Wyred 4 Sound Dac2SE Upgrade Revisited & Findings -- The Best Decision Unequivocally!

[holzmann]

Can anyone comment as to how this DAC (DAC2 DSD) compares to the Naim DAC V1?

[emailtim]

Todd,

... Please do let us know. BTW: What is important to you about being keeping your Empirical Short Block in the chain after the upgrade. ...

 

From the following product definition from EA's website, the short block will not work with the DAC2-SE because it severs +5V from the PC.

 

Short Block Description:

 

" ... The Short Block severs the +5V wire in the USB cable, so devices that rely on the +5V power in the USB cable cannot use the Short Block. ... "

[REShaman]

From the following product definition from EA's website, the short block will not work with the DAC2-SE because it severs +5V from the PC.

 

Short Block Description:

 

" ... The Short Block severs the +5V wire in the USB cable, so devices that rely on the +5V power in the USB cable cannot use the Short Block. ... "

 

That was my understanding too from early on. And Steve Nugent makes certain to make that crystal clear with admonitions on point at his forum at Audio Circle and at his website. Thank you for stepping up and clarifying that.

Best,

Richard

[REShaman]

Can anyone comment as to how this DAC (DAC2 DSD) compares to the Naim DAC V1?

 

What would be a resource for you? A call to Clint Harmon at W4S? Or would they even know? Perhaps going to their (Naim) forum and posing your question and someone with experience with both can be helpful.

Best,

Richard

[Toddc2]

That was my understanding too from early on. And Steve Nugent makes certain to make that crystal clear with admonitions on point at his forum at Audio Circle and at his website. Thank you for stepping up and clarifying that.

Best,

Richard

 

Correct, but I have one of Steve's modified Short Blocks with a +5V umbilical. So it should work with my DAC2-SE, I will post on this when I know for sure.

[REShaman]

Correct, but I have one of Steve's modified Short Blocks with a +5V umbilical. So it should work with my DAC2-SE, I will post on this when I know for sure.

 

Todd,

Sorry. You mentioned that in your earlier post. Thank you for patiently clarifying for us that the modification enables.

Best,

Richard

[russellp]

The USB connection does use the direct I²S feed internally so there should be no need for an external converter. Previously, the USB interface used the same methods for streaming the signal but the interface did not perform as well sonically. After the upgrade, the new interface is superior in versatility and sonic performance.

[REShaman]

The USB connection does use the direct I²S feed internally so there should be no need for an external converter. Previously, the USB interface used the same methods for streaming the signal but the interface did not perform as well sonically. After the upgrade, the new interface is superior in versatility and sonic performance.

 

Thank you. I concur. My ears confirm your assertions. And one is free to use whatever devices that shape the SQ as desired. I am very happy with what I have configured. Of course, not having, heard Todd's system, how would I know. We can wait to find out what he finds out.

Best,

Richard

[Toddc2]

Thank you. I concur. My ears confirm your assertions. And one is free to use whatever devices that shape the SQ as desired. I am very happy with what I have configured. Of course, not having, heard Todd's system, how would I know. We can wait to find out what he finds out.

Best,

Richard

 

1. For clarity, the Short Block is not a converter, it is a passive filter. It's interesting to me how these filters can change the sonic signature of my system. I am currently using two USB filters in series: Cardas Clear USB->Short Block Filter -> Ultra Fi Aubisque -> DAC2 USB input. Last weekend I pulled out the Aubisque (thinking I might prefer the SB without it) but I immediately discovered that my system just sounds better with both filters. Trial and error.

 

2. I completely agree with russellp's post on not really needing a converter with the SE mod. I was going back and forth between getting an Off-Ramp 5 vs. getting the SE mod. To me, it just makes sense to put the I2S mod into the DAC as close to the Saber chip as possible, completely avoiding an extra box and associated cable. It would be interesting if anyone has the chance to evaluate the DAC2-SE USB input vs. a DAC2-SE fed with an OR5 I2S.

[REShaman]

1. For clarity, the Short Block is not a converter, it is a passive filter. It's interesting to me how these filters can change the sonic signature of my system. I am currently using two USB filters in series: Cardas Clear USB->Short Block Filter -> Ultra Fi Aubisque -> DAC2 USB input. Last weekend I pulled out the Aubisque (thinking I might prefer the SB without it) but I immediately discovered that my system just sounds better with both filters. Trial and error.

 

2. I completely agree with russellp's post on not really needing a converter with the SE mod. I was going back and forth between getting an Off-Ramp 5 vs. getting the SE mod. To me, it just makes sense to put the I2S mod into the DAC as close to the Saber chip as possible, completely avoiding an extra box and associated cable. It would be interesting if anyone has the chance to evaluate the DAC2-SE USB input vs. a DAC2-SE fed with an OR5 I2S.

 

Todd,

Thank you for elaborating further. Hold that last image ;>}and maybe someone who can will come forward and offer his/her assessment. I would be curious to find out as well. And will wait for your assessment given what you have available for comparisons and contrasts. Information is resource.

Best,

Richard

[emailtim]

Correct, but I have one of Steve's modified Short Blocks with a +5V umbilical. So it should work with my DAC2-SE, I will post on this when I know for sure.

 

Sorry I missed that. Keep us posted if it makes any difference or not.

[cardiackid]

1. For clarity, the Short Block is not a converter, it is a passive filter. It's interesting to me how these filters can change the sonic signature of my system. I am currently using two USB filters in series: Cardas Clear USB->Short Block Filter -> Ultra Fi Aubisque -> DAC2 USB input. Last weekend I pulled out the Aubisque (thinking I might prefer the SB without it) but I immediately discovered that my system just sounds better with both filters. Trial and error.

 

2. I completely agree with russellp's post on not really needing a converter with the SE mod. I was going back and forth between getting an Off-Ramp 5 vs. getting the SE mod. To me, it just makes sense to put the I2S mod into the DAC as close to the Saber chip as possible, completely avoiding an extra box and associated cable. It would be interesting if anyone has the chance to evaluate the DAC2-SE USB input vs. a DAC2-SE fed with an OR5 I2S.

 

 

I am sorry for not providing full information. I presumed everyone would know what I was discussing. Here is a link to the Steve Stone article and the website for CI audio. The strength of this unit is on the digital side IMO, particularly the clocking.

I think there is little difference between the sound with OR5 and this I2S bridge, both excellent and no one could tell in a blind test which is in use even over time. What will be interesting is whether the USB upgrade precludes the need for these bridges because they are both extremely well designed and implemented.

 

However, more important to me, I think the analog implementation is going to be very key in this upgrade. I say this because if these bridges to the DAC chip are comparable to the new implementation in the w4s Dac-2(se), then there is still need for improvement on the Analog side of the Dac-2. That is why I sent in my DAC-2. I believe there will be a great improvement on that side and this will bring the sound close to the optimum that a red-book CD can provide. The DSD is a bonus but unfortunately not one I can use much for my collection of music.

 

Four DACs from $699 to $3600 | The Absolute Sound

CIAUDIO TRANSIENT MKII DAC at Music Direct

[cardiackid]

I am sorry for not providing full information. I presumed everyone would know what I was discussing. Here is a link to the Steve Stone article and the website for CI audio. The strength of this unit is on the digital side IMO, particularly the clocking.

I think there is little difference between the sound with OR5 and this I2S bridge, both excellent and no one could tell in a blind test which is in use even over time. What will be interesting is whether the USB upgrade precludes the need for these bridges because they are both extremely well designed and implemented.

 

However, more important to me, I think the analog implementation is going to be very key in this upgrade. I say this because if these bridges to the DAC chip are comparable to the new implementation in the w4s Dac-2(se), then there is still need for improvement on the Analog side of the Dac-2. That is why I sent in my DAC-2. I believe there will be a great improvement on that side and this will bring the sound close to the optimum that a red-book CD can provide. The DSD is a bonus but unfortunately not one I can use much for my collection of music.

 

Four DACs from $699 to $3600 | The Absolute Sound

CIAUDIO TRANSIENT MKII DAC at Music Direct

 

CIAUDIO : Transient MKII - Asynchronous USB Converter

[REShaman]

I am sorry for not providing full information. I presumed everyone would know what I was discussing. Here is a link to the Steve Stone article and the website for CI audio. The strength of this unit is on the digital side IMO, particularly the clocking.

I think there is little difference between the sound with OR5 and this I2S bridge, both excellent and no one could tell in a blind test which is in use even over time. What will be interesting is whether the USB upgrade precludes the need for these bridges because they are both extremely well designed and implemented.

 

However, more important to me, I think the analog implementation is going to be very key in this upgrade. I say this because if these bridges to the DAC chip are comparable to the new implementation in the w4s Dac-2(se), then there is still need for improvement on the Analog side of the Dac-2. That is why I sent in my DAC-2. I believe there will be a great improvement on that side and this will bring the sound close to the optimum that a red-book CD can provide. The DSD is a bonus but unfortunately not one I can use much for my collection of music.

 

Four DACs from $699 to $3600 | The Absolute Sound

CIAUDIO TRANSIENT MKII DAC at Music Direct

 

cardiackid,

 

Thank you for following through and amplifying your remarks. You touch on considerations that many of us wrestle with, commit to and seek further change. I know I did. Many seek converters for Dacs to improve the SQ and to be able to employ software such as Audirvana Plus with Integer and DSD enabled. There have been several threads about the various S/PDIF converters with obvious differences in opinions, experiences and conclusions.

 

Starting from my return to 2 channel sound which I prefer, though I have plenty of multi channel recordings and an 11.2 channel HT, the analog side is so important to me. I looked to the Oppo BDP 83 and quickly sought the SE upgrade recognizing the analog was not there. I got flamed for those remarks at AVS Oppo owners thread. Ironically, 2 months later Oppo offered the SE upgrade which improved the analog section. It still wasn't there for me in several different ways including access to my library and the freedom to randomly select music and Hi-Res recordings with ease and facility. Changing over to computer audio was in pursuit of 2channel analog excellence and the ability to play anything in my library with ease.

 

For me, E.J.'s choice for the upgrade was the precise answer I was looking for with an emphasis on delivering the best SQ whether or not Integer mode or DSD ultimately delivers the best SQ. From my perspective Amarra Symphony has delivered an SQ that like Goldilocks is just right for me. But this is not about Amarra vs Audirvana Plus vs. ??? Or PCM vs DSD vs XYZ. It is about rendering my library and the music I love at an SQ that allows me to enjoy my library as I would want to. I know it when I hear it. So if it is good enough, that is good enough for me. Still the implementation carefully made by EJ that includes SQ enhancements rendered by his careful choices has moved the good enough a bit further along than I might have settled for. I feel lucky. Perhaps E.J.'s upgrade is not the only answer, but for me it is the one that is matching my criteria. As I am discovering, E.J. performed the upgrade with excellence in one box with The Right Stuff (to borrow a title).

 

I, too, find that my redbook CDs converted by XLD to AIFF sound excellent. And with each enhancement to my system, I rediscovered what is in my library starting with my commitment to computer audio. Then rediscovered my library with the Dac2SE upgrade. I am sure the line for enhancement will move along. In other threads there is mention of 11.2 Mhz recordings that are supposed to be revelatory. For the present time, with my upgraded Dac2SE, I am in splendid territory and comfortable and grateful to be there. It's affordable for me and highly-desirable to be able to press play and find such pleasurable listening. There may be tweaks that bring this upgrade further along.

 

I appreciate that Chris has created a forum for rich content, for many pursuits and for us to gather to help each other move that line along a continuum of excellence.

 

Best,

Richard

[holzmann]

If I want to use the DAC2 DSD as a pre with the Naim NAP 200, could anyone recommend the appropriate interconnects to do this? Would this be a good combo?

[jhstn58]

Placed my order for the upgrade and look forward to all the sonic improvements Richard ascribes to it.

[REShaman]

If I want to use the DAC2 DSD as a pre with the Naim NAP 200, could anyone recommend the appropriate interconnects to do this? Would this be a good combo?

 

holzman,

 

I do not know enough to even mislead you. Below find a jpeg of page E39 of the User Manual for several of their components. From the look of it, the amp like it takes a proprietary input cable from a Naim preamp. It makes sense for you to email Naim directly and ask them whether a W4S Dac2DSD and their NAP 200 are compatible. It does not look like it would work, but it is better coming from them. Sorry I can not be of much help to you. You might also email W4S at their website and pose your question to them, though they may refer you to Naim for a definitive answer.

 

Best,

Richard

 

[REShaman]

Placed my order for the upgrade and look forward to all the sonic improvements Richard ascribes to it.

 

Jim,

Congratulations. If you care to, can you post more about your system and what motivated you or any particulars you care to share with us. If not now, after your upgrade arrives and you've had time to make an assessment. I ask this of you, because, speaking for myself, I enjoy discovering what others are connecting their Dac to and what their criteria for making a decision to upgrade etc. Up to you, and you're welcome to elaborate when and if you please. Good fortune with the upgrade.

Best,

Richard

[Audio_ELF]

If I want to use the DAC2 DSD as a pre with the Naim NAP 200, could anyone recommend the appropriate interconnects to do this? [/Quote]

Chord sell suitable cables (IIRC) or contact a Naim dealer.

Would this be a good combo?

As I recall Naim power amps rely on filtering in the Naim pre-amps and often don't work well with non-Naim pre-amps.

 

Apart from the cost of the cable there will (should) be no harm in trying.

 

You may find you get better response over at the Naim forums - forums.naimaudio.com as I recall. http://www.pinkfishmedia.net/forum/showthread.php?t=82938 is another thread you may find useful over at Pink Fish (infact that may be a better place to ask the question rather than the official Naim forum).

 

Eloise

[REShaman]

Having spent the last two years configuring Amarra Symphony (formerly Amarra Full) to render the best SQ through my system, I stumbled on these settings for the latest builds. I realize my newly upgraded Dac2SE is changing over time with the more hours I play music through it. Please not inviting a debate about you-know-what's validity. I accept whatever one cares to discern as their assessment.

 

What I stumbled on for Preference settings was true for the original W4S Dac2. This is not carved in concrete, but I stand by what I have been listening to for months now. After I received my newly upgraded Dac2SE, I changed those earlier Preference settings on purpose. I wanted to listen to what the Dac2SE rendered with what might be typical Preference settings. I did not like what was coming through. I know: Subjective, subjective and subjective. So take the following with a subjective grain of salt and determine for yourselves.

 

For critical listening I quit select Playlist mode, cache and Full EQ. Finder and turn "off" Time Machine. The former is accomplished by going into Amarra Menu File/Extras/Quit Finder.

 

For non-critical listening (I always feel foolish making this distinction but over time I am getting used to feeling foolish.) No, really, when in Amarra mode, Preload/Album/4GB cache/24Bit/Auto Dither, I check EQ and Gain bypass. The same with Amarra mode and Preload unchecked. Since post 11.03, Follow Core Audio is no longer an issue so I leave it checked. BTW: Quitting Finder is fine for even non-critical listening ;>}. As far as cache is concerned, I also uncheck it.

 

With the above Amarra mode settings, with both the original Dac2 and now with the Dac2SE these settings are like dialing in a sharper focus and, for me and my discernment, these settings remove a layer of noise or blurring or a sound less refined. Like slowly turning the dial of a tuner and the signal snaps into alignment and the definition is finer and more distinct without losing bloom, rich sound, imaging depth & width of soundstage such that the double bass, drums, cymbals, piano, for instance when Bill Evans's The Complete Village Vanguard Recordings 1961 in HDCD Disc 1 or any of the other 2 discs is playing I can easily tell what my settings are. Sonic Studio's Full EQ is highly praised when reviewed. I am not disputing whether or not that is so. I am merely relating what I experienced fiddling with the Preference settings for the various builds I have had the privilege to listen to.

 

If you have other findings, I welcome them here at this thread in keeping with supporting each other to get the best out of their hardware, software and dinner ware. In case Musicophile is ready to inquire, this is assessed without the benefit of a nearby martini. Feel free to contribute what makes your Dac2SE and player sound better together.

 

Enjoying the music. Now I am pouring a martini.

 

Best,

Richard

[REShaman]

Chord sell suitable cables (IIRC) or contact a Naim dealer.

 

As I recall Naim power amps rely on filtering in the Naim pre-amps and often don't work well with non-Naim pre-amps.

 

Apart from the cost of the cable there will (should) be no harm in trying.

 

You may find you get better response over at the Naim forums - forums.naimaudio.com as I recall. Naim power/pre amps with other brands - pink fish media is another thread you may find useful over at Pink Fish (infact that may be a better place to ask the question rather than the official Naim forum).

 

Eloise

 

Thank you, Eloise.

Best,

Richard

[Melvin]

Now I want a martini .. or a Manhattan.

[REShaman]

Now I want a martini .. or a Manhattan.

 

One will cost you about $16, the other $24. Wyred 4 Sound, I am guessing here, recommends that you do not drink and spin LPs unless you designate a LP spinner. And do not forget to buckle up. Oy...

Richard

PS

Something's different ;>}

[longbowbbs]

Very interesting thread, Richard. I will have to send in the DAC-2 when I take 2 weeks for the Scout Jamboree this summer. I'll be ready to relax after getting home from that event.

 

Eric

[emailtim]

FWIW, W4S's DAC2 upgrade turnaround times have been pretty quick.