iTunes to start selling hi rez files!

[new_media]

Everything is recorded loud, it helps mask the quality of crap that main stream has become.

 

Got a source for this? Because it has not been my experience that iTunes tracks are mixed any hotter than their CD counterparts. Apple only sells what is supplied to them by the labels. I know that they have their "Mastered for iTunes" initiative now, but I think it's a common misunderstanding that means "louder" or "mastered for cheap ear buds."

[jhwalker]

I do wish it was more customizable, though. I would like to have it compress the 24/96 files to a format the iPod can play but leave the 16/44 ALAC and 320 MP3 untouched.

 

+1 - no excuse for what is, frankly, poor coding.

[cheezmo]

+1 - no excuse for what is, frankly, poor coding.

 

Don't blame the programmers, blame the design. I remember when the feature first came out it only allowed compression down to 128kbps. Probably under the assumption that most iTunes libraries consisted of music download from the iTunes Store or ripped with iTunes default settings (256kbps). Only later did they add the option to compress to 192 to 256kbps probably at the request of people that had ripped a fair amount of their CD's in lossless.

 

Since there are very few people what would have content > 16/44 ALAC anyway, I can see why there is no option to do anything special with 24/96 content.

 

But, it is typical of Apple to design to the most common denominator and not have all kinds of complicated options so that is what you get, until enough people complain for more options and then you get the complaints that iTunes has become an overcomplicated bloated feature ridden beast. They can't win.

 

But, it is a design, not a coding issue (sorry, programming background, sensitive ;-)

[jhwalker]

Yes, I meant "poor design" or "bad specs" - I'm sure the programmers did exactly what they were told to do

[Keyser Söze]

Three things:

 

1) Hopefully there is some level of quality control associated with this. iTunes really should reject music for this below a certain dynamic range value and reject anything that clips.

 

2) If the music has DRM, then forget it, I'll keep buying from HDTracks. I will not spend money on this, only to play it back on a mediocre-sounding iPod. I want to be able to listen to it on my Fiio X3.

 

3) I am also curious if it will be 24/48, 24/96, 24/192? As far as I know; iPhone, iPod Touch and iPod Classic can only play a maximum of 24/48 in the ALAC container, through the dock connector. Does this mean the music they're selling will only be 24/48, or will they come out with something that can play full 24/192?

[Leroy Bad]

Three things:

 

1) Hopefully there is some level of quality control associated with this. iTunes really should reject music for this below a certain dynamic range value and reject anything that clips.

 

2) If the music has DRM, then forget it, I'll keep buying from HDTracks. I will not spend money on this, only to play it back on a mediocre-sounding iPod. I want to be able to listen to it on my Fiio X3.

 

3) I am also curious if it will be 24/48, 24/96, 24/192? As far as I know; iPhone, iPod Touch and iPod Classic can only play a maximum of 24/48 in the ALAC container, through the dock connector. Does this mean the music they're selling will only be 24/48, or will they come out with something that can play full 24/192?

 

 

1. Not a chance! Apple is the origin of the modern Loudess War. "Mastered for ITunes" is an expectation of a culture they created.

 

2. Not likely , there's too much competition that doesn't use DRM now. Back in the day, there was just iTunes, and Piracy.

 

3. My guess is that 24-bit means HD to Apple regardless to of sample rate. And yes they are limited to 48khz, unless the iPod Touch 6 will have some tricks.

[Keyser Söze]

1. Not a chance! Apple is the origin of the modern Loudess War. "Mastered for ITunes" is an expectation of a culture they created.

 

2. Not likely , there's too much competition that doesn't use DRM now. Back in the day, there was just iTunes, and Piracy.

 

3. My guess is that 24-bit means HD to Apple regardless to of sample rate. And yes they are limited to 48khz, unless the iPod Touch 6 will have some tricks.

 

 

 

 

On the third point, I wonder if they'll sell 24/192 or whatever - higher than 48khz - but then have it downsample to 48khz when you sync an iPod. That seems like a better way to do it IMO.

[jhwalker]

Three things:

 

1) Hopefully there is some level of quality control associated with this. iTunes really should reject music for this below a certain dynamic range value and reject anything that clips.

 

2) If the music has DRM, then forget it, I'll keep buying from HDTracks. I will not spend money on this, only to play it back on a mediocre-sounding iPod. I want to be able to listen to it on my Fiio X3.

 

3) I am also curious if it will be 24/48, 24/96, 24/192? As far as I know; iPhone, iPod Touch and iPod Classic can only play a maximum of 24/48 in the ALAC container, through the dock connector. Does this mean the music they're selling will only be 24/48, or will they come out with something that can play full 24/192?

 

1) Doubt there will be any "quality control" other than the qualifications in the "Mastered for iTunes" specs.

 

2) iTunes hasn't had DRM for over 5 years now (since 2009), so don't see why they would add it back just for this.

 

3) The current hardware maxes out at 48kHz - unless they upgrade their hardware (which they do every year anyway), I'd expect them to limit to 48/24. I'd love to see them offer the 96/24 masters they've been accepting for several years now and upgrade their hardware (iPhone 6, new iPod / iPad, etc.) to support at least 96/24.

[Audio_ELF]

Typical anti-Apple propaganda...

 

1. Not a chance! Apple is the origin of the modern Loudess War. "Mastered for ITunes" is an expectation of a culture they created.

Complete rubbish... The loudness war started long before Apple created iTunes...

 

2. Not likely , there's too much competition that doesn't use DRM now. Back in the day, there was just iTunes, and Piracy.

The "cause" of DRM was as much (maybe more) the record labels demands as Apple wanting DRM.

 

3. My guess is that 24-bit means HD to Apple regardless to of sample rate. And yes they are limited to 48khz, unless the iPod Touch 6 will have some tricks.

No idea... However iirc there was talk of a multi-version file format being created by Apple which would allow a low res and a high res version within one file.

 

Eloise

 

PS. I really don't believe any rumours until Apple actually announces anything... Look how long there have been rumours about Apple producing a TV, all from "people in the know".

[wgscott]

Typical anti-Apple propaganda...

 

 

Complete rubbish... The loudness war started long before Apple created iTunes...

 

 

But, but ... this thread is about creating a reality, just by repeating statements often enough. This makes them become truths.

 

[Leroy Bad]

Typical anti-Apple propaganda...

 

 

Complete rubbish... The loudness war started long before Apple created iTunes...

 

No it's not rubbish, you just read my post too fast. I said "modern loudness war". The true origins of the Loudness War may have began back in the late 60s. But the Loudness Wars concerning today began with the Shuffle mode on iPod. This is the general consensus amongst audio engineers when asked the about the topic.

 

The "cause" of DRM was as much (maybe more) the record labels demands as Apple wanting DRM.

 

Yes because of Piracy!

 

 

No idea... However iirc there was talk of a multi-version file format being created by Apple which would allow a low res and a high res version within one file.

 

I think a file container like that exist already, I can't think of what it's called. It sounds silly though, imagine the file size.

[wgscott]

This is the general consensus amongst audio engineers when asked the about the topic.

 

 

Excellent point. Truth is established by the social consensus of audio engineers (or at least the ones cherry-picked in the imaginary dreamworld).

[khaos_dj]

3) The current hardware maxes out at 48kHz - unless they upgrade their hardware (which they do every year anyway), I'd expect them to limit to 48/24. I'd love to see them offer the 96/24 masters they've been accepting for several years now and upgrade their hardware (iPhone 6, new iPod / iPad, etc.) to support at least 96/24.

 

96/24 would be sweet. I would come back to iTunes to make a lot more purchases.

 

Ever since I started buying CDs (again) six months ago, I cannot go back to the crappy 256kbps songs from iTunes. Only for those unreleased-on-disc tracks I proceed to buy digital.

 

Someone correct me if Im wrong but I think the fact that beatport has grown so much in the past months might have caused iTunes to realize how much the market has grow for high quality music.

[new_media]

But the Loudness Wars concerning today began with the Shuffle mode on iPod. This is the general consensus amongst audio engineers when asked the about the topic.

 

Seems they are atoning for their sins with iTunes radio...

 

[Paul R]

No it's not rubbish, you just read my post too fast. I said "modern loudness war". The true origins of the Loudness War may have began back in the late 60s. But the Loudness Wars concerning today began with the Shuffle mode on iPod. This is the general consensus amongst audio engineers when asked the about the topic.

.

 

Actually, I think she read it aright, and it is rubbish. Apple has nothing to do with the Loudness Wars, except for some halfhearted attempts to stem it a little bit. Mastered for iTunes is an attempt to realize a minimum level of quality, not an attempt to force everything to be compressed to a homogenous mush. Look to the producers and even some of the artists for guilt in that direction.

[originalsnuffy]

If Apple has relatively high res downloads it could grow the overall market. But when it is an option, I would suggest we support the independents. I kind of like HDTracks; why all the beefing?

[wgscott]

why all the beefing?

 

It's because of all the stuff they sell that isn't what is claimed.

[Jud]

Re iPod and shuffle mode: First one came out in 2001, and they didn't really take off until 2004. Now look at DR Database. The Loudness Wars were well under way by the early to mid '90s.

[wgscott]

I have one of those 2001 iPods in the garage. It has a firewire 400 port, 4GB drive, and a mechanical dial wheel on the front with sand in it.

[firedog]

No it's not rubbish, you just read my post too fast. I said "modern loudness war". The true origins of the Loudness War may have began back in the late 60s. But the Loudness Wars concerning today began with the Shuffle mode on iPod. This is the general consensus amongst audio engineers when asked the about the topic.

 

I'd like to see that poll of audio engineers...if so, they must all be under 25 years of age. The "modern loudness war" was fully enjoined by the mid 90's. I don't think iPod/iTunes was dominating the market then:)

 

It has gotten worse in this century, if that makes you feel any better.

 

Here's an example that can't be beat, one of the big hit albums of 1995-1996, worldwide. Note the DR values, which woudn't embarrass the biggest VC warriors of today:

 

foobar2000 1.3.2 / Dynamic Range Meter 1.1.0

log date: 2014-05-04 09:55:15

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Analyzed: Oasis / (What's The Story) Morning Glory?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

DR Peak RMS Duration Track

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DR5 -0.10 dB -5.74 dB 3:22 01-Hello

DR4 -0.10 dB -5.14 dB 4:00 02-Roll With It

DR7 -0.10 dB -8.72 dB 4:19 03-Wonderwall

DR5 -0.10 dB -6.87 dB 4:48 04-Don't Look Back in Anger

DR4 -0.10 dB -5.05 dB 5:42 05-Hey Now!

DR6 -0.10 dB -7.70 dB 0:45 06-(Untitled)

DR4 -0.10 dB -5.56 dB 5:29 07-Some Might Say

DR6 -0.10 dB -7.43 dB 4:52 08-Cast No Shadow

DR5 -0.10 dB -5.96 dB 3:40 09-She's Electric

DR4 -0.10 dB -5.16 dB 5:04 10-Morning Glory

DR10 -1.06 dB -13.19 dB 0:40 11-(Untitled)

DR3 -0.10 dB -5.81 dB 7:28 12-Champagne Supernova

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Number of tracks: 12

Official DR value: DR5

 

Samplerate: 44100 Hz

Channels: 2

Bits per sample: 16

Bitrate: 1016 kbps

Codec: FLAC

===========================

 

And in case you don't know it, the iPod/iTunes dates from 2001. Apple - Products - iPod History

 

addendum: By the way, just read this article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/(What's_the_Story)_Morning_Glory%3F

 

The brickwall mastering technique utilised during the recording of the album has led to some journalists claiming that it was responsible for initiating the loudness war, as its heavy use of compression, first widely used by Morris on Definitely Maybe, was leaps and bounds beyond what any other album up until then had attempted. Music journalist Nick Southall, who has written extensively on the loudness war, commented, "If there's a jump-the-shark moment as far as CD mastering goes then it's probably Oasis."[12] In Britpop and the English Music Tradition Andy Bennet and John Stratton noted that as a result of this technique "the songs were especially loud. [Liam] Gallagher's voice is foregrounded to the point that it appears to grow out of the mixes of the songs, exposing itself to execute a pseudo-live quality."

 

Basically, Oasis picked a side in the early days of the "war", had a huge hit album, and everyone else followed suit, in a true example of "however loud you make yours, I can make mine louder" psychology.

[originalsnuffy]

With regard to HD Tracks, what tracks are not as claimed?

[phatoldsun]

With regard to HD Tracks, what tracks are not as claimed?

 

There are too many to list. There is a whole forum on this site dedicated to music analysis here: Music Analysis - Objective & Subjective

 

There are examples of CD/Redbook being upsampled and sold as 96/24. Here's one:http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f14-music-analysis-objective-and-subjective/steely-dan-gaucho-hdtracks-12244/

 

More recently, the latest Beck album has issues and some tracks are derived from mp3 I believe.

[firedog]

Should also be mentioned that HDT has removed fake hi-res from the site and often replaced it with actual hi-res. So older posts on this topic are probably not relevant in most cases.

 

There are too many to list. There is a whole forum on this site dedicated to music analysis here: Music Analysis - Objective & Subjective

 

There are examples of CD/Redbook being upsampled and sold as 96/24. Here's one:http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f14-music-analysis-objective-and-subjective/steely-dan-gaucho-hdtracks-12244/

 

More recently, the latest Beck album has issues and some tracks are derived from mp3 I believe.

[wgscott]

Should also be mentioned that HDT has removed fake hi-res from the site and often replaced it with actual hi-res. So older posts on this topic are probably not relevant in most cases.

 

You keep repeating this, but it would be nice to provide a single example. I have many counter-examples. But I guess this is the wishful thinking reality-free thread.

[originalsnuffy]

Boy if HD Tracks actually has files that are not as represented, I would hope that the files are replaced and previous buys notificed and upgraded. I do think the CSN first album is as represented. And many files seem to me to be conversions straight from DVD-Audio or SACD.