Optical Network Configurations

[hltf]

37 minutes ago, SQFIRST said:

 

 

@hltf wish you success with your journey! 

Nothing right or wrong about it but just asked to better understand what you expect to achieve. The TP link and the 10gtek are close in quality as to the electronics and quality. I see now that you are planning to move from an SC type cable connection to the LC type. This will result in changes related to the SFP module, yes but the overall quality of your optical setup will likely remain quite similar. This is where you are seeing folks mention the Optical module deluxe/EtherRegen/LHY switch etc. Hope this helps.

 

Thanks, thats a bit disappointing to hear.  Maybe I read more than I should have into the earlier remarks about Finisair etc or maybe just misunderstood them! I guess I will just have to wait to see how it all works out. 

[SQFIRST]

@hltf The 1318s are a praised for a reason and you may well find enough improvement to be happy. Just the fact that you are using a good power supply makes me think that this change will not be enough though, just a feeling :)

[audiobomber]

On 4/11/2024 at 11:59 AM, hltf said:

Also, if there is another converter that performs better that info would be much appreciated.  

I agree with @SQFIRST.. From MC220M to 10GTek gigabit FMC is a lateral move. (I own an MC220L & a 10GTek Gigabit).

[audiobomber]

12 minutes ago, hltf said:

Thanks, thats a bit disappointing to hear.  Maybe I read more than I should have into the earlier remarks about Finisair etc or maybe just misunderstood them! I guess I will just have to wait to see how it all works out. 

Can't you use a Finisar 1318 in the MC220M? The Finisar 1318 works great in my MC220L.

[SQFIRST]

Something often overlooked when setting up an optical network isolation is the power domain separation to support it. Sharing power supplies or circuit with components on both sides of the optical connection defeats the isolation to some degree, sometimes critically. An effective optical isolation setup takes into consideration that all components on the 'sending' end are on a separate power domain. This way the 'receiving' end of the optical connection can be within a power isolated domain and the only side where the best power supplies are targeted. This requires careful setup and some extra effort in separating components but it really is worth the time. 

 

Also something I picked up from this helpful thread and on the network isolation thread so sharing back as a reminder.

[hltf]

14 minutes ago, audiobomber said:

Can't you use a Finisar 1318 in the MC220M? The Finisar 1318 works great in my MC220L.

Perhaps you can, but it didn't appear that way to me when I looked yesterday. That's why I figured that I needed the 10GTeks.  The opening for the SFP in the MC220CM seems wider and different than the one in 10GTek from photos too - see links below.  And I have never tried pulling anything out of the TP-Link.  The Finisairs which I have received didn't look like they would fit in the TP-Link when I looked yesterday.  When the 10GTek shows up today I will take another look.

 

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1568454-REG/tp_link_mc200cm_gigabit_multi_mode_media_converter.html?msclkid=d4e74930b8fc19816e9f2f292941f1e8

 

https://www.cdw.com/product/tp-link-gigabit-sfp-fiber-media-converter/3280326?cm_ven=acquirgy&cm_cat=bing&cm_pla=NA-NA-TP-Link_NE&cm_ite=3280326&s_kwcid=AL!4223!10!73736269707892!73736164072284&ef_id=eff979a5631a158766951fbcf2237647:G:s

 

Thanks

[audiom3]

@hltf You are correct with the provided link on the TP Link FMC.  It won't accept transceivers as it has one on-board already.  Hopefully you find the Finisar 1318s to provide a boost in SQ.  I know I wasted a fair bit of money on FMCs, transceivers, fiber patch cable, LPS units and on and on.  But experimentation comes at a cost for those willing.

[audiobomber]

7 hours ago, hltf said:

Perhaps you can, but it didn't appear that way to me when I looked yesterday. That's why I figured that I needed the 10GTeks.  The opening for the SFP in the MC220CM seems wider and different than the one in 10GTek from photos too - see links below.  And I have never tried pulling anything out of the TP-Link.  The Finisairs which I have received didn't look like they would fit in the TP-Link when I looked yesterday.  When the 10GTek shows up today I will take another look.

 

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1568454-REG/tp_link_mc200cm_gigabit_multi_mode_media_converter.html?msclkid=d4e74930b8fc19816e9f2f292941f1e8

 

https://www.cdw.com/product/tp-link-gigabit-sfp-fiber-media-converter/3280326?cm_ven=acquirgy&cm_cat=bing&cm_pla=NA-NA-TP-Link_NE&cm_ite=3280326&s_kwcid=AL!4223!10!73736269707892!73736164072284&ef_id=eff979a5631a158766951fbcf2237647:G:s

 

Thanks

I don't see the problem. The MC220CM has one ethernet port and two SFP ports, one GigaBit and one for lower speeds. Just pull the SFP out of the GB port and push the Finisar in its place.

[audiophilac]

9 minutes ago, audiobomber said:

I don't see the problem. The MC220CM has one ethernet port and two SFP ports, one GigaBit and one for lower speeds. Just pull the SFP out of the GB port and push the Finisar in its place.

doesn't look like its has SFP port. the connectors are SC

[audiobomber]

7 minutes ago, audiophilac said:

doesn't look like its has SFP port. the connectors are SC

Thanks, I see it now.

[hltf]

18 hours ago, SQFIRST said:

Something often overlooked when setting up an optical network isolation is the power domain separation to support it. Sharing power supplies or circuit with components on both sides of the optical connection defeats the isolation to some degree, sometimes critically. An effective optical isolation setup takes into consideration that all components on the 'sending' end are on a separate power domain. This way the 'receiving' end of the optical connection can be within a power isolated domain and the only side where the best power supplies are targeted. This requires careful setup and some extra effort in separating components but it really is worth the time. 

 

Also something I picked up from this helpful thread and on the network isolation thread so sharing back as a reminder.

Paying more attention now to this suggestion @SQFIRST, for which my thanks. Yes, I have heard this before, but in my earlier not extensive testing (admittedly) I found that it was actually a bit better in my case to have clean linear DC power for both TP-Links, even though both were being fed by the two outputs of the same Uptone JS-2.  I should revisit this to make sure when I make all these upcoming changes with the Finisars, 10GTeks etc.  Do you feel it could/should be better if I were to use an IFI SMPS for the first 10GTek (or TP-LINK) unit that is receiving ethernet signal from my Verizon router?  And feed the second 10GTek alone from the JS-2?

 

Also, as others here have suggested above, I have also thought of eventually moving from the 10GTeks to a combination of Sonore units or Sonore/Uptone units for the ethernet-optical-ethernet conversion.  Or maybe just a superior switch like the LHY that @audiom3  mentioned.  I figure I will first try and understand the options a bit and see what makes most sense based on the options available and how much potential SQ gain I might get from it relative to where I land now with the 10GTeks/Finisar/Corning. 

 

Thanks for all the very useful advice I have got here.

[audiobomber]

45 minutes ago, hltf said:

I found that it was actually a bit better in my case to have clean linear DC power for both TP-Links, even though both were being fed by the two outputs of the same Uptone JS-2.  I should revisit this to make sure when I make all these upcoming changes with the Finisars, 10GTeks etc.  Do you feel it could/should be better if I were to use an IFI SMPS for the first 10GTek (or TP-LINK) unit that is receiving ethernet signal from my Verizon router?  And feed the second 10GTek alone from the JS-2?

 I expect a JS-2 powering both will be better than an iPower + JS-2, especially since the second FMC is galvanically isolated from the downstream gear and DAC. Here's a post about this from @Superdad: 

 

 

[SQFIRST]

3 hours ago, hltf said:

Do you feel it could/should be better if I were to use an IFI SMPS for the first 10GTek

@hltf as you mentioned that you hear better quality when using the JS1 for both FMCs then there is no reason to change that. What I have observed is that the optical isolation setup lines up with the required power isolation/separation. Just look at what is connecting to each side (beyond just the FMCs) and you will get a good idea of how to rearrange. That is, if you are curios to get to optimal. Nothing wrong with sitting back and just enjoying the music as is.

[hltf]

8 hours ago, audiobomber said:

 I expect a JS-2 powering both will be better than an iPower + JS-2, especially since the second FMC is galvanically isolated from the downstream gear and DAC. Here's a post about this from @Superdad: 

 

 

Thanks very informative link here @audiobomber.

 

SQFIRST, what you say makes a lot of sense.

[jabbr]

On 4/12/2024 at 3:59 PM, hltf said:

Perhaps you can, but it didn't appear that way to me when I looked yesterday. That's why I figured that I needed the 10GTeks.  The opening for the SFP in the MC220CM seems wider and different than the one in 10GTek from photos too - see links below.  And I have never tried pulling anything out of the TP-Link.  The Finisairs which I have received didn't look like they would fit in the TP-Link when I looked yesterday.  When the 10GTek shows up today I will take another look.

 

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1568454-REG/tp_link_mc200cm_gigabit_multi_mode_media_converter.html?msclkid=d4e74930b8fc19816e9f2f292941f1e8

 

https://www.cdw.com/product/tp-link-gigabit-sfp-fiber-media-converter/3280326?cm_ven=acquirgy&cm_cat=bing&cm_pla=NA-NA-TP-Link_NE&cm_ite=3280326&s_kwcid=AL!4223!10!73736269707892!73736164072284&ef_id=eff979a5631a158766951fbcf2237647:G:s

 

Thanks

 

I just want to clarify this: The MC200CM does not use SFP modules at all, it directly accepts fiber terminated in SC connectors

 

99.9% of the discussion here uses fiber terminated in LC connectors which attach to SFP modules.

[Axiom05]

On 4/13/2024 at 12:12 AM, audiophilac said:

doesn't look like its has SFP port. the connectors are SC

The TP Link MC220L has a SFP port.

[jabbr]

For folks wanting low cost yet high performance and modern network switches that ... basically use a modern spec that mandates eye pattern testing for compliance and rejection of upstream jitter:

 

https://www.servethehome.com/mega-2-5gbe-switch-guide-update-with-21-new-models-added/

 

The added advantage of the newer SFP28 modules is that they have multirate support when used in a switch that supports multirate

[SQFIRST]

That's exciting to see the tech trickle down for home use.

(Home entertainment manufacturers really needs to move up from 1G for the jitter blocking benefit)

[pl_svn]

fw 17.2 brings a Spotify Connect SDK regression to 3.199.422 ? :-/

(... not that I am using Spotify 😂)

[TRHH]

FTLF1318P3BTL is now End Of Life:

 

Not sure if there is an direct substitute.

 

Torben

[audiophilac]

dual rate finisar 1475  😋

[TRHH]

32 minutes ago, audiophilac said:

dual rate Finisar 1475 

 

This one: FTLX1475D3BCV?

 

Torben

[audiom3]

3 minutes ago, TRHH said:

 

This one: FTLX1475D3BCV?

 

Torben

Yes. BCV is dual rate

[hltf]

On 4/11/2024 at 9:51 PM, Assisi said:

My experience is that the Cisco AOC is superior to any SFP and attached cable.  Important that it must be genuine Cisco.  There are copies available that are not genuine and do not perform so well.  The price quoted on the link for 1mt is low.  Listed at US$300 new .  Maybe the Ebay one is 2nd hand.

John

 

 

John:
I agree with your view of the Cisco 10G AOC. It does perform better than the Finisar TLF1318P3BTL on my 10GTeks.  

And overall sound improves with the 10GTeks and Ciscos (or Finisars) relative to my previous TP-Link MC220CM setup with SC connections.  I now get meaningfully better bass, more mid-range, more solid-sounding - all enough to make it worth the change. 

 

At some point in the next several months I will probably try substituting the second 10GTek with either an Uptone Ether-Regn or another reasonable audiophile optical-cum-ethernet switch.

[Assisi]

On 4/26/2024 at 10:41 AM, hltf said:

John:

 

At some point in the next several months I will probably try substituting the second 10GTek with either an Uptone Ether-Regn or another reasonable audiophile optical-cum-ethernet switch.

I am aware that many posters in this thread use an EtheREGEN.  I tried an EtheREGEN in my network.  I consider in my situation the device was not as beneficial as other switches with optical connection capabilities.  My AOC connection is between a SOtM sNH-10G +sCLK_EX, and a Melco S100.  My network also includes 3 x Waversa and 2 x Nordost switches connected RJ45. 

John