Optical Network Configurations

[TheFlash]

41 minutes ago, Assisi said:

Almost correct.  I do not count my Waversa filter reference as a switch.  The third switch and last in the network before the Filter is a Waversa Hub3.  On its own I was not overly impressed.  When it is connected though to the Filter something special happens.  There is a synergy between the two components.

 

In a review the reviewer said

 "   the WSmarthub brings changes to the overall structure, the W LAN-EXT1 can be said to express the
sophistication of the interior of the structure."

 

This is a bit off topic.  My initial post was about a DAC cable Vs the Cisoc AOC and where I  have the two AOC connected switches in my network.  Plus my interest in the Melco DAC cable.

 

John

Thanks. The reason I would suggest it’s sort of on-topic is that the effectiveness of a cable can in my experience varies based on where it’s installed = which two devices it’s connecting. For example, my own unsatisfactory experience of a DAC cable was between switch and streamer (the last stage of my network) and here an optical cable was far more effective at breaking the noise chain; elsewhere results my vary.

[TheFlash]

Apologies, I just checked and my cable was a Cisco AOC not DAC: optical then but where I used it 2 x Finisar plus OS2 was much more effective.

[Assisi]

19 hours ago, TheFlash said:

Apologies, I just checked and my cable was a Cisco AOC not DAC: optical then but where I used it 2 x Finisar plus OS2 was much more effective.

I have lost my enthusiasm for for SFPs and cables after discovering AOCs especially the Cisco genuine.

 

I do not like to change the network setup and leave as is if the outcome pleases me.  I find changes can become confusing.  The order of the sequence of the network switches and cables etc can have an impact on the listening SQ outcome.  I recently did change the order partly because it was suggested by others.  Plus, I acquired a Waversa Hub 3 which seems to have a beneficial synergy with a Waversa Filter.

 

When I acquired the Wavesa Hub 3 it prompted me to have all the Waversas connected to each other and last before the Helios DAC as the filter for me should be near the DAC.  With the change I removed a Sonore optical that was connected to a Ubquiti router via a 15mt Finisar Cisco compatible AOC.  The Ubiquiti is to isolate my digital network from all other house network activities.  Printer, Solar, Battery, House power regenerator etc. The other switches that I have are a SoTM, Melco and 2 X Nordosts which were originally after the 4 Waversa components.  The Waversa filter was last before the DAC.  The SoTM is now connected to the Ubquiti in with the 15mt AOC and out to the Melco with a Cisco genuine AOC. The Melco is RJ45 to the Nordosts and then RJ45 to the First Waversa the server CORE.  Bit complicated but this sequence change did achieve a surprising to me improvement.

 

I am not interested in swapping things around and will leave this Network sequence for the time being.  I consider that I have the best SQ that I have ever had.  The next thing that interests me is trying a Melco DAC cable between the SoTM and the Melco.

John

[TheFlash]

Thanks @Assisi for all the details. That’s probably the most complex network I’ve seen but as you say if it sounds so good then you’re not exactly incentivised to try tweaking eg the sequence further.  Enjoy, and thanks again.

[hltf]

On 3/31/2024 at 1:50 PM, audiom3 said:

Mikrotik CRR309 and CRS310 worked for me. I also have a cheapie from Binardat that works fine (currently in use w/ a 1318 transceiver). I don't see it for sale any longer though but there were several clones on Amazon at the time I purchased it. Just differing name badges.

I just noticed that the above Mikrotiks are claiming 1G switches now and not 10G? That's a strange move if true. 

Hello:

 

I am wondering whether anyone could please tell me if this pair of Open SFP Slot 1.25G/s Gigabit Fiber Ethernet Media Converters  that I found on Amazon will work for a pair of Finisar FTLF1318P3BTL that I just acquired?

AMAZON LINK 

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0C2TC91X3/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=A3DVPBHCZB4LFA&th=1

 

Thanks very much

[hltf]

13 hours ago, hltf said:

Hello:

 

I am wondering whether anyone could please tell me if this pair of Open SFP Slot 1.25G/s Gigabit Fiber Ethernet Media Converters  that I found on Amazon will work for a pair of Finisar FTLF1318P3BTL that I just acquired?

AMAZON LINK 

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0C2TC91X3/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=A3DVPBHCZB4LFA&th=1

 

Thanks very much

Also, if there is another converter that performs better that info would be much appreciated.  

[audiom3]

@hltf I own a pair of those FMCs but to be honest, I do not recall for certain if they work with Finisar 1318s.  Those were a bit more temperamental than 10Gtek FMCs.  I own many 10Gteks and they are quite versatile.  Here is a link:

 

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B06XZ7HXMR/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_image?ie=UTF8&th=1

 

But I have moved away from generic/less expensive FMCs completely, to ones made by LHY.  They're certainly not cheap but the price to improvement in SQ is well worth it to me.  I use their SW-6 switch as a 5:1 media converter and I also have their FMC between my NUC (running Roon ROCK) and fiber switch in my PC/server 'area'.  I just ordered a larger SW-10 switch to get all of my AV devices/endpoints onto one switch.  Still amazes me what a difference these switches/FMCs made - especially for movie soundtracks utilizing 5.1.4 Atmos.

 

 

[hltf]

5 hours ago, audiom3 said:

@hltf I own a pair of those FMCs but to be honest, I do not recall for certain if they work with Finisar 1318s.  Those were a bit more temperamental than 10Gtek FMCs.  I own many 10Gteks and they are quite versatile.  Here is a link:

 

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B06XZ7HXMR/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_image?ie=UTF8&th=1

 

But I have moved away from generic/less expensive FMCs completely, to ones made by LHY.  They're certainly not cheap but the price to improvement in SQ is well worth it to me.  I use their SW-6 switch as a 5:1 media converter and I also have their FMC between my NUC (running Roon ROCK) and fiber switch in my PC/server 'area'.  I just ordered a larger SW-10 switch to get all of my AV devices/endpoints onto one switch.  Still amazes me what a difference these switches/FMCs made - especially for movie soundtracks utilizing 5.1.4 Atmos.

 

 

@audiom3 Thank you!  This is incredibly helpful.  I ordered two 10GTeks and plan to use them with a pair of Finisar FTLF1318P3BTL.  For an optical cable I ordered this 1m LC-LC Duplex 9/125um Corning ClearCurve Single Mode Bend Insensitive Fiber which I read about further up in this overall thread.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/332640995810

 

Actually I also also saw this Brand New Cisco SFP-10G-AOC1M 10GBASE-AOC SFP+ Cable 1 Meter:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/116084899540

 

I believe I understood also above that some people think this Cisco AOC is better than the Finisairs with cable.  Is that right? 

 

[audiom3]

Yeah the ClearCurve will work great. I've no clue about an AOC because I've never experimented with them. 

 

Edit: since you appear to have fallen down the rabbit hole, I actually prefer these cables in my system. I have ClearCurve as well but pulled it out for these. 

 

SpeedyFiberTX – 1-Pack 1 Meter LC to LC Fiber Patch Cable, Corning SMF-28 Singlemode 9/125um Ultra Optical Fiber, Duplex, Yellow Riser OFNR Cable Jacket https://a.co/d/h5jeLzt

 

My entire LAN is now comprised of those Corning cables. 

[hltf]

16 minutes ago, audiom3 said:

Yeah the ClearCurve will work great. I've no clue about an AOC because I've never experimented with them. 

 

Edit: since you appear to have fallen down the rabbit hole, I actually prefer these cables in my system. I have ClearCurve as well but pulled it out for these. 

 

SpeedyFiberTX – 1-Pack 1 Meter LC to LC Fiber Patch Cable, Corning SMF-28 Singlemode 9/125um Ultra Optical Fiber, Duplex, Yellow Riser OFNR Cable Jacket https://a.co/d/h5jeLzt

 

My entire LAN is now comprised of those Corning cables. 

Thanks again @audiom3.  I might try the SpeedyFiber at some point.  I assume it is much better than the ClearCurve.

[audiom3]

45 minutes ago, hltf said:

Thanks again @audiom3.  I might try the SpeedyFiber at some point.  I assume it is much better than the ClearCurve.

Well, it started with one of my ClearCurve cables literally coming apart. I may have been unlucky with the construction on one of them. But in trying several different cables, I preferred the Corning SMF-28. In my system it seemed to bring about the most balanced sound. Maybe it's less sensitive to bending than the ClearCurve? I'm not exactly sure and when I called Corning, the CS rep didn't seem to know either 😄 

[hltf]

Thanks again @audiom3.  All very good to know.

[Assisi]

3 hours ago, hltf said:

 

 

I believe I understood also above that some people think this Cisco AOC is better than the Finisairs with cable.  Is that right? 

 

My experience is that the Cisco AOC is superior to any SFP and attached cable.  Important that it must be genuine Cisco.  There are copies available that are not genuine and do not perform so well.  The price quoted on the link for 1mt is low.  Listed at US$300 new .  Maybe the Ebay one is 2nd hand.

John

 

 

[Philippe Bill]

3 hours ago, Assisi said:

My experience is that the Cisco AOC is superior to any SFP and attached cable. 

 

 

Which Direct_Attach_Cable did you compare with ?

[Assisi]

50 minutes ago, Philippe Bill said:

Which Direct_Attach_Cable did you compare with ?

Finisar SFPP AOC O01and Ubquiti ?  Much lower in price than the Cisco!

John

[hltf]

8 hours ago, Assisi said:

My experience is that the Cisco AOC is superior to any SFP and attached cable.  Important that it must be genuine Cisco.  There are copies available that are not genuine and do not perform so well.  The price quoted on the link for 1mt is low.  Listed at US$300 new .  Maybe the Ebay one is 2nd hand.

John

 

 

Okay very good to know.  I'll be careful about this.  Thanks John @Assisi

[audiobomber]

16 hours ago, hltf said:

@audiom3 Thank you!  This is incredibly helpful.  I ordered two 10GTeks and plan to use them with a pair of Finisar FTLF1318P3BTL.  For an optical cable I ordered this 1m LC-LC Duplex 9/125um Corning ClearCurve Single Mode Bend Insensitive Fiber which I read about further up in this overall thread.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/332640995810

The SMPS that comes with the 10GTek is very poor. If you want to upgrade, you should look to 5V linear power. The next upgrade could be the Sonore opticalModule Deluxe, with the same linear supply.

 

We recently compared my oMD and Pardo MiniTeddy to a friend's LHY SW-10 in his very high resolution system. We both preferred the oMD, He intends to replace the SW-10 with an oMD or the EtherREGEN v2.

16 hours ago, hltf said:

 

Actually I also also saw this Brand New Cisco SFP-10G-AOC1M 10GBASE-AOC SFP+ Cable 1 Meter:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/116084899540

 

I believe I understood also above that some people think this Cisco AOC is better than the Finisairs with cable.  Is that right? 

 

Yes, some do, some don't. If you compare, please post here. From reading here and in other forums, I suspect you will find greater resolution with the Finisar setup and warmer tone with the Cisco. The way your system leans and your personal preferences will determine which suits you best. 

[audiom3]

@audiobomber I never tried the SMPS on any FMC, so I'm sure that you are right. I've always had a 5v LPS unit and even used a few Jameco Reliapro units. Never in my audio path but on video streamers' FMCs. But they seemed to work well. 

[SQFIRST]

There is networking and then there is the audio version of it :)

I just moved away from Corning SMF-28 to the bend-insensitive type, the opposite of @audiom3's experience. Just pointing out the variety of experience and not anything to contradict. I have some long fiber runs so that factors into it. For short 1M run if you manage to kink it up then it's on you! Jokes aside I did read up on the Corning site and there is such a thing as 'fiber fatigue'. The SMF-28's thinner core may well be playing into the perceived sound quality differences but also leading to the possible physical degradation or bend issues. That is the experience which I had reported just few posts back and @jabbr pointed out the Clearcurve.

 

Just another reminder that what is 'better' is a very complex answer and best not to figure that out without getting details and trying out for oneself.

 

 

 

 

 

[audiom3]

@SQFIRST Corning SMF-28 is bend-insensitive - in fact, ever slightly more-so than the ClearCurve specs (I can't imagine this being the audible differences though).  I have a 15m run from a switch next to my router --> switch behind my equipment rack.  You are right that a long run makes it easier to notice differences.  I think either cable in short runs would be fantastic.

I agree with you...  Better to me (higher frequency extension with less upper bass bloat, in my system/case) may not be what's better to someone/anyone else.  Some may think that SMF-28 sounds 'thinner' in their system.  But in my system it is just a bit more balanced/natural sounding.  Audio is fun 😅

[hltf]

2 hours ago, audiobomber said:

The SMPS that comes with the 10GTek is very poor. If you want to upgrade, you should look to 5V linear power. The next upgrade could be the Sonore opticalModule Deluxe, with the same linear supply.

 

We recently compared my oMD and Pardo MiniTeddy to a friend's LHY SW-10 in his very high resolution system. We both preferred the oMD, He intends to replace the SW-10 with an oMD or the EtherREGEN v2.

Yes, some do, some don't. If you compare, please post here. From reading here and in other forums, I suspect you will find greater resolution with the Finisar setup and warmer tone with the Cisco. The way your system leans and your personal preferences will determine which suits you best. 

Thanks a lot for the SQ insights @audiobomber. 

 

And yes, I do plan to use an Uptone JS-1 to feed both the 10GTeks.  For the moment I am using this same Uptone on my two connected TP-Link MC220CM FMC units.  These TP-Links will be replaced with the two 10GTeks fitted with the Finisair FTLF1318P3BTLs and connected using the Corning bend-insensitive connecting cable.  

 

[audiophilac]

Wonder if there's any difference between SM Ultra and SMF-28 Ultra.

I have Corning SM Ultra cables

[SQFIRST]

31 minutes ago, audiom3 said:

 Corning SMF-28 is bend-insensitive

Somehow I managed to get them wore out! Maybe it was just time for a new set in my case. Regardless, they do break down or can still cause bend issues as I experienced.

30 minutes ago, hltf said:

TP-Link MC220CM FMC units.  These TP-Links will be replaced with the two 10GTeks

What are you trying to achieve? Just asking so that folks responding to your questions can help you better. I do not see this change as being a big one and I say that because you mention using the Uptone JS-1 already, which is a high quality PS. Something like the OMD or ER, at least on the receiving end could make a bigger difference. It all depends on what you are connecting and trying to achieve.

[hltf]

19 minutes ago, SQFIRST said:

Somehow I managed to get them wore out! Maybe it was just time for a new set in my case. Regardless, they do break down or can still cause bend issues as I experienced.

What are you trying to achieve? Just asking so that folks responding to your questions can help you better. I do not see this change as being a big one and I say that because you mention using the Uptone JS-1 already, which is a high quality PS. Something like the OMD or ER, at least on the receiving end could make a bigger difference. It all depends on what you are connecting and trying to achieve.

Hi @SQFIRST 

I thought I understood from the discussion earlier on in this thread that having the Finisair FTLF1318P3BTLs would give me substantially better optical isolation than the TP-Links that I am currently using.  Am I wrong on that?  I wasn't really asking any new questions as I thought that to be the case based on how I read various people's experience here, so I decided to make the change on that basis.

[SQFIRST]

6 minutes ago, hltf said:

I thought I understood from the discussion earlier on in this thread that having the Finisair FTLF1318P3BTLs would give me substantially better optical isolation than the TP-Links that I am currently using. 

 

1 hour ago, hltf said:

For the moment I am using this same Uptone on my two connected TP-Link MC220CM FMC units

 

@hltf wish you success with your journey! 

Nothing right or wrong about it but just asked to better understand what you expect to achieve. The TP link and the 10gtek are close in quality as to the electronics and quality. I see now that you are planning to move from an SC type cable connection to the LC type. This will result in changes related to the SFP module, yes but the overall quality of your optical setup will likely remain quite similar. This is where you are seeing folks mention the Optical module deluxe/EtherRegen/LHY switch etc. Hope this helps.