Who's used the Audiophile Optimizer for Windows 2012 Server or Windows 8?

[arjan2856]

Hey all,

 

Unable to find a NUC-based machine anywhere locally, I've blazed ahead and installed Win2012Svr on my late-2012 Mac Mini - I think I must have staggered into pretty much every conceivable pitfall along the way but it's good to challenge yourself once in a while. Nothing like having a machine that wont boot to sharpen one's focus

 

One hurdle remaining before I can even think about AO, and it's my old friends the network drivers. Bootcamp did a good job retrieving everything else from Apple/M$ and the Bootcamp setup in Windows seemed to go flawlessly but Device Manager continues to tell me I dont have a network controller. We've all been through the 'rinse-repeat' cycle with driver installs and I'm going to pack it in for tonight and start afresh tomorrow - experience tells me that I'll reboot at some stage to find myself with a network controller.

 

For those contemplating this install on a mini, I hope you have a second computer with internet access and a lot more patience than I do. I also find it a little odd that we are using a heavyweight enterprise-level OS for music playback, having played around with various barebones linux distros, but Phil clearly knows his stuff so I'll just keep plugging away - especially interested in before and after listening tests via the Hugo and my cans.

 

Ned

 

Strange, i run Windows Server 2012r2 on my MacMini 2012 as well. Both the Microsoft generic drivers and the Apple Bootcamp drivers work for my ethernet controller. Just the wifi and bluetooth doesn't work with bootcamp but i'm not using those.

[BobSherman]

"I also find it a little odd that we are using a heavyweight enterprise-level OS for music playback, having played around with various barebones linux distros, but Phil clearly knows his stuff so I'll just keep plugging away"

 

I think the beauty of it is the stability of the OS. That is why Phil can get the results we are getting. Granted we are not using the all features that the OS provides, but it is the sound that matters. Even though there are very minimal linux OS's out there, I have not been able to find one that approaches the sound quality of Phil's work.

 

regards

Bob

[EuroDriver]

Even though there are very minimal linux OS's out there, I have not been able to find one that approaches the sound quality of Phil's work.

 

regards

Bob

 

which Linux versions have you tried and what hardware were the running on ?

[BobSherman]

which Linux versions have you tried and what hardware were the running on ?

 

Well,

 

Several of the PC based ones most recently Daphile. Ran them on my Caps Topanga which is an Atom CPU. Also tried different players, Volumio Rune, on arm systems, BBB, Cubox and a Utilite pro. I have not tried HQPlayer on Linux yet, but I think it would be interesting.

 

regards

Bob

[prot]

@prot, as someone who rarely posts here because I know how savage the 'debates' can be, I'm not keen on seeing this thread closed - can we please keep it civil ? Thanks.

 

Maybe you could help me here by idenyifying exactly which part of my posts was nou civil.

 

Was it asking a simple and very pertinent question?

 

Or maybe was it not accepting impossible answers as my new winserver gospel?

 

Or maybe was it not wanting to talk to a lousy jester?

 

Btw, I'm afraid those are your only answer options...cause that is all I posted.

[BobSherman]

Maybe you could help me here by idenyifying exactly which part of my posts was nou civil.

 

Was it asking a simple and very pertinent question?

 

Or maybe was it not accepting impossible answers as my new winserver gospel?

 

Or maybe was it not wanting to talk to a lousy jester?

 

Btw, I'm afraid those are your only answer options...cause that is all I posted.

 

 

How about you give us some of your findings and with what audio system? Can you tell us what operating systems and computer hardware you have done a comparison like the one you are requesting, and please give us your results???

 

thank you

[prot]

I insulted you?? That's funny.

 

Prot, we all worked very hard to get our servers to this level, and we have experienced many gains in going WS2012 and Phil's AO product set (not to mention his service). Then you come on and state that if some one can't provide you a perfect comparision by using identical machines (you scoffed at someone who responded with dual boots) and instantaneous a/b (less than 10 seconds; in that post you sarcastically talked about people's "feelings" and then asked again if any human had meaningful results ) that not only do you not want to try this project but that ALL of us are being scammed and that its all hyperbole......well that just isn't a nice forum thing to do. Do you not get that you are rude in your responses??? No other way to say it. Maybe English is not your first language, but the implications and accusations insult us, those of us who have put hundreds of hours into our music server setups. And no, none of us are going to set up two identical servers for you so you can be able to do all this vicariously.

 

Put in the work, and report back. That would be the best solution.

 

What you call "perfect comparison" I call the absolute minimum of a barely acceptable comparison. Actually I reeeaaly stretched the "acceptable" part, cause no sane person will accept such a simple, one-person test as proof.

 

An acceptable comparison would be a blind test or a/b/x with a group of people which included fans and skeptics and neutrals.

And a good comparison would be a DBT with the same group.

Perfect comparisons dont even exist, btw.

 

There is no way we could understand each other when I ask for a minimum acceptable test and you reply like you've been somehow cornered into providing some sort of "perfection". Guess we come from diff worlds. In my world we just don't believe in unicorns. Not yous, not mine, not anyones. We like tests though. Tests with humans and by humans.

 

Oh and btw, I did put in the work. It was a waste of time. And this is too.

 

Guess I'll make my own thread about winserver ... you are just as welcome there as I was here.

[Ned Kelly]

@arjan2856, I got the drivers working eventually, and it was via the method I alluded to. I suspect that my Bootcamp executable may have tried to install the network drivers in the wrong order - I also admit that wireless had me scratching my head until it dawned on me that the last thing most businesses would want on their servers was wireless access. As soon as I enabled the service everything magically came together - reading Phil's doco re AO has me wondering if I may have to go another round or two with Device Manager but for now it's all good.

[tboooe]

@arjan2856, I got the drivers working eventually, and it was via the method I alluded to. I suspect that my Bootcamp executable may have tried to install the network drivers in the wrong order - I also admit that wireless had me scratching my head until it dawned on me that the last thing most businesses would want on their servers was wireless access. As soon as I enabled the service everything magically came together - reading Phil's doco re AO has me wondering if I may have to go another round or two with Device Manager but for now it's all good.

Yes, wireless is turned off by default. I had the same issue. You have the enable the feature in server then manually start the service. This had me scratching my head too!

[carz]

Hi Phil,

Can you describe in details on your "clock modified mobo"? The details of the clock modifications and what effects it has on the audio quality.

 

Thanks

 

 

Hi

 

Yes, i had a complete FC8 here for testing including the clock-modified MoBo and PPA RAM. Results where simply amazing. Yes, you can reach us via [email protected] to get a quote for whatever PPA part you need.

 

Best,

Phil

[AudioPhil]

Phil, I'm having a couple of problems ordering from your site - Message 3005 - I'll give it another shot later in the day.

 

Hi

 

never heard of such an issue so far. At what step exactly does that happen? Can you send me a screenshot to [email protected]?

 

thanks,

Phil

[AudioPhil]

Yes, wireless is turned off by default. I had the same issue. You have the enable the feature in server then manually start the service. This had me scratching my head too!

 

Or you all guys just use my ServiceTool and use the function "Install Wireless-LAN support". This installs the needed parts of Windows Server to have WLAN support at all and configures services etc. It's all plug n play :-) (and documented very well in my PDF guide

[AudioPhil]

FYI - Server Core Mode (the best sound) is ONLY available for Standard or above, please don't get Essentials or Foundation.

 

http://download.microsoft.com/download/D/4/6/D464EB09-9999-48DC-82F0-C82DB6A4A091/Windows%20Server%202012%20R2%20Products%20and%20Editions%20Comparison.pdf

 

Download Windows Server 2012 R2 Products and Editions Comparison from Official Microsoft Download Center

 

Let's be careful before we get the license, cheers.

 

---

BTW, are you guys keeping 2012 R2 fully patched on a monthly basis as shown in the text file attached? If so, were those patches making a difference in the SQ department? Thanks.

 

ATTENTION: THIS IS NOT TRUE

 

Alldough Microsoft Documentation states otherwise, core mode is available in ALL EDITIONS. Including Standard, Datacenter, Foundation, Essentials & Storage Edition. I have tested every single edition myself before i gave out support for them in AO.

 

how can you think i would list those editions as supported and especially point out that these also work in core mode if i did not test it first? :-)

 

again, core mode and KS works in all editions if used together with AO.

[AudioPhil]

Yes Phil, pls chime in here. I haven't purchased Essentials yet so would love to hear your input before doing anything.

 

Go ahead and get R2 Essentials. Everything will work as expected, including core mode and Kernel-Stresming in core mode. Especially Essentials edition was a lot of work for me to make it for the task, but it works perfectly now (use at least AO 1.26).

 

Before you can run AO on Essentials edition you have to use ServiceTool's "Essentials Preparation mode" to strip away all the uneeded stuff an Essentials edition comes with. After this preparation mode it's basically the same like a Standard edition, just at half the price. :-)

[AudioPhil]

"I also find it a little odd that we are using a heavyweight enterprise-level OS for music playback, having played around with various barebones linux distros, but Phil clearly knows his stuff so I'll just keep plugging away"

 

I think the beauty of it is the stability of the OS. That is why Phil can get the results we are getting. Granted we are not using the all features that the OS provides, but it is the sound that matters. Even though there are very minimal linux OS's out there, I have not been able to find one that approaches the sound quality of Phil's work.

 

regards

Bob

 

It's not only the stability. The main reason is that in fact much smaller and lighter than a Client OS like XP, Win 7 or Win 8. client OS are the true heavy-weighted fat systems which are totally bloated with thousands of bells and whistles no one needs to listen to music and which destroy the sound quality by keeping the CPU allways busy.

 

A server grade OS with absolutely no Roles and Features installed is so much lighter and smaller than any Client OS ever could be. Core/minimal-server mode and AO makes it even lighter, being almost reduced to the kernel itself. Put on the plus/minus 400 specifically targeted modifications AO does for you in a few mins and thats all you need. Almost 2000 hours of research and developmemt packed into a one-click solution. :-)

[seeteeyou]

I found that Unified Write Filter (UWF) could be enabled as follows, it's better for NAND-based storage like SSDs

 

[Power Shell] Unified Write Filter Enable - Pastebin.com

[Power Shell] Unified Write Filter Install - Pastebin.com

Unified Write Filter (Standard 8)

 

---

It could be taken from Windows Embedded 8 Standard as well as Windows Embedded 8.1 Industry

 

UWFMgr Technical Reference (Standard 8)

 

Unified Write Filter Reference (Standard 8)

 

Create a Thin Client-Style Device (Standard 8)

 

http://download.microsoft.com/download/C/9/D/C9D95E84-28E7-4B52-9188-C03B8A3BDFAC/Standard_8_Toolkit/Standard_8_Toolkit.part01.exe

http://download.microsoft.com/download/C/9/D/C9D95E84-28E7-4B52-9188-C03B8A3BDFAC/Standard_8_Toolkit/Standard_8_Toolkit.part02.rar

http://download.microsoft.com/download/C/9/D/C9D95E84-28E7-4B52-9188-C03B8A3BDFAC/Standard_8_Toolkit/Standard_8_Toolkit.part03.rar

http://download.microsoft.com/download/C/9/D/C9D95E84-28E7-4B52-9188-C03B8A3BDFAC/Standard_8_Toolkit/Standard_8_Toolkit.part04.rar

http://download.microsoft.com/download/C/9/D/C9D95E84-28E7-4B52-9188-C03B8A3BDFAC/Standard_8_Toolkit/Standard_8_Toolkit.part05.rar

http://download.microsoft.com/download/C/9/D/C9D95E84-28E7-4B52-9188-C03B8A3BDFAC/Standard_8_Toolkit/Standard_8_Toolkit.part06.rar

http://download.microsoft.com/download/C/9/D/C9D95E84-28E7-4B52-9188-C03B8A3BDFAC/Standard_8_Toolkit/Standard_8_Toolkit.part07.rar

http://download.microsoft.com/download/C/9/D/C9D95E84-28E7-4B52-9188-C03B8A3BDFAC/Standard_8_Toolkit/Standard_8_Toolkit.part08.rar

http://download.microsoft.com/download/C/9/D/C9D95E84-28E7-4B52-9188-C03B8A3BDFAC/Standard_8_Toolkit/Standard_8_Toolkit.part09.rar

http://download.microsoft.com/download/C/9/D/C9D95E84-28E7-4B52-9188-C03B8A3BDFAC/Standard_8_Toolkit/Standard_8_Toolkit.part10.rar

http://download.microsoft.com/download/C/9/D/C9D95E84-28E7-4B52-9188-C03B8A3BDFAC/Standard_8_Toolkit/Standard_8_Toolkit.part11.rar

http://download.microsoft.com/download/C/9/D/C9D95E84-28E7-4B52-9188-C03B8A3BDFAC/Standard_8_Toolkit/Standard_8_Toolkit.part12.rar

 

http://download.microsoft.com/download/C/9/D/C9D95E84-28E7-4B52-9188-C03B8A3BDFAC/Standard_8_64Bit_Bootable_IBW/Standard_8_64Bit_Bootable_IBW.part01.exe

http://download.microsoft.com/download/C/9/D/C9D95E84-28E7-4B52-9188-C03B8A3BDFAC/Standard_8_64Bit_Bootable_IBW/Standard_8_64Bit_Bootable_IBW.part02.rar

http://download.microsoft.com/download/C/9/D/C9D95E84-28E7-4B52-9188-C03B8A3BDFAC/Standard_8_64Bit_Bootable_IBW/Standard_8_64Bit_Bootable_IBW.part03.rar

http://download.microsoft.com/download/C/9/D/C9D95E84-28E7-4B52-9188-C03B8A3BDFAC/Standard_8_64Bit_Bootable_IBW/Standard_8_64Bit_Bootable_IBW.part04.rar

http://download.microsoft.com/download/C/9/D/C9D95E84-28E7-4B52-9188-C03B8A3BDFAC/Standard_8_64Bit_Bootable_IBW/Standard_8_64Bit_Bootable_IBW.part05.rar

http://download.microsoft.com/download/C/9/D/C9D95E84-28E7-4B52-9188-C03B8A3BDFAC/Standard_8_64Bit_Bootable_IBW/Standard_8_64Bit_Bootable_IBW.part06.rar

http://download.microsoft.com/download/C/9/D/C9D95E84-28E7-4B52-9188-C03B8A3BDFAC/Standard_8_64Bit_Bootable_IBW/Standard_8_64Bit_Bootable_IBW.part07.rar

http://download.microsoft.com/download/C/9/D/C9D95E84-28E7-4B52-9188-C03B8A3BDFAC/Standard_8_64Bit_Bootable_IBW/Standard_8_64Bit_Bootable_IBW.part08.rar

http://download.microsoft.com/download/C/9/D/C9D95E84-28E7-4B52-9188-C03B8A3BDFAC/Standard_8_64Bit_Bootable_IBW/Standard_8_64Bit_Bootable_IBW.part09.rar

http://download.microsoft.com/download/C/9/D/C9D95E84-28E7-4B52-9188-C03B8A3BDFAC/Standard_8_64Bit_Bootable_IBW/Standard_8_64Bit_Bootable_IBW.part10.rar

http://download.microsoft.com/download/C/9/D/C9D95E84-28E7-4B52-9188-C03B8A3BDFAC/Standard_8_64Bit_Bootable_IBW/Standard_8_64Bit_Bootable_IBW.part11.rar

 

uwfmgr.exe (Industry 8.1)

 

Turn on, enable, or configure UWF on a device (Industry 8.1)

 

http://download.microsoft.com/download/A/8/1/A81C62B2-7119-4F8D-8BA7-D7D57C44F110/9600.17050.WINBLUE_REFRESH.140317-1640_X64FRE_EMBEDDEDINDUSTRY_EN-US-IR3_CEI_X64FRE_EN-US_DV9.ISO

 

 

---

However, only Windows Embedded 8 Standard is good for audio purposes because of its modular design. And they won't plan to release Windows Embedded 8.1 Standard but we could probably slipstream some binaries from 8.1 Industry into 8 Standard

 

Windows Embedded 8.1 Edition Comparison | Elbacom GmbH | Your Microsoft Windows Embedded Distributor | International

 

Keys for 180-day eval could be requested here

 

https://www.microsoft.com/windowsembedded/en-us/download-8-standard-evaluation-key.aspx

 

And they're also available with some Google searches

MPVW4-JNF4W-MGM8P-G2WYY-CWDFY

9XGG6-9NYT7-8RQY6-FP7WK-GJDFY

6NP3G-PYG4W-X288X-YHXVP-6JDFY

TGQKN-QCGY7-6K4C9-2DDJB-G28WM

 

Keys for Standard 8 Toolkit

HK4TJ-2RT2R-38TQ7-HHGD3-GQDTH

384GJ-VBT2D-FXWQR-78PD6-PKRBC

D9XDH-78JX9-2KJG8-K7CY9-KF2Q3

 

 

---

A really nice feature about Windows Embedded 8 Standard is Image Configuration Editor (ICE)

 

MS Embedded: General Windows Embedded Standard 8

 

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/jj962924(v=winembedded.81).aspx

 

Create a Thin Client-Style Device (Standard 8)

 

 

---

Similar to Server Core mode of Windows Server 2012 R2, Embedded Core of Standard 8 Module is consuming the least amount of resource while required features could be added accordingly

 

Windows Embedded 8 Standard

 

Modules (Standard 8)

 

Technical Reference (Standard 8)

 

Embedded Core for x64-Based Devices (Standard 8 Module Reference)

 

Deployment (Standard 8 Module Reference)

 

Embedded Core Settings (Standard 8 Module Reference)

 

Embedded Core (Standard 8 Module Reference)

 

Embedded Core Architectures (Standard 8 Module Reference)

 

 

---

Since that could be tested for 180 days at a time, do you guys think it might be another viable OS alternative?

[Ned Kelly]

Hi

 

never heard of such an issue so far. At what step exactly does that happen? Can you send me a screenshot to [email protected]?

 

thanks,

Phil

 

Phil,

 

I'll send you a screenshot if it happens again, but it was partly my fault - I entered the wrong CCV code for my credit card. I decided that since Paypal take their sweet time processing credit card transactions anyway - at least IME - I may as well just transfer the money into my PP account. Their email claims my money should be available by Weds, 20/8, so there's not much point in my ordering before then. Thanks for taking the time to answer my post.

 

Ned

[Allan F]

Oh and btw, I did put in the work. It was a waste of time. And this is too.

 

Guess I'll make my own thread about winserver ... you are just as welcome there as I was here.

 

From the aggressive tone of your posts, it is hard to imagine why you would expect a warm welcome here. IMO, Ted_b's response was as reasonable as could be expected under the circumstances. You may have gathered that many members of this forum actually rely on and trust what they hear, comparatively and otherwise. Evaluations based on the foregoing obviously aren't good enough for you. Good luck finding what you are looking for elsewhere.

[k6davis]

I also find it a little odd that we are using a heavyweight enterprise-level OS for music playback

 

I'd think the opposite is true. Consumer OS's like Windows 7/8 and the Mac OS are loaded to all manner of code that runs automatically and constantly that is unrelated to and detrimental to optimal music playback.

 

By contrast, WS2012, especially in Core Mode, dispenses with all of that. Phil's script optimizes WS2012 even further to ensure that it does as little as possible to interfere with serving audio to your DAC.

 

I hope you're getting close (with your install) to being able to hear what it can do.

[k6davis]

Hopefully this is a simple thing that I'm just missing.

 

Is there a way to have a program run automatically on startup when WS2012 is running optimized in core mode - with drivers & services disabled?

 

I'm trying to have the Task Manager open on startup. I've tried placing a shortcut and a batch file in the startup folder and setting up a task to run it when the computer starts, but it appears that neither of those things works (for me, at least) when the OS is stripped down.

[Eric Ventura]

Is anyone using Foobar2000 in Core Mode?

 

I'm new to Audiophile media PCs, but after a few others recommended it, I thought I'd dive in and try Server 2012 with Audiophile Optimizer - but I use Foobar2000.

 

I've got my machine built using the 2012 Server Eval, followed the Audiophile Optimizer directions, and with the automatic optimization settings I really hear no difference between this and the Windows 8.1 system this was. So I figured I'd push a bit deeper and try the Manual Config, then push even further and try the Core Mode.

 

When I get into Core Mode, I can still RDP into the server, but I can't get Foobar2000 to start. I Changed Directory to the Foobar2000 folder and ran the EXE, and it said it was missing a DLL and couldn't start (I didn't catch which one, either it closed fast or I closed it out of frustration). I *can* get Foobar to run by running the EXE when in Minimal Mode vs Core Mode.

 

So my question - what's the best way to have Foobar2000 autostart in Core Mode, and how do I get it to actually *run* in core mode?

 

Thanks in advance! I'm looking forward to see what this can do for my system!

[drez]

When I was using Foobar I used the command prompt to start Foobar, but there must be a better way.

[Eric Ventura]

When I was using Foobar I used the command prompt to start Foobar, but there must be a better way.

 

That's what I'm doing (as I type this) - but it doesn't start up in Core Mode. Listening to some Crosby, Stills, and Nash right now.

[k6davis]

That's what I'm doing (as I type this) - but it doesn't start up in Core Mode. Listening to some Crosby, Stills, and Nash right now.

 

I use both JRiver and foobar in Core Mode.

 

Actually, I use JRiver primarily and was intrigued when I found out that you can use foobar as the audio engine for JRiver. I'd hoped that I'd have JRiver's powerful UI combined with foobar's sound quality for upsampling PCM to DSD.

 

I did get everything to work without too much difficulty. I set up a JRiver "zone" for its own engine and another "zone" for foobar's. I found myself preferring JRiver's sound. Not by a huge margin but reliably. There are still few options in foobar's DSD plug-in that I need to experiment with. They might make a difference.

 

Anyway, to get back to your question Eric, I'm able to run foobar (by itself) just fine in Core Mode. I set it up in GUI mode first and everything ran the same once I removed the WS2012 GUI. I have tiny batch files that I store in a single folder so I don't have to type the full path to any of the few programs I use on my audio server. Other than that I don't do anything special to make it work.

 

I have no idea how to get things to autostart (other that JRiver) in WS2012 though! I'd love to know. I just wrote a post earlier tonight about that.

 

Keith

[seeteeyou]

Right-click cmd.exe or Command Prompt and then click Run as administrator afterwards, simply enter these lines to add both Task Manager and foobar2000 to the autostart list

 

reg add HKLM\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Run /v TaskMgr /t REG_SZ /d "C:\WINDOWS\system32\taskmgr.exe"

reg add HKLM\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Run /v foobar2000 /t REG_SZ /d "C:\Program Files (x86)\foobar2000\foobar2000.exe"

 

http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc742162.aspx

 

(Please kindly change "C:\Program Files (x86)\foobar2000\foobar2000.exe" to the corresponding folder path if that were installed in a different location.)

 

---

FYI - we could check those items were added properly under the Logon tab of Autoruns

 

http://download.sysinternals.com/files/Autoruns.zip