QNAP HS-251 (fanless) vs. Synology DS214 Play

[lornecherry]

I'm trying to compare these two NAS's. The Synology is almost a no-brainer as it receives great reviews/compatibility here. The question is; would the QNAP be an equal choice, or even better? Or would the best choice be a more powerful Synology?

 

(The NAS will serve the Auralic Aires that has just arrived).

 

Capacity is not all that important (yes, I know that will come back to haunt me, but I will only store a couple Terabytes at most, as it will be dedicated to music and I don't have that much music compared to others I've read about on this forum...with SSDs and HD space cheap as dirt, I'm not worried about space/cost). I'm also not concerned about building a redundant RAID server, as this will not run 24/7 and be only switched on before I play music. At best, I will RAID 0 for performance if needed; though I doubt that makes a difference, since that is rarely the bottleneck in these types of servers.

 

1) Will I get better sound with a more powerful NAS (I may, at sometime, stream multichannel DSD) or from the fan-less NAS?

 

2) Will SSD's improve the sound in the NAS compared to the 'standard' WD Red?

 

3) The attraction to the QNAP is that it is fan-less...and I'm from the school of thought where "everything matters". Hence a NAS running fan-less, with LPS and perhaps a couple SSDs....or is simply getting more powerful processing NAS more important/necessary?

 

The rest of the system is reasonably high end (Empirical Audio Overdrive SE DAC, BAT VK-75SE, JM Mini-Utopia/Rel. Stax SR009.

 

I do have my opinion on all of this...in that this stuff is so far from the Auralic (which has dual Femto's, along with Superclock clock in Empirical OD), that the NAS, as long as it is fast enough, should make little difference, perhaps other than using a decent Ethernet cable and LPS.

 

I'd like someone who's perhaps gone through some of this to prove me wrong, so that I may pay attention to what matters most!

 

Please chime in with your thoughts.

[lmitche]

lornecherry

 

Having been through 3 NAS solutions in the past year, my experience is that the NAS matters. I shouldn't, but it just does.

 

In the end, the QNAP HS-251-2GB version was my final solution. This is really a standard PC, with 2GB of memory and 2 ethernet ports. It can be used to boot any operating system. I use a j5create hdmi to vga converter and a usb keyboard to get into the BIOS. From there Windows is installed on an SSD drive in one of the removable trays. The other tray holds the music library and is used by minimserver to serve out music.

 

The fanless operation means the NAS can go into the music room. Mine is in a cabinet and the only noise comes from the hard drive, which is unnoticeable.

 

There are three great benefits to the HS-251 design. 1) with two ethernet ports and by using port bridging on Windows, I have been able to remove the ethernet switch between the QNAP and my music streamer, [the other port is connected to a router] 2) it uses an external 12volt switching power supply, and at 1.5 amps, this enables the substitution of an LPS, 3) as it is so quiet, it can live in the music room and can be connected with a very short ethernet cable to the music streamer. All of this enhances sound quality in a terrific way.

 

With the adjacent physical location of the HS-251 and my streamer, two BlueJean CAT 6Acable 1 foot ethernet cables are used to connect the two devices with a EMOsystems HD70 providing galvanic isolation between each device.

 

Lastly, with Windows, it is possible to configure a minimal configuration with most services turned off. At boot running Fidelizer and setting the minimserver process to real time yields further benefits. with minimserver and tightvnc running there are only 25 active windows processes.

 

Running minimserver, the memory utilization of my NAS is below 1GB allowing me to run off OS paging and eliminating yet another random source of interrupts.

 

TightVNC allows remote access from an IPAD or desktop machine to remote into the device.

 

The QNAP-251-2GB is highly recommended for it's amazing versatility.

[BobSherman]

lornecherry

 

Having been through 3 NAS solutions in the past year, my experience is that the NAS matters. I shouldn't, but it just does.

 

In the end, the QNAP HS-251-2GB version was my final solution. This is really a standard PC, with 2GB of memory and 2 ethernet ports. It can be used to boot any operating system. I use a j5create hdmi to vga converter and a usb keyboard to get into the BIOS. From there Windows is installed on an SSD drive in one of the removable trays. The other tray holds the music library and is used by minimserver to serve out music.

 

The fanless operation means the NAS can go into the music room. Mine is in a cabinet and the only noise comes from the hard drive, which is unnoticeable.

 

There are three great benefits to the HS-251 design. 1) with two ethernet ports and by using port bridging on Windows, I have been able to remove the ethernet switch between the QNAP and my music streamer, [the other port is connected to a router] 2) it uses an external 12volt switching power supply, and at 1.5 amps, this enables the substitution of an LPS, 3) as it is so quiet, it can live in the music room and can be connected with a very short ethernet cable to the music streamer. All of this enhances sound quality in a terrific way.

 

With the adjacent physical location of the HS-251 and my streamer, two BlueJean CAT 6Acable 1 foot ethernet cables are used to connect the two devices with a EMOsystems HD70 providing galvanic isolation between each device.

 

Lastly, with Windows, it is possible to configure a minimal configuration with most services turned off. At boot running Fidelizer and setting the minimserver process to real time yields further benefits. with minimserver and tightvnc running there are only 25 active windows processes.

 

Running minimserver, the memory utilization of my NAS is below 1GB allowing me to run off OS paging and eliminating yet another random source of interrupts.

 

TightVNC allows remote access from an IPAD or desktop machine to remote into the device.

 

The QNAP-251-2GB is highly recommended for it's amazing versatility.

 

What drive are you using for storage? Do you run it 24/7? I have read with regular drives it may run too warm for 24/7 use.

 

regards

Bob

[jtwrace]

Remember one thing. The NAS is a storage device which will be streaming wirelessly to the ARIES. There is no possible way that drives, power or any other voodoo can change the sound once the file is "in the air (wirelessly) to the ARIES. Think about that for a second.

[lmitche]

What drive are you using for storage? Do you run it 24/7? I have read with regular drives it may run too warm for 24/7 use.

 

regards

Bob

 

The 3.5" drive used for music storage is a 4tb Western Digital Red drive. A 120 gb Samsung SSD holds the OS and application software. Yes, the machine is powered on 24/7. I run the "high performance" windows power plan to avoid Intel "speed step" clock variability. Windows powers down the hard drive after 20 mins using it's sleep function.

 

Having also read about a heat issue with this device, my experience shows no heat problem here, not ever. Perhaps two mechanical drives could push the QNAP over the tipping point. However, I don't believe in mirrored drives for this application, so have no need for two hard disks.

[BobSherman]

The 3.5" drive used for music storage is a 4tb Western Digital Red drive. A 120 gb Samsung SSD holds the OS and application software. Yes, the machine is powered on 24/7. I run the "high performance" windows power plan to avoid Intel "speed step" clock variability. Windows powers down the hard drive after 20 mins using it's sleep function.

 

Having also read about a heat issue with this device, there has been no heat problem here, ever. Perhaps two mechanical drives could create push the QNAP over the tipping point. I don't believe in mirrored drives for this application, so have no need for two hard disks.

 

The reds run pretty cool. If you have proper backup then true, the mirror is not necessary.

 

regards

Bob

[OldAudioNut]

lmitche

 

I'm thinking about the Synology 214+ because it has 2 LAN ports. I want to go Synology. 2bays with 10tb WD red drive storage will last me 'till infinity and beyond, and use dedicated HDD backup. I'm interested in playing with the concept of using 1 port to connect NAS to my network through a switch, and the 2nd port to connect NAS directly to a music renderer (Aries/Aurender/Sonore to be named later). My question: what is the role of "port bridging" in your setup. Does it enable you to manage the NAS via the network? I am a networking newbie.

 

thanks

 

Howard

[lmitche]

lmitche

 

I'm thinking about the Synology 214+ because it has 2 LAN ports. I want to go Synology. 2bays with 10tb WD red drive storage will last me 'till infinity and beyond, and use dedicated HDD backup. I'm interested in playing with the concept of using 1 port to connect NAS to my network through a switch, and the 2nd port to connect NAS directly to a music renderer (Aries/Aurender/Sonore to be named later). My question: what is the role of "port bridging" in your setup. Does it enable you to manage the NAS via the network? I am a networking newbie.

 

thanks

 

Howard

 

Hi Howard,

 

Yes, the Synology DS412+ comes with two gigabit ethernet ports - but they aren't bridged, and additionally DSM 4.3 doesn't provide a simple option to enable this, so you will have to set it bridging manually. After a couple days trying to do the manual setup on the QNAP OS, I gave up and installed Windows 8.1, where bridging is supported.

 

The Synology runs an ARM processor, so you won't have the option of installing Windows.

 

The tough part was getting the QNAP QTS 4 OS to automatically configure the bridge at boot time. QNAP makes end user changes to the boot script difficult. While in theory, the QPKG app store packaging process should work, it is poorly documented.

 

I have no experience with DSM boot scripts, so can't help you there.

 

You may be a better, or more determined, Linux hacker than me, and bridging may be easy to accomplish on DSM. It is definitely possible.

 

Sorry I can't be of more help.

 

Larry

[OldAudioNut]

Hi Larry

 

Thanks for the info. I thought maybe this wasn't going to be easy, and you've confirmed it is out of my league.

 

best

 

Howard

[davide256]

Remember one thing. The NAS is a storage device which will be streaming wirelessly to the ARIES. There is no possible way that drives, power or any other voodoo can change the sound once the file is "in the air (wirelessly) to the ARIES. Think about that for a second.

hmmm, so you think a NAS is magic and introduces no defects of its own before it sends data over transmission media?

 

Network data is essentially bullet proof between sender and reciever as long as transmission media is within spec and routing protocols intact. The source and destination devices are where problems can lie with less than robust hardware, software and power supply. Robustness isn't cheap.

[davide256]

I'm trying to compare these two NAS's. The Synology is almost a no-brainer as it receives great reviews/compatibility here. The question is; would the QNAP be an equal choice, or even better? Or would the best choice be a more powerful Synology?

 

(The NAS will serve the Auralic Aires that has just arrived).

 

Capacity is not all that important (yes, I know that will come back to haunt me, but I will only store a couple Terabytes at most, as it will be dedicated to music and I don't have that much music compared to others I've read about on this forum...with SSDs and HD space cheap as dirt, I'm not worried about space/cost). I'm also not concerned about building a redundant RAID server, as this will not run 24/7 and be only switched on before I play music. At best, I will RAID 0 for performance if needed; though I doubt that makes a difference, since that is rarely the bottleneck in these types of servers.

 

1) Will I get better sound with a more powerful NAS (I may, at sometime, stream multichannel DSD) or from the fan-less NAS?

 

2) Will SSD's improve the sound in the NAS compared to the 'standard' WD Red?

 

3) The attraction to the QNAP is that it is fan-less...and I'm from the school of thought where "everything matters". Hence a NAS running fan-less, with LPS and perhaps a couple SSDs....or is simply getting more powerful processing NAS more important/necessary?

 

The rest of the system is reasonably high end (Empirical Audio Overdrive SE DAC, BAT VK-75SE, JM Mini-Utopia/Rel. Stax SR009.

 

I do have my opinion on all of this...in that this stuff is so far from the Auralic (which has dual Femto's, along with Superclock clock in Empirical OD), that the NAS, as long as it is fast enough, should make little difference, perhaps other than using a decent Ethernet cable and LPS.

 

I'd like someone who's perhaps gone through some of this to prove me wrong, so that I may pay attention to what matters most!

 

Please chime in with your thoughts.

 

I'm happy with the DS214play. I originally bought the WD Red's and then compared to SSD... the difference was mostly a reduction of edginess which may have been because they reduced power supply draw. Fan noise isn't an issue. I do get some hum using an Ifi NANO connected to the USB port, considering buying an iFi USB power device to see if that helps. Can't comment on the QNAP, do highly recommend with a 2 disk system that you want unmirrored RAID with a USB 3.0 or SATA connected external backup drive

[kumakuma]

do highly recommend with a 2 disk system that you want unmirrored RAID with a USB 3.0 or SATA connected external backup drive

 

Why unmirrored?

[davide256]

Why unmirrored?

 

Space and speed... raid striping speeds up read speed and you can consume a mirrored single disk fairly quickly, especially if SSD. Price wise you can get (2) 2TB WD red for about $180, and an external backup 4TB WD red for about $180 also.

Determined this afternoon that the hum with the ifi is due to the power connection into the NAS... no like hum pickup problem when NAS is connected to the Gustard U12.

[kumakuma]

Space and speed... raid striping speeds up read speed and you can consume a mirrored single disk fairly quickly, especially if SSD. Price wise you can get (2) 2TB WD red for about $180, and an external backup 4TB WD red for about $180 also.

 

Got it. I went the other way, figuring that the speed that striping provides really isn't needed for streaming audio data. Instead I put in two mirrored 4TB WD Red drives for the extra data protection. Plus an external 4TB WD Red drive stored off-site, of course.

[pl_svn]

resurrecting an old thread, I know, but don't think it's worth opening a new one so...

 

just purchased, set up and now using a Qnap HS-251 2GB ram version

previously I was using a Synology DS-212+ (still in use as "everything but music tracks" NAS)

 

I went for this Qnap for two reasons:

- it's fanless: so it can live in my music rig rack (Synology was at the other end of a 20mt long ethernet cable, with router in between)

- has a 5.5x2.5 (or 2.1) barrel DC connector (newest Synologys moved away from it). HD-Plex LPS on order

 

 

initial setup, even going the "manual route" (as opposed to quick, simplified, setup), was a breeze

the unit actually is silent you can only hear some HD activity during "wake from sleep" (or boot) if everything else in the room is silent

it runs warmer than my Synology (35-37° HDs temperature when in use). in normal use HD temperature, in this Qnap, is about 40-42° and only reached 45-46° during initial RAID synching (intense processor and disk activity lasting, no stop, for many hours)

 

sound quality:

my feeling, so far, is... something from previous setup went lost :-/

I mean: all is fine but... the "wow factor" is gone

 

I think (... and hope) culprit is Qnap's stock SMPS which, also, I had to plug into the same power strip everything else in my system is

 

HD-Plex LPS should be here this or next week: will report

[davide256]

Hardware specs on the QNAP are better... are you running Minimserver? If not, that could be the problem.

[pl_svn]

hardware is terrific indeed and UI is way more tidy and "elegant" than Synology's

(software has some quirks in a Mac environment, though)

 

no: my player is a Mac mini powered by a great LPS and running Audirvana Plus

in a few days, hopefully, the HD-Plex LPS for the Qnap (and ethernet switch) will be here so my whole system will be running on clean power (battery or LPS). except, obviously, tube pre and ampli

 

I do really believe, and hope, those two SMPS (ethernet switch and NAS) are the issue now

[lmitche]

My QNAP definitely sound better powered with LPS over the stock SMPS.

 

In the end, mine runs driveless, having moved the music HD to a UASP 3.0 enclosure, and eliminating the SSD, and booting from a USB based SDCARD and reader.

[lmitche]

HD is connected via Corning cable.

[lmitche]

hardware is terrific indeed and UI is way more tidy and "elegant" than Synology's

(software has some quirks in a Mac environment, though)

 

no: my player is a Mac mini powered by a great LPS and running Audirvana Plus

in a few days, hopefully, the HD-Plex LPS for the Qnap (and ethernet switch) will be here so my whole system will be running on clean power (battery or LPS). except, obviously, tube pre and ampli

 

I do really believe, and hope, those two SMPS (ethernet switch and NAS) are the issue now

 

By changing SD cards, the QNAP can boot either WIN10 or Audiolinix, a realtime version of Linux. From there, either can run minimserver or HQPlayer(at reduced rates, no AVX here).

 

These configs use the dual ethernet capability of the QNAP to bridge the NIC ports, so no switch or power supply is necessary. One NIC goes to the WAP and Internet router, the other to an SOTM SMS100 running either MPD/UPNP or NAA. The latter connection is with fiber FMCs via 1 foot BJCs CAT6A cables.

[pl_svn]

let the HD-Plex be here and listen at how it goes

then... I'm already thinking about using optical isolation

 

no way I'll move from the Mac mini and Audirvana though

[lmitche]

The important point is you can dump the switch with the QNAP.

[pl_svn]

shouldn't be an issue once I power the switch too from a LPS

 

and next step I'm considering is using optical isolation between the switch and router (meaning everything else, non music related, powered by stock SMPSs)

[pl_svn]

HD-Plex LPS delivered a few days ago

 

DC cord for my QNap HS-251 was missing so I, first, used it to power just the ethernet switch between NAS and Mac mini and... that made quite a difference

DC cord with 5,5x2,5 barrel plug delivered this morning so I'm now powering the HS-251 too from the LPS: just WOW!!!

[davide256]

Got me curious now... trying to solve a problem with digital source playing choral antiphonal brass where its sounds similar to the instruments being out of tune, doesn't happen with vinyl. If the regen arriving doesn't improve it, this sounds like a possible next step.