal path. Headphones (32 Ohm and above) can be connected with a suitable external attenuator, durable anodised housing. Download the User Guide for more information and specifications.

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all the new EC DACs are available now with prices...

https://www.ecdesigns.nl/en/shop

 

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Just ordered the PowerDac SX and should arrive in a couple of days. It's the only addition I've considered for some time. If it's what it promises, I'll have a very simple system and will most likely be selling some much loved components... Will be very curious to see if the Memory Player continues to make any difference or not.

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Just plugged in the new PowerDac SX - just one box.  I've been listening for an hour or 2 - streaming via toslink, through Macbook pro, CD player (audiolab 6000CDT) and even the TV. Shockingly good and seamless SQ from top to bottom! The transparency is a revelation, spine tingling.

 

We've all heard the hyperbole many times before but I have to say this is awesome, simply WOW!, incredible clarity mixed with manuka honey pouring into the ears.  Gordon & John have conquered the digital dilemma in my opinion, certainly for me. Havn't been this excited about audio for a while.. And there is no question about Bass being light.

 

Looks like I'll be selling my beloved Decware Amps among other items...

 

 

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On 12/17/2023 at 5:42 PM, M_audio said:

Xactly my experience!

And your new PowerDAC SX should be even better than the prior version.
But i was also surprised, didnt xpect this level of transparency and speed and naturalness. Somethin' Else album now sounds pretty close to what i had with my 5k analogue system (fully balanced from MC to the amp). In some aspects even better - the groove factor with PowerDAC is even better and instruments are clearer. 

Why should bass be light  😆

Yes indeed.  The SX is really special all in one box!  I loved the Fractal Dac (with the U192ETL) but was tempted to make my system super simple and say goodbye to tweaking.
The SX really works magic with the Omega super alnicos. And doesn’t seem to mind what feeds it. So it doesn’t get much simpler than this.  I enjoyed the journey to get here but I can say this is my last purchase. So glad I trusted the  reports of the new models. 
Regarding the bass comment, I read some comments about bass being light with the powerdacs, so was responding to that but it’s not that important. 

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6 hours ago, matthias said:

Please, can you shed some light on this point?

Any comparisons to Macbook?

Thanks

Here you go. The memory player has USB out, so I compared this with USB out of my old Macbook pro - both through the usb to toslink U192ETL that I have to feed the SX. There is no difference that I can detect streaming Tidal. That wasn't the case before and its because of the PowerDAC SX. Convinces me that the DAC has always been the weakest link. All the tweaking, soldering, making and swopping cables, power supplies, etc over the last decade was fun but the elephant in the room was the DAC all along. I still find it hard to accept that the source does not really matter, the conversion from digital to analogue seems to be everything. EC designs have cracked it in my opinion - and the amplification in the SX really adds to the magic.

 

There is so much headroom and range with the amplification. Even the volume is difficult to describe compared to other amps I've had. The sound is so clean it just gets MORE at higher volumes. According to their manual, it lists the 24 steps of volume output - from only a mere 179mV at zero to 11.31V at step 24 (max). As my speakers are full range and sensitive, moderate listening into 8ohms is in the range of settings 10-12, which is only 1mV to 1.42mV output (82mW to 161mW). The max I've gone up to is 18 with toslink from a TV through the system, which is enough and equivalent to only 1.29W output. Some recordings are adequate at very low volume settings. I've not had this range of amplification sensitivity before - and crystal clarity due to the absence of distortion.

 

I've really lost interest in comparisons. Toslink out of the Macbook pro into the SX (or toslink out of CD player) is my preference now as its super simple, no more headless, management of the beloved but quirky memory player. I use a simple 3 way toslink splitter/switch to feed the various toslink sources into the SX. I've also tried without this switch, swopping the toslink input directly into the back of the SX and doesn't make any difference. I havn't even bothered trying different toslink cables...

 

Seriously though, the airiness, depth, sweetness, range and transparency on good recordings is breathtaking - even after several days listening. You really get to hear into the fullness of the recordings, so that's where my attention is now, whether streaming or from CD.

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9 minutes ago, Muzikmann said:

Taptrick! Thanks for the positive feedback!  It's nice to know that a Macbook pro and the Memory Player sound the same on the SX.  ECDesigns have achieved something remarkable as this will save me money on a music server.  I really like the simplicity of the SX, but I am looking at the Qualio IQ speakers which are 89db into 4ohms, so I am thinking the RX with a dedicated amplifier would work better.

The SX gives up to max 14W at 4ohms.  I’d recommend considering it, but only if that would be enough power for you.  

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7 hours ago, Khronos said:

The IQs are said to love power, though. So it's a case of think less PowerDAC SX and more Schiit Tyr levels of power.

Crikey, 350w into 4 ohms. Should heat the room in winter...

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17 hours ago, Muzikmann said:

Yes, hence my consideration for the RX with a dedicated power amplifier.

It’s an interesting question and exploration then as to what combo of amp and speakers to add after the RX.
 

After the SX the only consideration that could make any difference are the speakers. And obviously they need to be sensitive due to the power output.

 

I don’t know the technicalities of the SX but the amplification is special as is obviously the digital conversion.
 

My speakers only need 2 watts to sing. And that choice would likely also depend on the kind of music you prefer to listen to.  
 

I wanted to share that I have found a happy solution to a very long and relatively expensive search. Money that would have made more sense putting in my pension! Heyho. 

 

Music preferences have some bearing on speaker / amplification choice and my preferences are intimate guitar singer/songwriters (not only but mostly) or small jazz groups. I like to really hear and feel the soul and emotion of the music with no digital artefacts to distract from the enjoyment. 
 

Other music, ie large classical pieces or rock also sound really excellent especially if there is a large and deep soundstage. It’s just that I found myself drawn to finding a system that would produce a truly convincing, natural sounding human voice, because of the enjoyment and  intimacy this brings.
 

This has been solved in my opinion and because of this it has an obvious impact on all other areas of the SQ. No doubt the Omega Super Alnicos play a part in this solution and in an ideal world it would be interesting to try other speakers. 
 

I have a pair of subwoofers that I’ve not had time to test out yet - or even if they will work with the SX. 

 

In my humble opinion there is no need with this offering from EC Designs to spend time and money on testing different expensive sources, ram chips, capacitors, cables, black magic disks (yes I’ve been there) etc etc. Unless that is your pleasure of course.  
 

One thing to mention is that for the purists  the volume ‘steps’ on the SX are not smooth as in a usual volume knob, and probably not incremental enough. This doesn’t bother me as I don’t change volume much and a small price to pay for this kind of SQ excellence and enjoyment. 

Of course as always YMMV.  
 

PS the EC designs are now on (pre) order in the UK at Elise Audio (info thanks to Hopkins over on What’s Best Forum) and are slightly cheaper than buying direct from Holland as I did. Although if you do not want to wait it’s probably quicker still to order direct from EC Designs. 

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1 hour ago, Michael L said:

Good to hear EC Designs are now selling at a UK dealer. I've just had a look at their website. Close to pulling the trigger on the RX which I think is worth the extra ££ for the volume control - so useful for headphones where a bit perfect signal is needed so cannot be controlled on - in my case - the MacBook

Yes, The SX and RX both have the IR remote volume control. RX outputs max 1.7V and the SX supplies max 11.31V output.

I'd reference back to the EC manuals as I'm not sure the copy on the Elise website is right for each product.

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On 12/26/2023 at 2:44 AM, Khronos said:

It sounds plenty stable, not strained as if it was clipping. More like it does not want to give more volume (somehow) since clipping is like a hard stop at the dynamics.

 

It could also be Stephane's speakers, since they are drivers meant to go in a vented box driven open baffle. Tapatrick has way better optimized speakers, perhaps he could fill us in regarding dynamics? (I know for a fact Omegas are extremely dynamic by nature, almost on the level of horn speakers. So if he feels they are lacking in the dynamics then it's probably the way the PowerDAC is designed, which might prompt ECDesigns to make an external buffer for it).

 

How good is the Combo with dynamic music? (1812, Thick as a Brick, Akira OST, etc)

The Dynamics are super. I don't tend to focus on one aspect of the SQ as the SX has a holistic quality that is very satisfying but I did try those pieces of music for you guys... :). I tried with 1812 and Jethro Tull and there is no problem with dynamics. The cannons in 1812 are a real shock!

 

As mentioned I think the pairing of speakers with the SX is of utmost importance. You really need a sensitive speaker to benefit from the power rating and the distortion free sound from the SX - mine are 94.5db. Would love to try 100db versions - ie Finale Audio’s Kensington Speakers, but that is a whole world of experimentation I'm not going down...

 

What I notice most is the quality of recordings and how different they can be in. The bass (if it is in the recording) is enough with the super alnicos and I have also tried 2 Rel subwoofers that I plug in sometimes. This extends the low end nicely when set properly, making the sound more immersive.

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1 hour ago, Khronos said:

 

That's great to hear! Then we can scratch my theory and chalk that down to the ECDesigns recommended speakers (I cannot blame them at all, speaker design can be a doozy). I'm sure then the sound must be crazy good, my instinct tells me the weight of the Hemp Cone must really blend well with the sheer immediacy of the PowerDAC.

 

I have heard speakers up to the half-a-million Euro mark, and I find the Omegas more immersive than them. The horn speakers I've heard were nice, but one-party trickers as well. The dynamics might be better than single drivers, but they were nowhere near as holistic and there's definitely discontinuity under the horn (at least the sets I've heard, which had direct radiators underneath). I personally think that Omega Loudspeakers are amongst the best speakers commercially available out there regardless of price. They will not impress at first, but you've known for years by now that they are special.

That's interesting to hear your experience of the Omegas and I've read similar reports. I did a fair bit of research and reading reviews before deciding on the Super Alnicos and havn't regretted it. (Possibly the Super Alnicos high output at 97db would be an improvement). They are the only part of my system that has lasted the course. Everything else has been changed a few times. 

 

Would be curious to hear the EC Designs recommended open Baffle speakers at 102dB / 2ohm...

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9 hours ago, yogibear said:

Further impressions on SX:

 

1. Very very dark background.

2. Explosive dynamics.

3. Unreal details.

4. Smooth midrange.

5. Staggering bass. 
 

It’s getting very “Goosebumpy” !!!! No words to explain…. (Improving with break in… perhaps) 

Yep, thats it. Well said

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On 1/2/2024 at 4:22 AM, yogibear said:

Further impressions on the SX:

 

The bass bloomed like a flower with time. What’s baffling is, looks like the bass extension on my bookshelf speakers extended by itself while playing through the SX. Despite the volume at the SX, be it at just 15 on 88dB BS or full throttle 24, the distortion is non-existent and I hear low low end notes from some recordings that never existed before ! 
 

How about a 40 watter DAC in future ????

Agree there is zero distortion on the SX volume and stays remarkable at any setting. The volume is as magic as the DAC (its basically a resistor attenuator). I wouldn't see the point of buying an SX and adding an amp. The BX is for that surely.

 

On some recordings even on lowest settings the volume is enough for late night listening and agree that the bass stays significant at any setting, as opposed to usual amps that need more power (with more distortion) for more bass output.....

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3 minutes ago, Marijn said:

...The wide bandwidth, huge dynamics and zero distortion are very impressive at first...

Not just at first... :))

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2 hours ago, matthias said:

OK, thanks,

so the question is SX standalone vs BX plus pre/power vs RX plus poweramp.

the big question is which one is Matthias going to finally go for...  😂