toast Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 My understanding, the future firmware update will only up-sample all PCM to DSD not 2X DSD. 2 Ch stereo Auralic Aries>Wireworld AES>Kitsune Holo Spring DAC L3>Van Den Hul-The Second balance cable>Sonic Euphoria (fully balance autoformer)>Van Den Hul-The Second balance cable>D-Sonic M3-1200S-A (Anaview AMS1000-2600)>Synergistic Tesla Accelerator cable>Ohm 3000 speakers plus Omni Harmonizer super tweeter Link to comment
Hiro Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 My understanding, the future firmware update will only up-sample all PCM to DSD not 2X DSD. Why ?? Virtually all DSD DACs can handle 2X DSD signal, and it's generally believed that 2X DSD rate is the "sweet spot" sampling rate for DSD at this point in time. PS Audio's DirectStream DAC, Playback Designs MPD-5, EMM Labs, Sony HAP-Z1ES... all upsample PCM to 2X DSD. Link to comment
toast Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 I know, I Know! 2X DSD gets rid of some inherit noise. Maybe I'm wrong. 2 Ch stereo Auralic Aries>Wireworld AES>Kitsune Holo Spring DAC L3>Van Den Hul-The Second balance cable>Sonic Euphoria (fully balance autoformer)>Van Den Hul-The Second balance cable>D-Sonic M3-1200S-A (Anaview AMS1000-2600)>Synergistic Tesla Accelerator cable>Ohm 3000 speakers plus Omni Harmonizer super tweeter Link to comment
Hiro Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 Even the thread title says that the Aries will do "Double DSD over Wi-Fi". I would be surprised if its DSD upsampling engine didn't operate at Double DSD rate as well Link to comment
firedog Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 2x DSD upsampling won't be available from the start? Nope, we[ve already been told it will be an addon in an update later this year Main listening (small home office): Main setup: Surge protectors +>Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Strip/Protection>QuietPC Low Noise Server>Roon (Audiolense DRC)>Stack Audio Link II>Kii Control>Kii Three BXT (on their own electric circuit) >GIK Room Treatments. Secondary Path: Server with Audiolense RC>RPi4 or analog>Cayin iDAC6 MKII (tube mode) (XLR)>Kii Three BXT Bedroom: SBTouch to Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Setup. Living Room/Kitchen: Ropieee (RPi3b+ with touchscreen) + Schiit Modi3E to a pair of Morel Hogtalare. All absolute statements about audio are false Link to comment
Hiro Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 Nope, we[ve already been told it will be an addon in an update later this year Bummer. For DSD-only Lampizator DAC this feature is a must. Do you know if the Lampi will work with the ARIES? I know that USB drivers play a role here, but am still not sure how exactly I can verify a DSD converters's compatibility with the ARIES... Link to comment
firedog Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 Bummer. For DSD-only Lampizator DAC this feature is a must. Do you know if the Lampi will work with the ARIES? We've been told the Aries will work over USB with any DAC that is driverless for MAC and Linux. For others it should work over SPDIF/AES if they accept DoP. Obviously non DSD isn't an issue for SPDIF/AES. Main listening (small home office): Main setup: Surge protectors +>Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Strip/Protection>QuietPC Low Noise Server>Roon (Audiolense DRC)>Stack Audio Link II>Kii Control>Kii Three BXT (on their own electric circuit) >GIK Room Treatments. Secondary Path: Server with Audiolense RC>RPi4 or analog>Cayin iDAC6 MKII (tube mode) (XLR)>Kii Three BXT Bedroom: SBTouch to Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Setup. Living Room/Kitchen: Ropieee (RPi3b+ with touchscreen) + Schiit Modi3E to a pair of Morel Hogtalare. All absolute statements about audio are false Link to comment
Hiro Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 We've been told the Aries will work over USB with any DAC that is driverless for MAC and Linux. For others it should work over SPDIF/AES if they accept DoP. Obviously non DSD isn't an issue for SPDIF/AES. Thanks for the info Firedog, much appreciated. Link to comment
jtwrace Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 If this can up sample PCM to 2xDSD and play all music direct from my NAS, I don't see how this would be a bad thing. I already use a MBAir to rip and tag. Taking any piece of the puzzle out of the chain cannot be a bad thing sonically. I'm very interested in seeing what this is really about. I was getting ready to buy a new Mac Mini anyway so this would be ideal. PCM>DSD is still under development and will not appear in our first version of firmware that is going to launch on May. Actually it is not just up sampling but with down sampling too. Since the digital output(AES, COAX and TOSLINK) can only output up to 24/192. We have to find a way to let people choose how to output DSD and DXD though these ports. The UI can be pretty simple and easy to understand with just some options inside hardware setting section of the software. I personally think room acoustics correction is a big deal but we are still in research stage. How long do you think it will take for the updated firmware version that will up sample PCM > 2xDSD? If the unit comes out in May are you thinking the end of 2014 or late summer of 2014? I'm not asking for a firm date but I need to decide whether I get this or get an updated computer at this point and then go with this once it's all figured out in the latter stages. I love the concept and really like my Vega so this is obviously my first choice. The firmware and control software will upgrade monthly at least for bug fix and performance improvement. New functions will be introduced each quarto, we have some in plan such as AirPlay, build-in uPnP server(read attached USB disk), more radio services. The DSD up sampling is in the plan but not first priority. Maybe end of 2014 is a reality timeline. 2x DSD upsampling won't be available from the start? See above. W10 NUC i7 (Gen 10) > Roon (Audiolense FIR) > Motu UltraLite mk5 > (4) Hypex NCore NC502MP > JBL M2 Master Reference +4 subs Watch my Podcast https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXMw_bZWBMtRWNJQfTJ38kA/videos Link to comment
MarkS Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 can't wait for off shoot thread about which wifi router sounds best!! - Mark Synology DS916+ > SoTM dCBL-CAT7 > Netgear switch > SoTM dCBL-CAT7 > dCS Vivaldi Upsampler (Nordost Valhalla 2 power cord) > Nordost Valhalla 2 Dual 110 Ohm AES/EBU > dCS Vivaldi DAC (David Elrod Statement Gold power cord) > Nordost Valhalla 2 xlr > Absolare Passion preamp (Nordost Valhalla 2 power cord) > Nordost Valhalla 2 xlr > VTL MB-450 III (Shunyata King Cobra CX power cords) > Nordost Valhalla 2 speaker > Kaiser Kaewero Classic /JL Audio F110 (Wireworld Platinum power cord). Power Conditioning: Entreq Olympus Tellus grounding (AC, preamp and dac) / Shunyata Hydra Triton + Typhoon (Shunyata Anaconda ZiTron umbilical/Shunyata King Cobra CX power cord) > Furutec GTX D-Rhodium AC outlet. Link to comment
Audio_ELF Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 Bummer. For DSD-only Lampizator DAC this feature is a must. Do you know if the Lampi will work with the ARIES? I know that USB drivers play a role here, but am still not sure how exactly I can verify a DSD converters's compatibility with the ARIES... I'm guessing a bit here ... but if you used it with a UPnP server which can upsample to DSD (such as J.River or Foobar with correct plugin IIRC) before sending to the Aries then it would work. Eloise --- ...in my opinion / experience... While I agree "Everything may matter" working out what actually affects the sound is a trickier thing. And I agree "Trust your ears" but equally don't allow them to fool you - trust them with a bit of skepticism. keep your mind open... But mind your brain doesn't fall out. Link to comment
bmoura Posted June 19, 2014 Author Share Posted June 19, 2014 Bummer. For DSD-only Lampizator DAC this feature is a must. Do you know if the Lampi will work with the ARIES? I know that USB drivers play a role here, but am still not sure how exactly I can verify a DSD converters's compatibility with the ARIES... Do you have the DSD-only Lampizator DAC? Link to comment
Hiro Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 See above. Most disappointing. But thanks for the information. Link to comment
Hiro Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 Do you have the DSD-only Lampizator DAC? I was considering getting it (hey, many reviewers say it's the best DSD out there), but the delay in implementing the 2x DSD upsampling on the Aries complicated my plans. Link to comment
Hiro Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 I'm guessing a bit here ... but if you used it with a UPnP server which can upsample to DSD (such as J.River or Foobar with correct plugin IIRC) before sending to the Aries then it would work. I would have to know that it's 100% doable before getting the Lampi, but yes, it's an interesting idea... Link to comment
jtwrace Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 Most disappointing. But thanks for the information. Really? It's been known but Q3/4 isn't that far away at this point. W10 NUC i7 (Gen 10) > Roon (Audiolense FIR) > Motu UltraLite mk5 > (4) Hypex NCore NC502MP > JBL M2 Master Reference +4 subs Watch my Podcast https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXMw_bZWBMtRWNJQfTJ38kA/videos Link to comment
jtwrace Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 Just checking. W10 NUC i7 (Gen 10) > Roon (Audiolense FIR) > Motu UltraLite mk5 > (4) Hypex NCore NC502MP > JBL M2 Master Reference +4 subs Watch my Podcast https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXMw_bZWBMtRWNJQfTJ38kA/videos Link to comment
junk Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 my name is junk and i'm addicted to ... well something that doesn't exist, at least u can't get it yet, the Aries... Link to comment
rhmmmm Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 How and where can I preorder this thing? Is there anyone online that sells it? Link to comment
toast Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 Mr. Wang himself never did confirm the Aries, with future software updates, will be able to up-sample to 2X DSD. The Auralic VEGA DAC up-samples all PCM to 1.5MHz. DSD has a sampling rate of 2.8224MHz. So with my limited understanding of digital, I will say the Aries(which does have more computing power than the VEGA DAC) will only up-sample to DSD. 2 Ch stereo Auralic Aries>Wireworld AES>Kitsune Holo Spring DAC L3>Van Den Hul-The Second balance cable>Sonic Euphoria (fully balance autoformer)>Van Den Hul-The Second balance cable>D-Sonic M3-1200S-A (Anaview AMS1000-2600)>Synergistic Tesla Accelerator cable>Ohm 3000 speakers plus Omni Harmonizer super tweeter Link to comment
toast Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 Did anyone notice when the $999 Aries prototype was first announced last Jan., one of it's key features was a femto clock. I have read over and over, at least when it come to a DAC, all else being equal, replacing it's clock with a femto master clock is not perceptible. A femto clock also needs an improved power supply to work it's magic. I guess that is why we now have two models. 2 Ch stereo Auralic Aries>Wireworld AES>Kitsune Holo Spring DAC L3>Van Den Hul-The Second balance cable>Sonic Euphoria (fully balance autoformer)>Van Den Hul-The Second balance cable>D-Sonic M3-1200S-A (Anaview AMS1000-2600)>Synergistic Tesla Accelerator cable>Ohm 3000 speakers plus Omni Harmonizer super tweeter Link to comment
firedog Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 It seems to be understood in posts 82-85. He mentions DSD upsampling and then responds to a question about 2X DSD upsampling, and while he doesn't specifically use 2X in his answer, it certainly seems like he would have mentioned that it won't, in this context. I've asked, and been assured the computing power of the Aries is sufficient for 2X DSD upsampling. Mr. Wang himself never did confirm the Aries, with future software updates, will be able to up-sample to 2X DSD. The Auralic VEGA DAC up-samples all PCM to 1.5MHz. DSD has a sampling rate of 2.8224MHz. So with my limited understanding of digital, I will say the Aries(which does have more computing power than the VEGA DAC) will only up-sample to DSD. Main listening (small home office): Main setup: Surge protectors +>Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Strip/Protection>QuietPC Low Noise Server>Roon (Audiolense DRC)>Stack Audio Link II>Kii Control>Kii Three BXT (on their own electric circuit) >GIK Room Treatments. Secondary Path: Server with Audiolense RC>RPi4 or analog>Cayin iDAC6 MKII (tube mode) (XLR)>Kii Three BXT Bedroom: SBTouch to Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Setup. Living Room/Kitchen: Ropieee (RPi3b+ with touchscreen) + Schiit Modi3E to a pair of Morel Hogtalare. All absolute statements about audio are false Link to comment
jtwrace Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 If Mr. Wang thinks that PCM > 2xDSD is not in the future (Q3/4) please let us know. This is a big one for me... I took it as though it was. W10 NUC i7 (Gen 10) > Roon (Audiolense FIR) > Motu UltraLite mk5 > (4) Hypex NCore NC502MP > JBL M2 Master Reference +4 subs Watch my Podcast https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXMw_bZWBMtRWNJQfTJ38kA/videos Link to comment
MarkyRotterdam Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 Any pictures yet of the external PSU? Does it have an IEC-connection for power cords? Does it benefit from high quality power cords? Link to comment
jtwrace Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 Any pictures yet of the external PSU? Does it have an IEC-connection for power cords? Does it benefit from high quality power cords? Hopefully it has a Neutrik powerCon (which I'm sure it doesn't). W10 NUC i7 (Gen 10) > Roon (Audiolense FIR) > Motu UltraLite mk5 > (4) Hypex NCore NC502MP > JBL M2 Master Reference +4 subs Watch my Podcast https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXMw_bZWBMtRWNJQfTJ38kA/videos Link to comment
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