Auralic Aires: Optimizing sound quality

[JDOz]

Let us know of your findings.....WDW

 

Tried a test but I'll need to repeat it later. For now, background & initial comments:

 

Using LH Lightspeed split USB cable with only data leg connected. This cable is amazing in terms of revealing details in the music. My relatively cheap Cardas Clear USB and very cheap Canare DA206 AES cables never came close in SQ.

 

My new Analysis Plus Digital Crystal (solo crystal) AES cable is a much closer match to the Lightspeed (and at a third the price). The difference between the 2 may come down to personal taste.

 

With the new Aries FW, the vocals are much more forward. They are very good but in some passages, I feel my attention is overly drawn to the front and centre vocals at the expense of instruments that previously broadened the soundstage. This effect is countered with the AP AES. In this respect, I prefer it over the Lightspeed USB. In other passages, the Lightspeed was slightly preferable. Prior to burn-in, the AES had a slightly fatiguing sound in the mid-highs. After ~40 hrs burn-in, I think this is now gone but will need more burn-in and a longer listening session to be sure.

 

I like to use the Vega DAC in Exact mode; but suffer the drop-outs when using USB from Aries. As expected, there were no drop-outs using AES; presumably, the Aries digital outs have less jitter than the USB out. Unfortunately, with my frequent switching of outputs during the test, the USB drop-outs became unbearable and I had to limit my comparison to just a couple of tracks ripped from CD. I wasted too much time trying to compare high res tracks. Will re-visit later.

[Kai-Uwe]

I have already send an email to Mr. Wang because I was disappointed when I tried the 2L samples with my Aries/Vega on a USB connection. Dropouts, pulsing noises, sync issues and other problems showed up especially with higher resolutions and exact clock mode. I expected that if a device would work perfectly with the Vega in exact clock mode, the Aries would be the one. But this is not the case.

 

It seems that I should give the AES a try and compare. But the best files only work with USB. On the other hand I would not guarantee that I can hear a difference between exact and auto clock mode in a blind test.

[hampestampe1981]

I have already send an email to Mr. Wang because I was disappointed when I tried the 2L samples with my Aries/Vega on a USB connection. Dropouts, pulsing noises, sync issues and other problems showed up especially with higher resolutions and exact clock mode. I expected that if a device would work perfectly with the Vega in exact clock mode, the Aries would be the one. But this is not the case.

 

It seems that I should give the AES a try and compare. But the best files only work with USB. On the other hand I would not guarantee that I can hear a difference between exact and auto clock mode in a blind test.

 

I contacted Auralic in this matter (also using Vega/Aries "femo version") some months ago and Dewei gave me this answer:

"The clock is effected by various of reason such as the cable, and even power supply noise. The reason that digital input can lock is because the USB clock has 128x more precision which is more sensitivity to the noise"

I was told that usb and auto clock mode was superior to all other digital inputs. He also told me that a power conditioner might solve the issue, but not for sure. Dewei told me that Audience makes good powerconditioners.

 

All other digital inputs works in exact clock mode in my case, without dropouts. Most of the time it works well with usb, but some times I suffer from dropouts like three times in 60 seconds.

[Kai-Uwe]

I have received this answer today:

 

"

Thanks for contacting us.

 

The EXACT and FINE clock options are for testing only. We are unable to provide any support for this. Please always use AUTO as preferred way. This has been indicate in bold and red letter in VEGA operation manual.

 

Dewei

"

 

Actually this was neither the answer nor the level of politeness that I have expected.

[Bazinga]

Post deleted

[hampestampe1981]

related to power conditioners i think power regenerators will be much better solution.

something like Power Inspired AG-500 or AG-1500

Yes I think you are right. I am concidering to buy a "Torus power tot max ce" and conect all my audio components to it. My audio dealer told me that it will work fine to connect my 250wpc Krell power amp to the same power regenerator without losing dynamic, but I am not 100% convinced...

[Kai-Uwe]

Right, but on the other hand it sounds great in auto mode too. I don't regret having bought the Aries and Vega.

[One and a half]

Yes I think you are right. I am concidering to buy a "Torus power tot max ce" and conect all my audio components to it. My audio dealer told me that it will work fine to connect my 250wpc Krell power amp to the same power regenerator without losing dynamic, but I am not 100% convinced...

 

Here's some convincing to get you to the 100%. The unit your dealer recommended is rated at 1840VA. The TOT is a toroidal transformer principle and can provide at least 110% overload for a "while" that means enough to ride through high demand transients. For short sharp transients your amplifier provides the necessary power from the DC bus capacitors, that's its job after all.

 

Loading capacity

A transformer is rated in VA since the load determines the Watts. Typically audio components with linear front ends (transformer, rectifiers, capacitors) draw pulsed currents from the AC supply, which the toroid has to as well. You would think pulsed currents would be a lot less than continuous demand, say from a lamp, however the pulsed currents cause problems.

The pulsed currents distort the voltage waveform, and create opposite currents that are detrimental to the performance of the transformer, the transformer heats and its output is reduced.

As a rule of thumb to allow for these bad currents, derate the transformer's output by 40%. Forget about filtering the bad components, it's too hard! The TOT is then capable of 1104VA.

 

For loading on this unit, subtract the source and pre-amp components, as a guess allow for 300VA real power, that leaves 700VA for the power amplifier. That's over the capability of the power amp, and you still have short circuit capacity of the main AC supply up your sleeve.

 

The TOT is a toroidal transformer, it does not re-create an output like a regenerator and in some respects isn't such a bad thing.

[JDOz]

I contacted Auralic in this matter (also using Vega/Aries "femo version") some months ago and Dewei gave me this answer:

"The clock is effected by various of reason such as the cable, and even power supply noise. The reason that digital input can lock is because the USB clock has 128x more precision which is more sensitivity to the noise"

I was told that usb and auto clock mode was superior to all other digital inputs. He also told me that a power conditioner might solve the issue, but not for sure. Dewei told me that Audience makes good powerconditioners.

 

All other digital inputs works in exact clock mode in my case, without dropouts. Most of the time it works well with usb, but some times I suffer from dropouts like three times in 60 seconds.

 

I was not aware that the Vega USB clock had more precision. Apart from std response as per post #104, I was also told Auralic software team was looking into further reduction of Aries USB jitter.

 

I tried 3 different balanced power supplies and now use PS Audio P10 regenerator (230V). Also tried different power and USB cables and installed a separate circuit for hi fi. All improved SQ but none stopped the dropouts. Reduced them?...maybe. YMMV

[hampestampe1981]

Thank you for your explanation One and a half! Ok, so the unit is good stuff, but not as good as a power re-generator?

But maybe it will not solve the problem with the Vega dropouts in exact clock-mode after all. If the PS Audio P10 regenerator didn’t solve the problem… Maybe it isn´t possible to get it to work 100% without drop-outs in exact mode, due to the sensitive high clock-frequency usb bus-speed then … ?

[Kai-Uwe]

Actually I am not convinced to spend more money for a PS Audio P10 than for the Aries and Vega together in order to get an exact mode link. Does exact mode really sound so much better? I'm not sure that I would hear the difference between auto and exact mode in a blind test.

 

I would spend the money for content or maybe an additional tube amp to play with as an alternative. It's always the question how to get the most fun for your money. The solution is most probably not the exact mode with a PS Audio P10.

[Schizophrenia]

use anyone the ground connect between psu from aries and amp?

[JDOz]

My suggestion is that if you consider buying a power conditioner, do it for the reason of improving SQ generally and not for the hope that it might help drop-outs in exact mode. A good power conditioner does help every component in your system so there is some value there; though the amount of benefit depends on the AC quality in your house. As for exact mode, it did not solve that for me, even after I just tried adding in a power strip with double EMI filters and several Akiko tuning sticks.

 

The only way I can stop drop-outs with USB in exact mode is to keep the USB connection running and organise the queue to minimise changes in sampling rate. It is "as if" any interruption to the USB flow makes the femto-clock reset and require a new warm up. Switching the Aries-Vega connection to digital-out and then back to USB-out certainly does this [even if I'm wrong about the mechanism].

 

I'm now starting to suspect that SQ improves after using the same connection (USB or digital) for long enough to stabilise the clock used for that connection.

[One and a half]

Thank you for your explanation One and a half! Ok, so the unit is good stuff, but not as good as a power re-generator?

But maybe it will not solve the problem with the Vega dropouts in exact clock-mode after all. If the PS Audio P10 regenerator didn’t solve the problem… Maybe it isn´t possible to get it to work 100% without drop-outs in exact mode, due to the sensitive high clock-frequency usb bus-speed then … ?

 

If you are having dropouts with the Vega, a better AC power supply is of benefit for the whole system, but I doubt it will cure the problem of the Vega. The power supply in the Vega would have to be of such poor quality to stuff up the clock, but I doubt it.

Usually clocks do suffer from poor power supply, perhaps there's a burst of noise coming in from the back door or any one of the connectors on the back. Clocks like to remain on for extended periods to avoid drift, if you are cycling power frequently, that is one thing to avoid.

[Desotti]

I'm using an Aries and an Vega for about a month now I and must say I'm pretty disappointed with the Aries because I have absolutely no doubt that it's USB output is plenty jittery, the dropouts with Vega's exact mode clock has nothing to do with electrical problems or any other kind of interference.

 

And that's why:

 

Before owning the Aries I used a Squeezebox Touch with asynchronous USB enabled by EDO and as I still got it around I decided to test it with the Vega today.

 

The results? No dropouts at all with Vega's clock in exact mode, even playing 24/192 FLAC files:

 

 

Even my CD player (Audia Flight CD One) played flawlessly through Vega's coaxial input and the same exact mode enabled.

 

I believe AURALiC owe us an explanation about how a several years old US$ 299 little black box with no native digital USB output support from factory could outperform the Aries so easily in USB's jitter rejection...

 

Cheers.

[jtwrace]

I'll disagree as my Vega & ARIES plays on Exact mode. I do say it's power related and AURALiC has NEVER made any claims that Exact is for primetime anyway. They have always taken the stance that it's experimental.

[Desotti]

My Vega also plays in exact mode with the SBT and my CD player used as transport, so there's no aparent reason for the Aries not to play the same way other than high jitter through USB.

 

I didn't even mention that I use a QRT complete power purifier/distribution system, so there's absolutely not a chance that the problem with my Aries is power related.

[WilCox]

I too am coming to the Aries from the Squeezebox environment (10 nodes including 1 Transporter, 2 Touches, 4 SB3s, 2 Radios and a Boom) and am curious why one would want to use USB as an interface with a DAC, given all of the problems with drivers, operating systems, etc. I'm using S/PDIF without any problems. While I've tried the SB Touch with the ECO patch into my DACs via USB, I don't see any improvement in sound quality.

 

Just wondering what I'm missing by not embracing USB.

[Desotti]

Wilcox, before the Vega/Aries combo I was using a SBT with my Audia Flight CD/DAC through its SPDIF input and I was happy with the results, but when I tried the SBT with EDO and a Wavelenght Wavelink HS USB/SPDIF interface I immediately noticed an improvement in sound quality.

 

I believe that's not the case with Aries because it is an audiophile oriented product from start and the SBT is not (the RCA connector itself is not audiophile grade in the SBT for example), so the Aries SPDIF connection should provide excelent results to the 24/192 PCM limit, but for higher sampling rates and DSD the USB connection is the only way to go.

 

About my previous posts, I forgot to mention that both Aries and Vega were in standby mode and playing for only about 30 minutes when I start testing the exact clock mode and noticed the dropouts.

 

Both devices stayed on since then and I tested the USB connection again a few minutes ago in exact mode, but this time the dropouts did not happen... I was wondering if the Aries internal clock stays active during standby in the same way as the Vega's clock, because I can't think of any other logical explanation for the dropouts abscence than insuficient time for the Aries's clock temperature to stabilize.

[WilCox]

Sounds like I've got to spend some time playing around with USB. Thanks for the good info.

[wanta911]

I have an Aries/Vega combo and IMO there is only one reason to use USB and that is if you want to play higher than 24/192 resolution.

 

USB is noisy/dirty and is very much improved with the Uptone Regen. In my setup it is now very similar to the SPIDF connections and I would struggle to tell the difference. Exact mode is absolutely rock solid with both these connections - I never get dropouts.

 

If you have no need to play files above 24/192 just use the AES/EBU or coax connections, as using USB+Regen will be extra cost as well as having to power the Regen.

[JDOz]

Desotti, your experience is similar to mine. I think the reason your CD player into Vega via coax does not suffer drop-outs is explained in post #103...presumably the Vega USB clock requires higher precision. I don't think any of us suffer drop-outs when we use any input rather than USB.

 

Like you, I get drop-outs with Aries USB into Vega USB and this is greatly reduced by keeping both running. Also avoiding changes in sampling rates and certainly avoiding switching between input types; see post #114

 

I've also tried another player that didn't have this problem with USB-Vega+Exact so I start to blame the Aries but it didn't sound as good as the Aries-Vega+Auto so I can't really complain.

[theppd]

I do use Aries + Vega combo in exact mode and experience no dropouts or any issues at all. Moreover, when I've been using the Vega with my MBP, there were no issues either!

[Desotti]

Thanks for the information JDOz, we do share the same experiences: after some time playing the dropouts cease completely, but all I have to do is listen thru another input to the drop-outs start all over again when USB is selected.

 

Another issue that I noticed since yesterday is that when playing DSF files in DSD (DSD64 showing on Vega's display) if I select any track manually during play the very first beginning os that track does not get reproduced, even with the DAC delay feature enabled, but if I set the Aries to convert DSD to PCM then the track is reproduced correctly, but obviously the sound quality isn't exactly the same.

 

I tried that with several DSF recordings with same results... very annoying.

[TCB]

I'll disagree as my Vega & ARIES plays on Exact mode. I do say it's power related and AURALiC has NEVER made any claims that Exact is for primetime anyway. They have always taken the stance that it's experimental.

Same here.I have no problems with usb connection between Aries and Vega on exact clock. No drops,just smooth,flow music.