iFi iPurifier: What is it? How to use it? Do I want it?

[sandyk]

Hi Tranz

 

Thanks for the confirmation. It looks like this product should be capable of considerable further improvement.

So much for all the manufacturer's BS about the unbelievably low claimed noise output of it's supply, when it is used in conjunction with a cheap and nasty SMPS wallwart. The problem is likely to be made far worse if the powered USB device is used in conjunction with an amplifier that uses IEC mains earth.

 

Regards

Alex

[alcarp]

Testing an iFi iPurifier out now. Just got it and it made an immediate change to the sound. Lets give it a few days to burn in and see if it will stay.

 

Where does the iFi iPurifier fit in your audio chain? I thought you were already using a battery powered Audiophilleo.

[HumanMedia]

Where does the iFi iPurifier fit in your audio chain? I thought you were already using a battery powered Audiophilleo.

 

We'll remembered. I have a mutt of a front end. The player source is a Squeezebox Touch, USB out with a Wireworld Violet into the ifi iPurifier into the AP2. I do have PurePower supplying power to the AP but it is not in the USB chain, and is charged separately.

 

The SBT is a little RFI hothouse. I did put some low ESR caps in the SBT and was going to put one across the USB 5v, but at that stage wasn't using USB, so I lazily avoided it. Now I'm kicking myself. So the iFi iPurifier is cleaning up what is coming out of the SBT.

[fmak]

Hi Tranz

 

Thanks for the confirmation. It looks like this product should be capable of considerable further improvement.

So much for all the manufacturer's BS about the unbelievably low claimed noise output of it's supply, when it is used in conjunction with a cheap and nasty SMPS wallwart. The problem is likely to be made far worse if the powered USB device is used in conjunction with an amplifier that uses IEC mains earth.

 

Regards

Alex

 

Actually the wall wart for the iFi usb power is quite a complicated piece of construction.

However, it is inferior sounding to a good 9V linear power supply and I agree that there is

too much BS which is a feature of iFi website product promotion.

[sandyk]

Actually the wall wart for the iFi usb power is quite a complicated piece of construction.

However, it is inferior sounding to a good 9V linear power supply and I agree that there is

too much BS which is a feature of iFi website product promotion.

 

fmak

Do you know if it has the capacitor from the AC primary side to the Secondary side which results in it's output having a fairly high AC voltage , albeit at high impedance, above earth?

 

Regards

Alex

[wisnon]

Actually the wall wart for the iFi usb power is quite a complicated piece of construction.

However, it is inferior sounding to a good 9V linear power supply and I agree that there is

too much BS which is a feature of iFi website product promotion.

 

Its is NOT cheap and it will take a very good LPSU to beat it. It would sell for £25 or about $40 on its own. iFi has been hounded to sell it on its own, as a good quality SMPS is not very easy to come by and they are versatile. Of course the iUSB Power cleans it up way more than when its used alone.

 

Ifi's website does not give all the details, but I have chatted with them at length and there is more to this than meets the eye. For the price, the performance is great.

[HumanMedia]

Worth noting about the iFi USB is that there are voltage regulators in the USB unit itself which further clamp down power from the external power supply (wall wart). Note that this is the iFi USB not the iFi iPurifier.

[tranz]

Hi Tranz

 

Thanks for the confirmation. It looks like this product should be capable of considerable further improvement.

So much for all the manufacturer's BS about the unbelievably low claimed noise output of it's supply, when it is used in conjunction with a cheap and nasty SMPS wallwart. The problem is likely to be made far worse if the powered USB device is used in conjunction with an amplifier that uses IEC mains earth.

 

Regards

Alex

 

Hi Alex,

 

For a switcher I do not doubt it is a very good one, but they have a price point, multi region voltages and a small/appealing/low freight packaging restriction they have to work with. I think most of the filtering and lowering of noise happens inside the USB unit anyway.

 

Sorry to the OP, as I was talking about the iUSB and not the Purifier.

[Ben-M]

Hi Tranz

Thanks for the confirmation. It looks like this product should be capable of considerable further improvement.

So much for all the manufacturer's BS about the unbelievably low claimed noise output of it's supply, when it is used in conjunction with a cheap and nasty SMPS wallwart. The problem is likely to be made far worse if the powered USB device is used in conjunction with an amplifier that uses IEC mains earth.

 

Actually the wall wart for the iFi usb power is quite a complicated piece of construction.

However, it is inferior sounding to a good 9V linear power supply and I agree that there is

too much BS which is a feature of iFi website product promotion.

 

Its is NOT cheap and it will take a very good LPSU to beat it. It would sell for £25 or about $40 on its own. iFi has been hounded to sell it on its own, as a good quality SMPS is not very easy to come by and they are versatile. Of course the iUSB Power cleans it up way more than when its used alone.

 

Ifi's website does not give all the details, but I have chatted with them at length and there is more to this than meets the eye. For the price, the performance is great.

 

I was going to comment on this as well, but it looks like the other two guys have filled you in a bit, Sandyk. I have also discussed swapping out the SMPS on the iUSB with the iFi people and they recommended against it unless I had a SUPERB LPS on hand. They would probably say something like that anyway, though... ;-)

 

I couldn't say where, but I've read other posts out there that state the same. The SMPS with the iUSB is very good, and even some LPSs and Batteries haven't improved anything. I'll probably still take a shot at it, just to make sure I have tested what others have said about it.

 

As for the iPurifier, I picked one up, but currently have nothing to test it on, so no feedback for you guys.

[pfarthing]

Hi. I'm running almost a full iFi stack: SBT with EDO -> Mercury cable -> iUSB -> Gemini cable -> iLink -> NAD M51.

 

I'd agree with most posters, the iPurifier does a worthwhile job improving clarity and separation in the mids, plus more detail up top.

 

Haven't had much time to test, but it seems to work well both right in front of the iUSB as well as right in front of the iLink. Can anyone else try that out, too?

[sandyk]

Has anybody actually checked to see whether the iFi USB plugpack has a substantial measured AC mains component in respect to mains earth ? Many SMPS plugpacks can have as high as half the mains supply voltage at their output due to the typical high voltage, small value capacitor between the Primary (mains) and Output sides. This is what can give you a nasty tingle when you plug/unplug an SMPS device with an earthed Power Amplifier. The more the SMPS devices connected to a preamp , which is in turn connected to a Power Amplifier which is connected to IEC mains earth, the worse the "bite" and the subsequent system noise degradation. Even a single SMPS device may sometimes just meet permissible mains leakage standards.

I also noted the comment about the amount of rubbish going back into the mains supply from the plugpack , which seems likely to affect some source devices.

[alcarp]

We'll remembered. I have a mutt of a front end. The player source is a Squeezebox Touch, USB out with a Wireworld Violet into the ifi iPurifier into the AP2. I do have PurePower supplying power to the AP but it is not in the USB chain, and is charged separately.

 

The SBT is a little RFI hothouse. I did put some low ESR caps in the SBT and was going to put one across the USB 5v, but at that stage wasn't using USB, so I lazily avoided it. Now I'm kicking myself. So the iFi iPurifier is cleaning up what is coming out of the SBT.

 

I'm using a 5V DC linear power supply in place of the SBT wall wart. The LPS also has an additional USB port that I use to power the Audiophilleo. The SQ of the SBT has improved considerably.

 

Is this giving me what the iPurifier does or will I get a further improvement with it?

[sandyk]

Quote Originally Posted by HumanMedia View Post

 

"We'll remembered. I have a mutt of a front end. The player source is a Squeezebox Touch, USB out with a Wireworld Violet into the ifi iPurifier into the AP2. I do have PurePower supplying power to the AP but it is not in the USB chain, and is charged separately.

 

The SBT is a little RFI hothouse. I did put some low ESR caps in the SBT and was going to put one across the USB 5v, but at that stage wasn't using USB, so I lazily avoided it. Now I'm kicking myself. So the iFi iPurifier is cleaning up what is coming out of the SBT."

I'm using a 5V DC linear power supply in place of the SBT wall wart. The LPS also has an additional USB port that I use to power the Audiophilleo. The SQ of the SBT has improved considerably.

 

Is this giving me what the iPurifier does or will I get a further improvement with it?

 

Just bear in mind that many voltage regulators such as the LM317 etc. don't like working directly into low ESR capacitors, which can sometimes induce ringing.

[HumanMedia]

I'm using a 5V DC linear power supply in place of the SBT wall wart. The LPS also has an additional USB port that I use to power the Audiophilleo. The SQ of the SBT has improved considerably.

 

Is this giving me what the iPurifier does or will I get a further improvement with it?

 

The iPurifier also filters the data-lines.

[Ben-M]

I'm using a 5V DC linear power supply in place of the SBT wall wart. The LPS also has an additional USB port that I use to power the Audiophilleo. The SQ of the SBT has improved considerably.

 

Is this giving me what the iPurifier does or will I get a further improvement with it?

 

This is not doing what the iPurifier does at at all. What you have and what it's doing is similar to what the iUSB would do if you only used it's 5V out to power your SBT.

 

Who knows if the iPurifier will have additional benefit, but it's going to tackle a different part of the chain that you currently aren't addressing; Data Signal Noise.

[tranz]

Who knows if the iPurifier will have additional benefit, but it's going to tackle a different part of the chain that you currently aren't addressing; Data Signal Noise.

 

Hi Ben-M

 

This has piqued my interest.

 

Do you know for certain that the D+ and D- connections are filtered through the iPurifier. Specifically a filter in series with both those data lines?

 

Or is it just a ferrite bead surrounding all lines?

 

Cheers

[reverendo]

Hi. I'm running almost a full iFi stack: SBT with EDO -> Mercury cable -> iUSB -> Gemini cable -> iLink -> NAD M51.

 

I'd agree with most posters, the iPurifier does a worthwhile job improving clarity and separation in the mids, plus more detail up top.

 

Haven't had much time to test, but it seems to work well both right in front of the iUSB as well as right in front of the iLink. Can anyone else try that out, too?

OT: Are you using your SBT with the original wallwart or are you using an aftermarket one? I'm curious, since I use a Welborne PS and would be interested in finding out if the iUSB would make any difference in this setup.

best regards

[sandyk]

Hi Ben-M

 

This has piqued my interest.

 

Do you know for certain that the D+ and D- connections are filtered through the iPurifier. Specifically a filter in series with both those data lines?

 

Or is it just a ferrite bead surrounding all lines?

 

Cheers

 

Hi tranz

Not exactly forthcoming with details, are they ?

5dB isn't exactly a huge improvement either. It could be an interesting exercise to lash something up using ferrite beads as you have described. It could easily be thrown together on a small piece of veroboard between 2 USB sockets.

I may get around to trying something like this in my own +5V USB low noise Linear PSU using a modified USB cable.

Thanks for the idea. We don't really want filtering that may result in degradation of the rise and fall times of the USB waveform, do we ?

Regards

Alex

 

[One and a half]

5db reduction in noise may not be much on it's own, however if you combine the Purifier with the iUSB (as promoted by iFi), there's an interesting development.

 

You can create a path for the noise that will go around in circles from the source impedance to the load. The iUSB on its own filters out a certain amount, but with a known impedance at the Purifier end, it's possible to setup a loop, so the noise travels from the iUSB to the Purifier in a circle, and lets the real signal through. You can't do this open ended, (sorry, difficult) since DAC's input impedances vary from device to device, so the limitation on filtering is restricted and varies from installation.

 

The cable between the two forms hopefully enough damping, adding more complexities, but with a predictable fashion, rather than unknown.

[sandyk]

Given that at his point in time we don't appear to know what is actually inside the iFi Purifier, and even if it will result in an improvement in all installations, perhaps even marginally degrade some, it would appear to be pure speculation to guess in the absence of technical details how it works, other than through perhaps some creative copy writer. Does anybody know if the iFi USB SMPS wallwart has that high voltage capacitor between it's Primary and Secondary sides ? Some are reporting that despite the claimed extremely low noise figures of the +5V output,(actual measurement, or theoretical?) that battery still sounds better, and that there is a lot of rubbish getting back into the mains from the walllwart.

[Kelly]

ifi is actually pretty forthcoming in terms of measurements and rationale. I haven't looked that seriously into it, but if you want to look at some measurements then ifi has posted some on their facebook page. They talk specifically about their wall-wart and the iUSB Power. A testament to the quality of their power supply is the micro iCAN headphone amp that uses the ifi SMPS. It is a very versatile amp with three gain settings making it useful for headphones ranging from sensitive IEMs to demanding planars (discounting the HE-6.) If it were a noisy power supply then using the iCAN with IEMs would be out of the question. In actual use, however, the amp is very quiet with IEMS.

 

SMPS in general shouldn't be dismissed offhand. I believe Linn uses SMPS in their digital devices, NAD uses it in their M50 and M51 components. I think Aurender even put one in their $17k W20 that Chris just reviewed (while the boards are powered by batteries, it's very close proximity for something presumably so noisy.) I'm not saying the ifi is as good as these devices, but the iUSB Power also costs only $200. Don't dismiss it because it uses a cheap looking SMPS.

 

https://www.facebook.com/iFiAudio/notes

 

Given that at his point in time we don't appear to know what is actually inside the iFi Purifier, and even if it will result in an improvement in all installations, perhaps even marginally degrade some, it would appear to be pure speculation to guess in the absence of technical details how it works, other than through perhaps some creative copy writer. Does anybody know if the iFi USB SMPS wallwart has that high voltage capacitor between it's Primary and Secondary sides ? Some are reporting that despite the claimed extremely low noise figures of the +5V output,(actual measurement, or theoretical?) that battery still sounds better, and that there is a lot of rubbish getting back into the mains from the walllwart.

[sandyk]

Don't dismiss it because it uses a cheap looking SMPS.

 

 

I am not dismissing it because it uses a cheap looking SMPS. I am querying it because of the posted reports that I mentioned, and the fact that most SMPS wallwarts, not special purpose SMPS designed for larger devices, have that high voltage capacitor between the Primary (Mains) side and the Output side.

Nobody so far has answered the question as to whether this plugpack also has that capacitor which causes mains leakage when connected to an earthed component such as an amplifier.

I am NOT disputing that for many people it will result in a noticeable improvement in SQ.

[fmak]

fmak

Do you know if it has the capacitor from the AC primary side to the Secondary side which results in it's output having a fairly high AC voltage , albeit at high impedance, above earth?

 

Regards

Alex

 

No, the whole thing is rather complex. I opened it up after the unit failed after 24 hrs for a brief look only.

 

Thereafter, I use an ALW Superregulator which gives improved sound w/o the slight hf emphasis with the wart. A 9V LM317 supply sounded more 'rounded' and less analytical.

 

Don't bother, feed with a good 9V device and use the best.

[Ben-M]

Hi Ben-M

Do you know for certain that the D+ and D- connections are filtered through the iPurifier. Specifically a filter in series with both those data lines?

 

Or is it just a ferrite bead surrounding all lines?

 

Cheers

 

Unfortunately I can't say. I own one, but my system is literally scattered across 3 countries and 10s of thousands of kilometres right now, so I haven't even had a look at it. When I get it in hand I'll see if I can pop it open and take a look. This was also one of my concerns when I was looking into getting it.

 

Another similar device, the UltraFi Aubisque USB Filter has been confirmed to have +D & -D filtration, so I really wanted to pick one of them up. Sadly, I never got any bites with my classifieds, so I just went with the iPurifier since it was rumoured to have +D & -D filtering.

 

Does anybody know if the iFi USB SMPS wallwart has that high voltage capacitor between it's Primary and Secondary sides ?

Haha, yes, I have seen you ask this a few times now, but I don't have my iUSB right now either, so I can't give it a look. Even if there isn't any contamination/leakage, we just got another vote against the iFi SMPS, so there might be something else on the go. Hopefully we can find out later.

 

And as for not knowing what exactly is inside, that's no surprise. I don't think you can exactly say "they're not forth coming" since what they would be providing by saying what's inside would be proprietary information on their chosen manufacturing methods/components. I think what they do show us on the website and on their FB account is about as much as I would expect. Beyond there is for US to figure out, which I totally plan on doing once I get my stuff all in one place.

[Ben-M]

I may get around to trying something like this in my own +5V USB low noise Linear PSU using a modified USB cable.

 

And what the hell is THIS?! That's pretty great looking for a DIY USB isolator. I see a JLH Ripple Eater in there too. Man would I ever like to get my hands on 4 or 5 of those boards. I've been looking for some for ages. Sadly I only got wise to them after the final group-buy was finished.

 

Anyway, nice looking work. You should fill me/us in on the details :-)