very good article in The Atlantic on Classical music and the mess digital tagging has done to it.

[Daudio]

I am the tagging editor for NativeDSD...

For our stuff, I tag track #, Name (which is track name), Artist, Album, Conductor, Composer, Other Artist (typically a soloist), Year, Genre, Sub Genre, Label, Catalog # and ISRC.

 

Ted,

 

In what context do you assign track #'s within a release ?

 

Are there any other Music Library Managers that allow user defined metadata fields besides JRiver ?

[Snowmonkey]

Well there's no doubt that Windows is garbage - the worst OS there is (even Linux is better), but it's what I've got for my computer-based music, so there it is.

 

George, how about you get a big jar and you put $1 in it every time you post about how much you hate Windows. In no time you'll have enough for a Macbook and you'll be able to leave Windows behind forever and hopefully stop hijacking threads which have nothing to do with OS preferences.

[Audio_ELF]

For our stuff, I tag track #, Name (which is track name), Artist, Album, Conductor, Composer, Other Artist (typically a soloist), Year, Genre, Sub Genre, Label, Catalog # and ISRC.

Ted, how do you go with collaborations? Where there are multiple artists for a track? What about (for example) an opera where there are multiple soloists which vary per track?

 

I'm not getting at you by the way, just pointing out the added complications when (for example) you want to be able to search for all performances by a member of an ensemble.

 

As David was commenting, look at IMDB for the imfor action readily available for films ... AllMusic / Rovio is a step in the right direction for music.

[NOMBEDES]

George, how about you get a big jar and you put $1 in it every time you post about how much you hate Windows. In no time you'll have enough for a Macbook and you'll be able to leave Windows behind forever and hopefully stop hijacking threads which have nothing to do with OS preferences.

 

 

 

 

Funny @ SmowM.

 

In the Computer Age why should I have to tag my music myself? That is what I pay for when I buy software and/or computers.

 

Just another problem with the computer part of "Computeraudio". IMO.

[ted_b]

Ted, how do you go with collaborations? Where there are multiple artists for a track? What about (for example) an opera where there are multiple soloists which vary per track?

 

I'm not getting at you by the way, just pointing out the added complications when (for example) you want to be able to search for all performances by a member of an ensemble.

 

As David was commenting, look at IMDB for the imfor action readily available for films ... AllMusic / Rovio is a step in the right direction for music.

 

Totally agree, we currently have no clean answers for Operas, etc. Our site search engine centers on only those tags I mention (and "other artist(s)" is a fairly large generic bucket).

 

For compilations (that we have tagging rights to) we use each track's artist as the artist (which JRiver then assigns its compilation tag called "multiple artists" for album-artist, if set up that way) and the original album reference is only in the pdf.

[ted_b]

Funny @ SmowM.

 

In the Computer Age why should I have to tag my music myself? That is what I pay for when I buy software and/or computers.

 

Just another problem with the computer part of "Computeraudio". IMO.

 

I see Computer Audio in its infancy, and as such we all have a say in the standards or best practices that eventually get recognized. Currently there are multiple ways to skin each cat, yes. It's a problem? I guess...I see it more as a challenge.

[tmkirst]

Funny @ SmowM.

 

In the Computer Age why should I have to tag my music myself? That is what I pay for when I buy software and/or computers.

 

Just another problem with the computer part of "Computeraudio". IMO.

 

To put a finer point on it, it is neither a computer nor a software issue. The fact that something can be tagged means the hardware and software exists and is functional. It is a content issue.

 

I think the frustration with "computeraudio" ought not to be assigned to the technology, but COULD be assigned to the label/distributor. The technology is simply being underused, made worse when we have a glimpse of the potential computerization can provide.

 

Incompletely tagged music computer files would be similar to providing an album in a blank cover. Don't think folks would be reasonable to blame the album grooves and land space between tracks for a blank record cover, right?

[Jabs1542]

It's not just classical, it's everywhere. Two good examples, I have all of The Beatles albums, some of them show Rock for the Genre, some show Pop. Same with Led Zeppelin, some show Rock, some show Classic Rock. So these are single groups that over time they (most likely the labels) changed the Genre for their music. If I took these as straight rips and didn't correct the tags myself then when I searched through a Genre to the Artist I would not see all thier albums.

 

Of course it's far worse with Classical because we can't even agree "what" to tag mere less how to tag it.

[gmgraves]

George, you may not like Windows but your pronouncements about Windows, JRiver and other things indicate that you aren't able to use them successfully. If other people can use them successfully, then you are just commenting on your own limitations.

 

 

EEHHHH! Thanks for playing! I know Windows like the back of my hand - and that's the problem. I also know MacOS and Ubuntu Linux as well as various flavors of Unix. Knowing all these computer OSes as well as I do, gives me what I think is a unique perspective on the strengths and weaknesses of all of them. In my experience, people generally put-up with the weaknesses of Windows simply because it's all they've ever used and they literally don't know any better. That is to say, they merely assume that Windows' clumsiness is just the way computers are because they've never experienced anything better.

 

I can and do use all the software you mention successfully, but that doesn't mean that I am blind to the faults of these products. It's because I understand so well, what's going on, that it makes me wonder (out loud most of the time) why these applications and OSes don't work any better than they do. I don't see any excuse, for instance, for JRiver's UI to be so poorly designed, or why Windows gets in the user's way so much or why it takes more work on the part of the user to do almost anything in Windows than it does on a Mac. Mac OSX is far from perfect either, but for the most part, it's light-years ahead of Windows (which gets more frustrating, seemingly, with every new version). As I said before, JRiver's Media Player is very powerful, but I dare say that most users aren't getting 1/10th out of it what it's capable of doing, because it's not readily apparent how to do many of the neat things of which the application is capable.

 

I daresay that people who think that they are "using these products successfully" are merely doing simple tasks and are unaware of the depth of these products' capabilities because they have never actually tried to plumb them.

[Snowmonkey]

EEHHHH! Thanks for playing! I know Windows like the back of my hand - and that's the problem. I also know MacOS and Ubuntu Linux as well as various flavors of Unix. Knowing all these computer OSes as well as I do, gives me what I think is a unique perspective on the strengths and weaknesses of all of them. In my experience, people generally put-up with the weaknesses of Windows simply because it's all they've ever used and they literally don't know any better. That is to say, they merely assume that Windows' clumsiness is just the way computers are because they've never experienced anything better.

 

I can and do use all the software you mention successfully, but that doesn't mean that I am blind to the faults of these products. It's because I understand so well, what's going on, that it makes me wonder (out loud most of the time) why these applications and OSes don't work any better than they do. I don't see any excuse, for instance, for JRiver's UI to be so poorly designed, or why Windows gets in the user's way so much or why it takes more work on the part of the user to do almost anything in Windows than it does on a Mac. Mac OSX is far from perfect either, but for the most part, it's light-years ahead of Windows (which gets more frustrating, seemingly, with every new version). As I said before, JRiver's Media Player is very powerful, but I dare say that most users aren't getting 1/10th out of it what it's capable of doing, because it's not readily apparent how to do many of the neat things of which the application is capable.

 

I daresay that people who think that they are "using these products successfully" are merely doing simple tasks and are unaware of the depth of these products' capabilities because they have never actually tried to plumb them.

For instance, with Windows, often just getting Windows to load the proper USB DAC driver almost takes an act of Congress! I've spent inordinate amounts of time getting Windows to choose the driver I need to use. Often, even when I've disabled the default driver (for the laptops's internal speakers) Windows still won't enable the driver for whatever external USB DAC or USB/SPDIF converter I'm using, even though it shows up in the audio window with a green checkmark beside it!

 

Hmmm, I've never had a problem getting Windows to use the driver I need. I've even been able to establish a hierarchy of default audio drivers, so that if one or more audio devices is not connected, Windows defaults to the next driver in the hierarchy for which a device is connected.

 

George, I know you know Windows "like the back of your hand", but do you realise that changing the default audio driver makes no difference if your player software is not configured to use the default driver? I don't use iTunes, but having a quick look, it does not seem to have an option to use any driver other than the one specified in System Preferences (OSX). JRMC with Windows, on the other hand, gives you the option to directly select the driver you wish to use OR to use the system default. The result is that if JRMC is set to use the laptop's internal speakers, changing the system default will make no difference.

[gmgraves]

Hmmm, I've never had a problem getting Windows to use the driver I need. I've even been able to establish a hierarchy of default audio drivers, so that if one or more audio devices is not connected, Windows defaults to the next driver in the hierarchy for which a device is connected.

 

George, I know you know Windows "like the back of your hand", but do you realise that changing the default audio driver makes no difference if your player software is not configured to use the default driver? I don't use iTunes, but having a quick look, it does not seem to have an option to use any driver other than the one specified in System Preferences (OSX). JRMC with Windows, on the other hand, gives you the option to directly select the driver you wish to use OR to use the system default. The result is that if JRMC is set to use the laptop's internal speakers, changing the system default will make no difference.

 

 

Well, I'm not using iTunes on Windows. In fact, it's not even installed on my Toshiba laptop. I only use JRiver Media Player on Windows. I also use I.E. on Windows to stream Boston Symphony concerts on demand from WCRB in Boston. The driver that has suddenly refused to load is for the NAD D 7050 which I'm using as a digital "front-end" for my second system up here in the Reno Nevada area where I have recently relocated. Whether I'm using my laptop with the NAD D7050, my AudioQuest DragonFly, or my iFi iUSB, Windows 7 is reluctant (recalcitrant is probably more accurate) to load the driver. I hook-up the USB device, start the music and imagine my chagrin to find out that the driver that's being used is not the driver for the USB device I'm trying to use, but is the internal speaker driver for the Toshiba! The driver for the device I want to use is often there, all right, it even has a green check-mark next to it, but the internal speakers are what's actually playing! I can usually get the proper driver to work if I fiddle with the thing enough (often I end-up disabling the internal speaker driver), but it shouldn't be this difficult. How primitive to still be using USB drivers for everything. Apple has shown that it's not necessary to enable USB audio that way. Admittedly, Windows might sound slightly better than OS X, but still, can't a company as big as Microsoft figure out a way to eliminate the need for drivers while maintaining Windows' slight edge in SQ?

[Fitzcaraldo215]

George - you have definitely succeeded in changing my opinion. Not of Windows, but of you. If you are so obsessed with your own issue that you need to disrespect everyone else in this thread by posting about your totally OT thoughts in complete disregard for the topic, even after being reminded gently several times, what sort of malicious person are you?

 

I used to think you were a reasonable and intelligent guy from many other posts. I no longer think that.

[gmgraves]

George - you have definitely succeeded in changing my opinion. Not of Windows, but of you. If you are so obsessed with your own issue that you need to disrespect everyone else in this thread by posting about your totally OT thoughts in complete disregard for the topic, even after being reminded gently several times, what sort of malicious person are you?

 

I used to think you were a reasonable and intelligent guy from many other posts. I no longer think that.

 

 

Sorry to see that you feel that way. I see myself as merely defending myself from attacks by others, but if you see it differently, then that's your prerogative and your right and who am I to try to change your mind?

[Fitzcaraldo215]

Sorry to see that you feel that way. I see myself as merely defending myself from attacks by others, but if you see it differently, then that's your prerogative and your right and who am I to try to change your mind?

 

George - there was nothing even resembling an attack on you here in this thread until you decided to ramble off into one of your rants. Rant as much as you wish, but not here. It is OT. Start a new thread or whatever.

[tmkirst]

Another beat in the drum beat;

http://www.sinfinimusic.com/uk/features/blogs/christopher-gillett/apple-music-the-problem-with-classical-music-streaming-and-storage-2015

 

If we can sequence the genome...