HQ Player

[Miska]

1 hour ago, Triplefun said:

What is the best value roon / hqplayer / jcat xe system 

 

1. Single windows server configured with roon and hqplayer connected to the DAC

2. Roon rock server plus separate  windows hqplayer with the latter connected to the DAC

3. Option 1 with a naa and jcat card connected to the DAC

4. Option 2 with a naa and jcat card connected to the DAC

 

Note my roon rock server with 7600x  uses a passive noctua CPU heatsink and themaltake V1 case with silent noctua  10 inch fan. My current thinking is to  build a second box with the next gen ryzen CPU (2024) and NVIDIA 3060 12gb GPU for hqplayer although I will probably need to add better fou cooling (option 2).

 

You can get started with (1) or (3). And then later go with (4).

 

Advantage of using a NAA is that you can have a small fanless low power NAA at the listening space. And then locate some powerful fan cooled machine in another room running HQPlayer and possibly Roon.

 

What I personally use is either (2) or (4). With the difference that my Roon Core is running on a NUC with Debian Linux. And I don't have any JCat cards. Instead when DAC is connected to a PC, it goes through Intona USB isolator. And NAA's are either something like UP Gateway or Holo Red (both running my NAA OS).

 

I would reconsider using 3060 GPU with some fast latest gen CPU. It may not be helpful. For GPU to be helpful for HQPlayer realtime offloading tasks, it must be faster than the CPU. So that CPU doesn't have to sit doing nothing and waiting GPU to complete it's work assignment... When GPU completes it's tasks before CPU, there are no waits. Any wait CPU is doing is wasted potential processing time.

 

[eboy]

@Miskawhy is my cpu temp 56c with generic and 45c with low latency in ubuntu?

[paulmckwan]

I'm running Roon core on NAS, music file on NAS, then integrated HQP point to HQP Desktop running on my Win11 main PC, playing to a NAA endpoint.

This setup has been running for months without problem, but random dropout start happens recently.

Any hint how to troubleshoot on this?

 

I just try to observe network throughout from task manager, and saw there is drop in "send" speed when the dropout happens. (dot line below)

 

 

[john925]

1 hour ago, paulmckwan said:

then integrated HQP point to HQP Desktop running on my Win11 main PC

hi paulmckwan,

 

May I ask what you mean by HQP point to HQP Desktop?  Do you run HQPlayer on NAS? Thank you.

 

John

[paulmckwan]

sorry i mean i config in Roon setting "Add HQPlayer" to make Roon output to HQP Desktop, which is installed to my daily use main win11 PC.

[john925]

19 minutes ago, paulmckwan said:

sorry i mean i config in Roon setting "Add HQPlayer" to make Roon output to HQP Desktop, which is installed to my daily use main win11 PC.

 

ok, noted. Thank you! Roon to HQPlayer Desktop is the easiest way to enjoy the management of library and sound quality.

 

John

 

[camott]

On 10/10/2023 at 2:05 PM, Miska said:

It is mostly how you want to balance < 100 kHz vs >100 kHz. And which of the two analog filters you use. For purely <100 kHz simplified performance, DSD256 is sweet spot. On when you go to DSD512, you lose about 3 dB on <100 kHz and win about 20 dB on >100 kHz. If you use something like class-D amplifier, you would likely want to go with DSD512 or DSD1024. So it is also system dependent.

Ok so if I am understanding you correctly, if I use the 60khz low pass analog filter on the DAC 200, there is simply no technical reason to even bother with DSD512 or

higher?? (Even with a class D amp)

[StreamFidelity]

8 hours ago, paulmckwan said:

but random dropout start happens recently.

Thank you so much for this post. I have a similar dual PC configuration. A bit different. Roon Core runs on Windows 11 Pro and HQPlayer Embedded on HQP OS.

 

I am having dropouts with 192kHz source files. I put this down to my network. But now that you mentioned your problem I investigated the problem. I noticed that the data flow in the input is below the data flow of the output. At 192,000 Hz x 24 bits x 2 channels, the bandwidth should be at least 9.216 Mbps. The input fluctuates between 4.6 - 9 Mbit/s. Every now and then a jumbo frame comes in so that it works at all. I didn't understand why it wasn't streaming at higher bandwidth on my 1GB line. 

 

 

Until I increased the clock frequency of my cores from 3GHz to 4.4GHz. Now the picture looks totally different. No more dropouts. Also the power option ultimate performance instead of balanced is important. Maybe it helps. 

 

 

The network is sometimes a mystery to me even after many years of intensive use. 😆

[sdolezalek]

On 10/12/2023 at 2:40 PM, Miska said:

I would reconsider using 3060 GPU with some fast latest gen CPU. It may not be helpful. For GPU to be helpful for HQPlayer realtime offloading tasks, it must be faster than the CPU. So that CPU doesn't have to sit doing nothing and waiting GPU to complete it's work assignment... When GPU completes it's tasks before CPU, there are no waits. Any wait CPU is doing is wasted potential processing time.

 

This is a nuance I hadn't picked up on earlier.  If you start with Intel's Core i9 13900K 3.0GHz 24 Core 36MB, then just how fast does the GPU need to be to be helpful?  Is the NVIDIA GeForce RTX 4080 16GB Open Air fast enogh, or would I need to go to the 4090 at more than 16GB to benefit? 

[bogi]

I am using only laptop and mini PCs at home long time ... no extendable desktop computer. Like I mentioned many times, on notebook from my signature I can reliable run all EC modulators at DSD512 with most of oversampling filters. I'm limited to 2s versions of middle to longer poly-sinc ones and limited by GPU RAM on some extra long filters like sinc-L, sinc-LI and sinc-Mx, but filters I like run reliably at DSD512. Some extra long filters I can run at DSD256, like sinc-LI and sinc-Mx, but currently I prefer shorter ones. After Miska re-designed sinc-short, -medium and -long, I can run them too, as well as all new filters of 5.20 version.

 

I don't have experience with desktop computer setup for HQPlayer. I'm just curious why nobody is using desktop versions of nVidia RTX A2000, A3000, A4000, A5000. I see on my notebook that the lowest model A2000 plays well with my 11gen CPU (not K version so no overclocking) and giving me what many of you are searching for.

 

Of course, for more demanding convolution filters my setup could be insufficient, but there are also higher An000 models than my A2000.

[skipspence]

13 hours ago, bogi said:

I'm just curious why nobody is using desktop versions of nVidia RTX A2000, A3000, A4000, A5000. I see on my notebook that the lowest model A2000 plays well with my 11gen CPU (not K version so no overclocking) and giving me what many of you are searching for.

Maby because for the price of A2000 alone one can afford a relative full 13900K desktop without a GPU but with all what many are searching for) 

[cpcat]

RTX 4060 16gb GPU looks good and pretty reasonable..  Is it 16gb we need @512DSD for all filters or 20Gb ?  I can’t remember.

 

I haven’t tried Sinc-L and Sinc-Long since updating to 5.2.0.  They were the only ones I couldn’t do for all base rates with my present GPU.  They are redesigned?

[bogi]

1 hour ago, cpcat said:

They are redesigned?

 

sinc-long among those two were redesigned - I mentioned  it in my previous post.

[bogi]

2 hours ago, skipspence said:

Maby because for the price of A2000 alone one can afford a relative full 13900K desktop without a GPU but with all what many are searching for)

 

A2000 need not to be so expensive - see for example this B grade offer https://www.amazon.com/Computer-Upgrade-King-Professional-Graphics/dp/B0BG8Y3KCM

or for example this one: https://www.amazon.com/PNY-NVIDIA-A2000-Graphic-VCNRTXA2000-PB/dp/B09KMMQW6M

 

My previous post was inspired by triplefun's question (at beginning of this page) and Miska's reaction to it:

On 10/12/2023 at 11:40 PM, Miska said:

I would reconsider using 3060 GPU with some fast latest gen CPU. It may not be helpful.

I'm OK with 4GB GPU RAM - see my above post - I can run almost all filters at DSD512, only few are exceptions.

[Kalpesh]

On 10/12/2023 at 10:06 PM, dericchan1 said:

Short mp always my go to filter for prog rock/metal!!

As of modulators, at least with a Holo May and 256 limitation, I found 7EC Super to be the only modulator that translated as real the hum at the beginning of Clapton's Layla in Unplugged SACD, that was striking in the comparison. Plus in a excruciating test of listening to a 256 recording @ 256 with no eQ it was the most palatable, Light the second, better than V3 in avoiding to stress the moments where eQ was badly needed

[skipspence]

@Miska can you please tell if HQPlayer would support Nvidia V100 GPU? 

Thank you. 

[Rovo]

On 10/14/2023 at 8:12 AM, bogi said:

I am using only laptop and mini PCs at home long time ... no extendable desktop computer. Like I mentioned many times, on notebook from my signature I can reliable run all EC modulators at DSD512 with most of oversampling filters. I'm limited to 2s versions of middle to longer poly-sinc ones and limited by GPU RAM on some extra long filters like sinc-L, sinc-LI and sinc-Mx, but filters I like run reliably at DSD512. Some extra long filters I can run at DSD256, like sinc-LI and sinc-Mx, but currently I prefer shorter ones. After Miska re-designed sinc-short, -medium and -long, I can run them too, as well as all new filters of 5.20 version.

 

I don't have experience with desktop computer setup for HQPlayer. I'm just curious why nobody is using desktop versions of nVidia RTX A2000, A3000, A4000, A5000. I see on my notebook that the lowest model A2000 plays well with my 11gen CPU (not K version so no overclocking) and giving me what many of you are searching for.

 

Of course, for more demanding convolution filters my setup could be insufficient, but there are also higher An000 models than my A2000.

I am using a RTX A4000 16GB to be able to upsample to DSD512 with sinc-L AND to have a relatively low power consumption

[ryanrulez]

Hi Guys 

 

Im building a PC just to use HQPe on Gentooplayer which will also act as my roon core and want to use most filters including sinc-L someday ( i would need a suggestion for a GPU for the same as well), how do the below specs look ?  also i will be using a afterdark fiber card which will connect to etherregen and then to my mercury v2 streamer and then to my sonnet morpheus mk2( morpheus doesnt do DSD but im planing to pick a DSD dac so that i can upsample everything to DSD in next 6months) 

 

 

Case	Fractal north Black with dark tempered glass
Processor	Intel 14700K CPU
Cooler	Deepcool LT720
PSU	Corsair HX1000i PCIe5 and ATX3
RAM	Please suggest 32gb kit with 7200 with lowest latency
Motherboard	Need suggestions
Fans	Noctua NF-A12x25 fans     Would this be good enough for me to run most of the filters ? i intent to buy a new 4060ti or 4080  (16gb vram) in one months time but i would be doing PCM until i get a DSD capable dac, so i will make do without GPU until then

[skipspence]

2 hours ago, Rovo said:

On 10/14/2023 at 9:12 AM, bogi said:

I am using only laptop and mini PCs at home long time ... no extendable desktop computer. Like I mentioned many times, on notebook from my signature I can reliable run all EC modulators at DSD512 with most of oversampling filters. I'm limited to 2s versions of middle to longer poly-sinc ones and limited by GPU RAM on some extra long filters like sinc-L, sinc-LI and sinc-Mx, but filters I like run reliably at DSD512. Some extra long filters I can run at DSD256, like sinc-LI and sinc-Mx, but currently I prefer shorter ones. After Miska re-designed sinc-short, -medium and -long, I can run them too, as well as all new filters of 5.20 version.

 

I don't have experience with desktop computer setup for HQPlayer. I'm just curious why nobody is using desktop versions of nVidia RTX A2000, A3000, A4000, A5000. I see on my notebook that the lowest model A2000 plays well with my 11gen CPU (not K version so no overclocking) and giving me what many of you are searching for.

 

Of course, for more demanding convolution filters my setup could be insufficient, but there are also higher An000 models than my A2000.

Expand  

I am using a RTX A4000 16GB to be able to upsample to DSD512 with sinc-L

What CPU do you use? 

[bogi]

22 minutes ago, skipspence said:

What CPU do you use?

 

Find it in my signature.

[skipspence]

38 minutes ago, bogi said:

Find it in my signature.

Sorry, not yours, it was addressed @Rovo

[Miska]

On 10/13/2023 at 12:07 PM, eboy said:

@Miskawhy is my cpu temp 56c with generic and 45c with low latency in ubuntu?

 

I have no idea... Maybe the generic is less efficient somehow. I have not used generic kernel in years...

 

[Miska]

On 10/13/2023 at 4:47 PM, paulmckwan said:

I'm running Roon core on NAS, music file on NAS, then integrated HQP point to HQP Desktop running on my Win11 main PC, playing to a NAA endpoint.

This setup has been running for months without problem, but random dropout start happens recently.

Any hint how to troubleshoot on this?

 

I just try to observe network throughout from task manager, and saw there is drop in "send" speed when the dropout happens. (dot line below)

 

 

 

802.3x Flow Control is not becoming active and you have network stalls due to buffer overflow - resend - overflow - stall pattern?

 

[Miska]

On 10/14/2023 at 1:11 AM, camott said:

Ok so if I am understanding you correctly, if I use the 60khz low pass analog filter on the DAC 200, there is simply no technical reason to even bother with DSD512 or

higher?? (Even with a class D amp)

 

No, that's not the case. For my loudspeaker system, I use 60 kHz setting on DAC 200 and run it at DSD512. While for HA 200 and Solitaire P headphones I use the wide setting and run it at DSD512.

 

If you have class-D amps, I would recommend 60 kHz + DSD512 rather than DSD256.

 

[Miska]

On 10/14/2023 at 8:08 AM, sdolezalek said:

This is a nuance I hadn't picked up on earlier.  If you start with Intel's Core i9 13900K 3.0GHz 24 Core 36MB, then just how fast does the GPU need to be to be helpful?  Is the NVIDIA GeForce RTX 4080 16GB Open Air fast enogh, or would I need to go to the 4090 at more than 16GB to benefit? 

 

There is no simple recipe, since it also depends on what is running on the GPU. But my rule of thumb has been that if the GPU is cheaper than the CPU it is not going to help.

 

Likely 4080 will be very helpful, but I would say that very likely 3050 or 3060 would just pose a bottleneck if enabled.